You are in denial.

The gear isn't killing you, we are.

So, you think that an ADV corp with Bseries suits and GEKs with "drastically" superior skills and tactics would not beat a corp with 100% proto gear (with Codex suit & gun stats)??

Why are you comparing the Duvolle with the militia? The issue is, let's say, the Exile & the GEK. They shouldn't be so close to each other in damage.

You're comparing extremes to suit your opinion but ignoring where the real problem is.

this silly argument again, skill is greater than gear unless both parties are just standing still and shooting at each other, the gear vs skill argument is usually put forward by people that can't handle the idea that they aren't number 1.

I have no trouble killing VK suits in my type II, killing a squad of VK suits on the other hand is quite a different story, as it should be, been getting between 20-30 kills per match in those HK ambush games using almost entirely Type II suits with a gek.

The bottom line is that this isn't an easy balance and there are many more variables than 2 mercs simply standing 5 meters from each other in open space with gear variants.

I'm not speaking for Mike but I think his point about this essentially being High Sec is good one. I posted a thread called "The Learning Cliff" pre Codex and suggested that there needs to be some kind of balance for new players. Whether that is a gear restriction in High Sec matches or simply an area where new players can get their feet wet without seasoned vets in Proto gear pubstomping is very important to the success of this game.

There does need to be a hook for the new player. They must have some kind of success or at least feel like there is a chance they will be able to before they are 6 months old. For this reason alone, I do think the recent change in damage levels between weapons is a good thing.

That being said....I, much like Telc, hate the fact that I have spent millions of SP to get into Proto gear that I rarely, if ever, use. The risk just isn't currently worth the reward....at least in my opinion.

Though, I can't say that I've ever seen a member of RND not using an ISK GEK or the Killswitch in any game I've been in so I'm not sure what the issue is for you YDUBBS? You do just fine from a KDR perspective and if you're losing too much ISK because of it then you might want to re-evaluate the cost of your fits versus the ISK reward.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that we are currently being rewarded for losing. That will not be the case, per CCP, once you start picking up player issued contracts. Just like how it is for beta corp battles. So, playing with house money when it counts isn't really going to be an option unless you are just testing your abilities as a corp to operate in lower gear variants.

Look at it like this:

Imperfects put up a 20mil ISK contract that PFBHz picks up. The reward would currently be approx 39mil ISK (subtracting the contract fee). If Imperfects fit STD gear and PFBHz fits all proto and PFBHz wins.....Imperfects are, in fact, out that $20mil and whatever it cost to replace your gear. You go home with no ISK and minus a bunch of gear. To me that seems like a pretty good reason to not show up in STD gear.


To Telc:

I'm with you though....I despise the fact that I don't feel like it's worth using my shiny stuff. The real issue is that during beta we just don't have anything to really play for other than the ISK, SP grind (that, by the way, will be repeated), and refining tactics.


Good Discussion with valid arguments on both sides. "Please sir, may I have more"