i think his argument is that ur gear saved ur life
technically u are right you are killing them

what logi is sayin is that ur gear allows u to play sloppy and careless vs lower tier gear and get away with it
i.e. no risk to u or very little

lets take ur argument and take it down my lane a bit
i invest 2M+ into my suryas by ur logic anything but a proto forge/swarms or another marauder tank shouldnt be able to scratch me because im riskin more and he isnt "geared" to fight me
ur whole point on gear doesnt just pertain to dropsuits btw

also lets look at this another way
ur corp is currently the best on the game dont think anyone questions that, when u want only proto gear to stand a chance then the corp that keeps winning (urs in this case) can continuously fund these without problem which then leaves no one to challenge u or very little. Your idea kills off any competition for ur corp or at least decreases it drastically.

I want FW and Nullsec to actually be populated, if a brave corp like Mike said wants to take on a proto gear corp with adv gear they should have a fighting chance....obv if they are equally skilled its gonna come down to gear but if the adv gear corp has drastically superior tactics and skill then why should they be deemed to lose automatically? Dont u actually want competition and lots of it?

Also as mike said if a team is zergin u with standard gear u can also scale back down urself u know...if ur better FPS wise no need to rock proto vs a lower tier gear team and like Mike said if a team comes at u with **** gear and ur in better gear and they are terrible or equally skilled fps wise they will be destroyed still.


This game is suppose to be about choices ur taking away choices by only wanting ppl to play by ur rules.
But anyway we've been back an forth on this numerous times now
MMO personality vs FPS personality just not gonna see eye to eye on how big an advantage should gear give u.


PS: also what happens when a corp gets rich enough and cant get any fights in FW and Null against other proto gear...they bring their buffed gear into hisec to farm noobs next....and since its buffed they will prob not die....at least not against infantry which means hisec now becomes a farming ground with no risk involved.

buff militia was dumb
and fyi dubbs technically the standard and adv still doesnt have the same dmg

I already stated the percentage difference in the standard to the proto for you in an earlier post and in the thread you started right after right after chromosome came out. I am sorry you don't like the difference but don't worry it will still probably be tweaked be it by price or by damage but it will still be changed.

Also you still have a thing about calling it an AR nerf when it was all light weapons across build, and maybe all weapons period but I am not sure don't run a heavy to even look at their weapons.

So essentially there is no reason for you to bring any ISK to a match.

This game is trash.

sigh dubbs u werent here from the BEGINNING
im not talkin about codex and neither is telc
we are referring to BEFORE codex when each tier of dropsuits not only had more slots and cpu and pg but also an increase in base health which combined with skills and ability to use more higher end gear made for higher tier gear vs lower tier to be a joke

i never agreed with the dmg nerfs now altho it isnt that big of a difference ppl just QQ too much
GEK lost 0.5 pts of dmg OMG IM CRIPPLED! ppl srs?
buffin standard and militia wasnt warranted tbh could of stayed at 30 and the others 32.5 and 34.1

Militia is NOT on the same level as intended. It's just not completely garbage now. YDUBBS, if you and I are of equal level right now, and you use proto gear, and I use militia gear, you will kill me 4/5 times. In early builds, I you were better than me, and using militia gear, all I had to do was use my proto fit, and I would kill you 4/5 times. Skill played no part before, now it does.

6 out of 12 the standard does 186, the GEK does 195. The 12 out 12 is standard do 372, the Gek does 390.

This is real low not even 10 percent, never did this math was never asked or referenced to. This should be looked at maybe take the standard back down to where it was. I agree with you that is horrible.

I am curious to see the difference with mod/skills and how it changes since all do that.

No risk, no reward. If you risk a high end fit, you will have an advantage. This will net you a win against players of equal or lesser skill than you. It will not BUY you a win. You want fits to win matches, I want skill to win matches.
As I mentioned before, look at your corp mate's spreadsheet. Proto fits (the entire fit, not just weapons) still have a BIG advantage against milita fits. It's just not a god-mode like it was in prior builds.

Clearly, you and I don't agree on this. I'm done debating. You've made your point and I've made mine.

I skipped the majority of this trash. I can't bear to hear the "I'm paying more money than everyone else so I should always win" QQ.

As someone said earlier, skill eats gear but gear is the tie breaker. This is not entirely true, but pretty close. Skill eats gear, skill point total and allocation counterbalances skill to an extent, and gear is the tie breaker.

Let me put it this way:

Weaponry Lvl. 5 = +10% damage
AR Proficiency Lvl. 5 = +15% damage

Duvolle - Damage 34.1 - RoF 750 - Acc 57.2

Gek-38 - Damage 32.5 - RoF 750 - Acc 56.6

"Exile" AR - Damage 31 - RoF 750 - Acc 56


Now, if you have skilled up nothing with the basic AR proficiency (the weapon we hear the QQ the most about) or weaponry you are doing 750 RPM x 31 damage per bullet/60 seconds or 387.5 damage per second.

With both skilled up, you are looking at 31 damage per bullet + 25% x 750 RPM/60 seconds or 484.375 Damage per second

NOW, with a proto weapon, say the Duvolle, let's do that math again. 34.1 damage per bullet + 25% x 750 RPM/60 seconds is 532.8125 Damage per second.

That's a difference of 48.4375 damage per second between a Duvolle and a basic at max level.

That's a difference of 145.3125 damage per second from a person with no skills in damage compared to a person maxed out on AR proficiency

And remember that is DAMAGE PER SECOND

Lastly, Duvolle with no skill Vs. Duvolle with skill:

106.5625 DAMAGE PER SECOND

145.3125 damage per second in your favor and you think spending the time to get those higher leveled rifles doesn't matter? Grow up and learn some math scrubs.

TL;DR: If you skill up, you get much better odds with better gear than if you don't. 145.3125 damage per second difference between no skill Basic AR and all skill Proto AR. Learn math and quit QQing.

Though, I can't say that I've ever seen a member of RND not using an ISK GEK or the Killswitch in any game I've been in so I'm not sure what the issue is for you YDUBBS? You do just fine from a KDR perspective and if you're losing too much ISK because of it then you might want to re-evaluate the cost of your fits versus the ISK reward.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that we are currently being rewarded for losing. That will not be the case, per CCP, once you start picking up player issued contracts. Just like how it is for beta corp battles. So, playing with house money when it counts isn't really going to be an option unless you are just testing your abilities as a corp to operate in lower gear variants.

Look at it like this:

Imperfects put up a 20mil ISK contract that PFBHz picks up. The reward would currently be approx 39mil ISK (subtracting the contract fee). If Imperfects fit STD gear and PFBHz fits all proto and PFBHz wins.....Imperfects are, in fact, out that $20mil and whatever it cost to replace your gear. You go home with no ISK and minus a bunch of gear. To me that seems like a pretty good reason to not show up in STD gear.


To Telc:

I'm with you though....I despise the fact that I don't feel like it's worth using my shiny stuff. The real issue is that during beta we just don't have anything to really play for other than the ISK, SP grind (that, by the way, will be repeated), and refining tactics.


Good Discussion with valid arguments on both sides. "Please sir, may I have more"

Spoken like someone who has no idea what he's talking about. Did my middle school level math confuse you poor fools? It's not a comparison of extremes.

Put into simple terms, if you don't like how small the gap is between proto and basic weapons, then skill up and the gap is larger. Quit QQing about the guns being so close together when you can personally change that in your own skill list.

Skills ARE the balance between skill and gear. Good AR's are only given full potential when given given full skills. There is a larger gap between a basic at max level and a proto at max level than a basic at minimum level and a proto at minimum level.


If you ignore this you are ignoring the entire system set up in this game and only you are to blame for not knowing the difference. And then you inevitably fail since you can't wrap your head around basic math.

If you have a Duvolle but no weapon damage skills and face off against someone running a basic with maxed weapon damage skills, you are at a disadvantage. And it's your own fault for it.

ahahhahhaha look at the little moron rage. you obviously have no grip on reality(since when does having a degree mean **** beyond better pay) so I doubt you have any better grip on this game, and given that you are such a bitchy little troll, my guess is that you are pissed of that you cant buy your victories any more, sad sad skill-less little man.