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NAV HIV
The Generals
151
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
When the actual game comes out or may be in the next build I'd like to have an option to vote Off a squad leader who is inactive, does not have a mic and is total utter junk! I'd also like to able to shoot a Squad leader who has a mic (you can hear his background melodrama) but decides to do nothing with it. I know all the points don't really matter in a Beta. But i'd be looking for the squad leader when the game is fully released. Either use the perks or drop the leadership.
Also it doesn't help if you try to cap an objective with a sniper rifle in hand. Its a noble gesture, but a also very useless. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 13:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Find a new squad
Roll on your own
Roll with your clan/friends
Options use em |
JW v Weingarten
SyNergy Gaming
300
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 14:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just play with corp mates? |
NAV HIV
The Generals
151
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Find a new squad
Roll on your own
Roll with your clan/friends
Options use em
I know about that, But you know what i'm saying right?
Sometimes when no one's around and you are on a team full of people like that... When are they gonna use them? |
NAV HIV
The Generals
151
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
JW v Weingarten wrote:Just play with corp mates?
Yeah but that limits the options of learning new tactics and make friends. |
Jeremiah ambromot
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
I know until recently I did not know how to pull up the commands other than through the map and that is such a pain. My corp mates showed me how but until then I always passed squad leadership to another. What should happen is a leader vote for radomes or self nomination followed by radome choose among ties or if no one votes. |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
134
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
I play alot as a random.... nobody has a MIC.... on the right channel.
CCP needs to have the training mode for Leadership that we all wanted for MAG. They should only be SL after completing it. Force a player to set a rally, capture, defend, attack order and then give them the precison strike to call down. Then again only groups seem to follow orders, the randoms do whatever it is randoms do that gets them killed so much.
The worst was when I had my best game, hacked close to 18 installations (capture points for the null cannons, resupply points, and cru's and maybe a turret or 2) and the squad I was on had gotten the SL 2 precision strikes that they failed to call in... which might have helped us hold a letter long enough to win... the game came down to 1 bar on their MCC and they only had 10 clones left. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Find a new squad
Roll on your own
Roll with your clan/friends
Options use em I know about that, But you know what i'm saying right? Sometimes when no one's around and you are on a team full of people like that... When are they gonna use them?
Yea but if im on my own and playing i generally dont give a crap anyways and run around being a micless noob and doing what i want |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 19:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:I play alot as a random.... nobody has a MIC.... on the right channel.
CCP needs to have the training mode for Leadership that we all wanted for MAG. They should only be SL after completing it. Force a player to set a rally, capture, defend, attack order and then give them the precison strike to call down. Then again only groups seem to follow orders, the randoms do whatever it is randoms do that gets them killed so much.
The worst was when I had my best game, hacked close to 18 installations (capture points for the null cannons, resupply points, and cru's and maybe a turret or 2) and the squad I was on had gotten the SL 2 precision strikes that they failed to call in... which might have helped us hold a letter long enough to win... the game came down to 1 bar on their MCC and they only had 10 clones left.
This. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2012.12.24 19:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
We could also reassign squad leaders to someone with a more appropriate role.
I noticed dropship pilots and snipers seem to be the most effective at coordinating squads, mostly because they have a bird's eye view of the whole place. |
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Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
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Posted - 2012.12.24 20:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:We could also reassign squad leaders to someone with a more appropriate role.
I noticed dropship pilots and snipers seem to be the most effective at coordinating squads, mostly because they have a bird's eye view of the whole place.
Agreed. |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2012.12.24 21:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
[waiting for move to feedback/requests]
Squad leadership should become "vulnerable" after 60 seconds with no orders given. When vulnerable, any other squad member can "grab" the squad leadership; the current leader gets a countdown timer and has 30 seconds to issue an order or leadership switches. |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
172
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Posted - 2012.12.24 21:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
That's kind of a horrible idea. Sometimes there is no command to give out except fight. Maybe you can put a defend order but it doesn't make it complete.
I believe every time a new player is made squad leader they should be given a page of information on how to use their role.
I also believe that the amount of warpoints should determine who is better to be leader but I can't help but think that would mess up the system. |
Makuta Miserix
Better Hide R Die
33
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Posted - 2012.12.24 22:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jeremiah ambromot wrote:I know until recently I did not know how to pull up the commands other than through the map and that is such a pain. My corp mates showed me how but until then I always passed squad leadership to another. What should happen is a leader vote for radomes or self nomination followed by radome choose among ties or if no one votes.
You can do it without the map??? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 22:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
I rather not waste time on a semi-useless feature. I rather have indication you are the squad leader though in random pubs. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 22:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:That's kind of a horrible idea. Sometimes there is no command to give out except fight. Maybe you can put a defend order but it doesn't make it complete. This is the biggest problem with most blueberries. They think the only thing to do is charge directly at the biggest clump of reds they can find.
Squad leaders can at least use the rally command to try telling their squad where to attack from An example of this was an ashland ambush where my team was getting slaughtered; I set the rally point on one of the ladders to give my squad the hint that we should attack from above instead of charging the supply depot. Ofc, the blueberries never listened to me, but I sat up there for the rest of the game racking up kills while never even getting shot. |
eagandale4114
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
14
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Posted - 2012.12.24 23:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Makuta Miserix wrote:Jeremiah ambromot wrote:I know until recently I did not know how to pull up the commands other than through the map and that is such a pain. My corp mates showed me how but until then I always passed squad leadership to another. What should happen is a leader vote for radomes or self nomination followed by radome choose among ties or if no one votes. You can do it without the map??? Press and hold r2 then press r3. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
143
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 04:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
When friendly fire is turned on you will be able to kill him |
NAV HIV
The Generals
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 15:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rugman91 wrote:When friendly fire is turned on you will be able to kill him
Waiting for it |
NAV HIV
The Generals
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 15:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
It is sometimes very difficult to show people how to use the command menu. With the new changes its a bit difficult to Frago objectives when you are are running. it was easier on the last tbh |
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
172
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Posted - 2012.12.25 16:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:That's kind of a horrible idea. Sometimes there is no command to give out except fight. Maybe you can put a defend order but it doesn't make it complete. This is the biggest problem with most blueberries. They think the only thing to do is charge directly at the biggest clump of reds they can find. Squad leaders can at least use the rally command to try telling their squad where to attack from An example of this was an ashland ambush where my team was getting slaughtered; I set the rally point on one of the ladders to give my squad the hint that we should attack from above instead of charging the supply depot. Ofc, the blueberries never listened to me, but I sat up there for the rest of the game racking up kills while never even getting shot.
*Shrugs* I find no need to really get that deep in tactical thinking when we're fighting in pubs with random spawn points (Yes we can have droplinks but 80 percent of the team will use the default spawning system) and no symbol objectives for blueberries/randoms to rally together for. :I Even then those newbs don't know how to listen. Sure, if you're practicing with your corporation or group of friends, you can pull together smooth tactics that will help dominate but other than these terms really plotting and thinking can be kinda useless.
The best you can do in Ambush with randoms is rally them together but like i said before newbs don't know how to listen.
-
After giving some thought to it we could fix this in two ways:
1. Keep the choosing of squad leaders random in pubs and add in an option for the other subordinates to vote for someone else in the squad to take the place of the leader if they're incompetent.
2. Take out the random pick for squad leader and instead do a system where the players with the most WP is chosen to be squad leader. I believe WP is a good indicator of the tactical know-how of a player or in some cases their dedication to their team, making this a good way of choosing a leader. Also add in the option to appoint another leader for the subordinates if they're incompetent.
Giving the subordinates the ability to choose their leader promotes critical thinking for the battlefield. If a newbie see's that there is a vote going on for squad leader they'll assume that this position actually holds some power. When they're squad leader one day they'll try to do a good job so that they don't get kicked out and hold this position.
It'll be a very simple voting system with a player only needing TWO votes for the switching of rankings to happen.
What happens when there is only one other player in your squad? There is no ability to vote for leader. The voting ability goes active when there are two or more subordinates. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 19:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:That's kind of a horrible idea. Sometimes there is no command to give out except fight. Maybe you can put a defend order but it doesn't make it complete. This is the biggest problem with most blueberries. They think the only thing to do is charge directly at the biggest clump of reds they can find. Squad leaders can at least use the rally command to try telling their squad where to attack from An example of this was an ashland ambush where my team was getting slaughtered; I set the rally point on one of the ladders to give my squad the hint that we should attack from above instead of charging the supply depot. Ofc, the blueberries never listened to me, but I sat up there for the rest of the game racking up kills while never even getting shot. *Shrugs* I find no need to really get that deep in tactical thinking when we're fighting in pubs with random spawn points (Yes we can have droplinks but 80 percent of the team will use the default spawning system) and no symbol objectives for blueberries/randoms to rally together for. :I Even then those newbs don't know how to listen. Sure, if you're practicing with your corporation or group of friends, you can pull together smooth tactics that will help dominate but other than these terms really plotting and thinking can be kinda useless. The best you can do in Ambush with randoms is rally them together but like i said before newbs don't know how to listen. - After giving some thought to it we could fix this in two ways: 1. Keep the choosing of squad leaders random in pubs and add in an option for the other subordinates to vote for someone else in the squad to take the place of the leader if they're incompetent. 2. Take out the random pick for squad leader and instead do a system where the players with the most WP is chosen to be squad leader. I believe WP is a good indicator of the tactical know-how of a player or in some cases their dedication to their team, making this a good way of choosing a leader. Also add in the option to appoint another leader for the subordinates if they're incompetent. Giving the subordinates the ability to choose their leader promotes critical thinking for the battlefield. If a newbie see's that there is a vote going on for squad leader they'll assume that this position actually holds some power. When they're squad leader one day they'll try to do a good job so that they don't get kicked out and hold this position. It'll be a very simple voting system with a player only needing TWO votes for the switching of rankings to happen. What happens when there is only one other player in your squad? There is no ability to vote for leader. The voting ability goes active when there are two or more subordinates.
1. Agreed 2. Cant really agree with the WP system tbh
a. Snipers and tankers can get more WP and most of the time dont even bother about the objectives or frago points for others. Besides you cant even call in an Orbital strike if you are in the tank, which in my opinion is very stupid. you need a safe place to call in an Orbital strike. But, that's another topic.
b. Sometimes WP is not an actual indicator of tactics. Good shooters mostly go for kills and are busy shooting people most of the time. They sometimes dont even realize that they have to use the commands.
c. It wont be fair to new players. Their WP wont be anywhere near other players. When i first started this game i didnt know that i was the squad leader. But someone from the squad pointed that out and took their own time to teach me how to use the Squad leader options. (But i had my Mic on)
All these are little things that dont need the Dev's to fix. This is common sense, which seems to lack here quite often. Corps and players should make an effort to make the Comm work better. The options are there, we have to start using them.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 15:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:I play alot as a random.... nobody has a MIC.... on the right channel.
CCP needs to have the training mode for Leadership that we all wanted for MAG. They should only be SL after completing it. Force a player to set a rally, capture, defend, attack order and then give them the precison strike to call down. Then again only groups seem to follow orders, the randoms do whatever it is randoms do that gets them killed so much.
The worst was when I had my best game, hacked close to 18 installations (capture points for the null cannons, resupply points, and cru's and maybe a turret or 2) and the squad I was on had gotten the SL 2 precision strikes that they failed to call in... which might have helped us hold a letter long enough to win... the game came down to 1 bar on their MCC and they only had 10 clones left.
Happened quite a few times |
Firestorm Zulu
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 16:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Find a new squad
Roll on your own
Roll with your clan/friends
Options use em What if someone in your corp accidentally takes the squad leader control and went afk in the middle of a fight due to real life issues? A mechanism should be in place to remove the sqd leader. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 16:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Firestorm Zulu wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Find a new squad
Roll on your own
Roll with your clan/friends
Options use em What if someone in your corp accidentally takes the squad leader control and went afk in the middle of a fight due to real life issues? A mechanism should be in place to remove the sqd leader.
Its becoming a issue. Hope they do something about it |
Tenchu-13
What The French
76
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 17:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
High WP =/= Good leadership capabilities
1- WP doesn't indicate anything about someones abilities as a squatleader. Most people with high WP are directly engaged i close combat... and therefor actually have NO vision whatsoever about what is happening on the rest of the battlefield. Yes they have more experience playing the game, but that's it. Also being good at shooting someone doesn't make you a good strategist/leader...
2- A voting-system is proned to be abused if multiple corpmembers get in a squat with some random blue (public match). A voting system could only be incorporated if there would be some sort of 'veto' option by the SL. (as in a timer for initial command, a second timer when '1' is outdated/objective hacked or 'player' died. And only after the 3rd ignored/exceeded timer (s)he should be removed from his duties after a squat vote.
In my opinion there should be a "request objective" option for the rest of the squat. If this is ignored by the SL then there should be a 2nd "request objective" after an decent amount of time (1-2 minutes). Only when these 2 requests are ignored there should be an option to vote out a SL. (the 1-2 minute cooldown is so SL can actually get to safety if (s)he is in combat and gets chance to "put out the objective" without actually dying. (there should probably even be an option for SL to instore a longer time delai if he is in combat to extend his timelimit for the 'objective'; but with a drawback... if he ignores/exceeds this extended timelimit he can immediately be voted out.)
I know this is for from perfect...but it is imo a way better system then simply voting someone of. It gives a fair chance to the SL to pick up his role, and it sortoff counters abusive outvoting.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
151
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Posted - 2012.12.27 13:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tenchu-13 wrote:High WP =/= Good leadership capabilities
1- WP doesn't indicate anything about someones abilities as a squatleader. Most people with high WP are directly engaged i close combat... and therefor actually have NO vision whatsoever about what is happening on the rest of the battlefield. Yes they have more experience playing the game, but that's it. Also being good at shooting someone doesn't make you a good strategist/leader...
2- A voting-system is proned to be abused if multiple corpmembers get in a squat with some random blue (public match). A voting system could only be incorporated if there would be some sort of 'veto' option by the SL. (as in a timer for initial command, a second timer when '1' is outdated/objective hacked or 'player' died. And only after the 3rd ignored/exceeded timer (s)he should be removed from his duties after a squat vote.
In my opinion there should be a "request objective" option for the rest of the squat. If this is ignored by the SL then there should be a 2nd "request objective" after an decent amount of time (1-2 minutes). Only when these 2 requests are ignored there should be an option to vote out a SL. (the 1-2 minute cooldown is so SL can actually get to safety if (s)he is in combat and gets chance to "put out the objective" without actually dying. (there should probably even be an option for SL to instore a longer time delai if he is in combat to extend his timelimit for the 'objective'; but with a drawback... if he ignores/exceeds this extended timelimit he can immediately be voted out.)
I know this is for from perfect...but it is imo a way better system then simply voting someone of. It gives a fair chance to the SL to pick up his role, and it sortoff counters abusive outvoting.
+1
This is a very good idea. It kinda pleases everyone and makes it fair. |
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