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KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
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Posted - 2012.12.28 09:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well as sir KINGspamsalot I have some input on this. I've yet to see any other player use the nades as much, or indeed as well aimed as me. Not trying to brag or anything, I'm merely stating the biased facts... I haven't seen many other players go 20+ nade kills in several games.
First of, the nade mechanics was in the previous build the best I've ever seen in any game, by a huge margin. Not even KZ2 nades had the same level of feel and skill required timeing and aiming. You **** it, and four seconds later it blows. You then had your 1-3 seconds holding time while adjusting the aim by straifing, elevating and so on. I could make my nades blow where and when I wanted to. Especially nice when throwing them uphill where a miss would result in a massive over shoot. I am dissapointed that CCP changed the one thing they actually nailed perfectly in my opinion. Many have claimed, even CCP I believe that there was some kind of inconsistency to the throwing arch. I never experienced that in the previous build and all I can say is "get gud scrub".
The new mechanics are iffy. The supposedly "be held longer for longer delay" thingy is in my experience non existent. And probably a stupid idea in the first place. I've tested this in some of the many games I've played without enemies. I seriously dislike the "tap for dropping a nade on the ground to blow up after 2 seconds" mechanics. It just leads to people spaming them everywhere in CQC without having the need to **** them.
There is a huge difference in the required skill and timeing with the two mechanics. Getting an instantly thrown nade at your feet that blows after two seconds is almost impossible to dodge, especially if you have to change your direction of movement. Previously we had almost 4 seconds to dodge un-cocked nades like that. The same goes for a coked nade that instantly blows in your face, almost like a direct hit nade. When I have cocked my nade and held it for 3 seconds, dodging and getting into position, then releasing it blowing in your face, I sort of deserve that kill. Its not that easy, it certaily takes some practice. Its also quite dangerous...
This dual throwing method thingy they've implemented is not working in my opinion. If you want a nade kill, then wait the required 4 seconds like everyone else and more skill and precision is required. The current spam situation is not a good thing for the game in general in my opinion.
The iffy arch is also a big problem for me. Its like my merc constantly want to throw them down to the ground. The arch itself seems too steep and unnatural, it doesn't look like a thrown object, it looks like it has some kind of jet engine blowing it down to the ground. I am however geting used to it but I could be a lot more precise with them before this change, especially at a distance.
Having the "standard" locus nades working almost like a direct hit nade, and as a cockable nade at the same time is a fail in my opinion. I actually prefer the Locus nades compared to the direct hit nades. They are only useful at relatively close range and with more or less direct sight of your target. The "normal" nades can be use in CQC, they can be thrown around corners, they can be spammed over a hiltopp and so on. So why don't you bring back the direct hit nades in a somewhat nerfed state?
The Tukkers had 7.2 m blast radius and did 600 damage, they're both too much. Even the smaller merc pack nades the "Fused Locus nades" with its 6m blast radius and 400 damage is borderllining OP. Personally I would suggest a direct hit nade with 400 damage, not 600 and 4 m blast radius not the first 7.2 or the later 2.5 that we had for a brief period on the Tukkers. I had a clanmate try them out and I could several times see with my own eyes him hitting the target dead on without doing any damage.
And lastly I'd like the nades to do the damage it says they're supposed to do. I have been insta killed severall times with militia Locus nades that does 400 damage, why does it kill my 532 HP suit? Were they all "headshots"?
And lastly; sorry for the long post, I have even more to say but I try to keep it as short as i can while still saying the things I want to say. .
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KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 09:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Enji Elric wrote:Mr. Babar, do people really care that much about grenades? I'm just tired of killing someone and watching them die seeing the +50 Then they have a grenade come out of their dead arms landing at my feet and killing me...' oh yea and this MAG 2
The short answer is yes, at least I do.
I don't think I would mind really if it hadn't been for the previous brilliant mechanics in this game. Compared to MAG where I come from, well, I never used them in MAG. I stuck with the AR or SMG or Sniper, watch just about any MAG wid there is with nades being thrown and you'll see even the very best of players more or less just spamming them at long range. Here we had a system that required skill and training, perhaps thats why so few used them intelligently in this beta.
And what does the MAG2 controller have to do with this? |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 09:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
sed them intelligently in this beta.
And what does the MAG2 controller have to do with this?[/quote]
I'm trolling with the MAG 2 bit... there are still people looking for MAG 2 ....
MAG you could stand from the bottom of valor's C and launch grenades into the top window from a 87 degree incline with almost no trouble at all...
grenades in mag flew too high went too far and compared to ACTUAL grenades were garbage.
and that was very similar to last build..... you could get grenades at peoples feet and it felt like you migth as well have just turned an ran
now the grenade actually kills actually does decent.
I just dont like the lag between hitting the button and the thing leaving my hand
EDIT or the lag which shows them dying and then throwing the grenade[/quote]
Not entirely sure what you mean here:
and that was very similar to last build..... you could get grenades at peoples feet and it felt like you migth as well have just turned an ran
now the grenade actually kills actually does decent.
Do you mean that the Dust nades last build wasn't working or that the mechanics weren't good enough?
With this I don't agree, its harder to get accurate throws this build than the last, as mentioned before. It just seems to me that no one actually bothered to train with them. Very few people coked them, throwing a nade that lies on the floor for 3 seconfds before blowing is really easy to dodge... |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 16:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Wakko03 wrote:Now you are just being confusing.
And I thought we were all supposed to run around in tanks and dropships.......
Well, point of fact, this whole thread is about what you can do with grenades in the future.
Nope not me, I usually live thru militia grenades thrown near me, and I needed the punch only prototype AV can provide against some of the best tankers in the game... so my grenades are either advanced or proto.
Again you bring up your annoyance with "anyone" throwing them at your feet and killing you....how is this not a valid tactic, was the enemy charging at the grenade thrower like an enraged bull, did their weapons range get reduced so much that they have to be at less than grenade throwing range in order to kill. Man,do I hate to agree with you,but you are absolutely right.People are crying over tactics and not function.grenade mechanics were totally broken in previous builds,and finally then did something to make them work better. The one and only argument that can be made for grenades are it seem that the blast raduis seems too wide.
Please elaborate the "totally broken in previous builds" part, what was wrong with them?
In my experience, at least in the previous build, I had much more control of the aim and they were a lot more consistent. The main problem was the way most people used them, they tapped L2 and threw them with a 4 second explosion delay, very few actually cooked them and calculated the time/trajectory/distance. Many couldn't aim the nades properly and people stopped using them smartly, it was more a matter of spamming them over a hilltop for a lucky kill.
I'm pretty sure you would find the previous nade mechanics good with a little effort put into training. And what I really mean is that you're probably a scrub who couldn't figure the nades' behavior out. In any chase the fault is yours, last builds nade mechanics were the best I've ever had in any game. Get gud, don't blame the game.
As a tactic for getting a last kill before dying, I don't really care, it comes pretty far down my list of cheesy tactics in ths beta. My main concern is the, and I say it proudly, dumbing down of the nade mechanics. When anyone can tap L2 for a short range of a 2 second timed dropped explosions, it gets too easy. I fear the effect will be a too nade heavy game. Do we really want a game with everybody spamming nades like bomberman in cqc as a norm? I don't think so.
Using a cooked nade in cqc is difficult and takes a lot of skill. When cooking it behind cover, waiting for 1.5 seconds, then darting out and place them well in an enemys face, I salute that player for playing smart and precise. Having a guy just tapping L2 repetdly spamming his nades all over the place in cqc, like so many do now, makes the game too nade heavy and slightly booring in my opinion.
I don't expect a change though, CCP like making a lot of stuff too easy, why not this?
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