DUST Search - Representation of Women in Dust

Chunky Munkey wrote:

iceyburnz wrote:

Kazeno Rannaa wrote:

SO,
Does anyone find this strange? Mildly sexist?

No because its a fictional game, depicting fictional, athlete ised , idealised versions of human beings. Action movie humans if you will.

Nobody expects you to look like that.

I mean this is the nicest possible way:

If you genuinely think this is an issue with Dust 514, I suggest you stop playing Dust and re-prioritise. There are much bigger fish to fry in the endless sex war debate. For example; the portrayal of women in glossy magazines, soap operas and advertising.

While I'm sure you eager to flex you new found analytical muscles, and it must be nice and empowering for you, a beta forum for a game is a terrible place to conduct a qualitative study on gender perceptions. Its not empirical, and you just come across is one of those tools who did a 101 class in first year who pretend to be an authority on -insert social science here- on the internet. Its not impressive, and smacks of the worst kind of academic arrogance.

You've constucted quite a strawman there. Kaz was addressing the representation of women in Dust. Not glossy mags or TV ads. Neither was Kaz attempting to conduct a study on the issue.
If you're going to offer a critique of someone's position, make sure that's what you address in it.
And don't finish with an ad hominem, those reliably say more about you than them.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 08:55:00 - [1] - Quote First off you have to understand the decisions behind the adjustments between male and female. For example female skeletons are very different from males. They cope with movement differently. Also there is psychological selling point. To better explain this aspect I'll present to you Mr. Afro Sam Jackson. African American sort of person, all dressed up like a thug from the hood in his 'blinging' ride. To not sell this image at all would to have this character voiced by the whitest nerdy voice you can think of. Dust 514 doesn't give player characters a voice of their own other than the death grunt and breathing so the only other visual indicator left from afar is movement. So back to dust 514. We have the issue of throwing women into the same suits as the men and giving them the same animations and model. How can you tell they are female other than the designation on their ID card? Enlarged Breasts, a very natural organ most females have, is something that isn't very comfortable to squash them into the extremely flat required position onto the body in the pressurized augmented dropsuit? Pressure suits are extremely uncomfortable, if our current ones we use in NASA causes nails to be torn off in the gloves can you imagine what abrasions you can get if you squash an organ like that? Another example is the US army is finding out that Small Body armor traditionally designed for men is still getting women killed (blame goes to the body armor when the body armor fails to do its job in the prescribed environment where it should have worked) because the vests inefficiencies are not accounting for the fact women's bodies ARE different. Bottom line, we could have kept it the generic male clones around but that is not appealing to female characters wanting to play their gender or men wanting to play as females. While you may argue sexualizing the female characters, why are you not complaining about sexualization of the male characters?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 09:04:00 - [2] - Quote Django Quik wrote: I agree that the women avatars in this game are grossly overdone but to be fair, if the difference was not made big and clear, people would be complaining that the females look the same as the males and that Dust has been completely asexualised. That said, they are ridiculous. Why would a female soldier's armor be shaped externally to the shape of her breasts? If this was the most effective bullet protection shape, the men would be using it too. If the flatter male shape is most effective, everyone would use that. And the stupid wibbly wobbly hips thing? No one walks like that! Question is though - if there needs to be a well defined visual differentiation between the sexes in Dust, how should it be represented? Blue striped and Pink striped.... wait that's for baby showers.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 09:26:00 - [3] - Quote at least they don't bounce like some grenades.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 17:37:00 - [4] - Quote Well at least the females dont have bikkini armor like they do in many of bad games.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 17:57:00 - [5] - Quote Kazeno Rannaa wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wrote stufff. Also Wrote stuff countering stuff written As a guy or a guy-hating girl its easy not to see contextualization of men in games angled in a sexual manner because its considered so normal for the gender in games its almost laughable on how many bad examples there are. I mean how many rambo wanna be's have been gracing the covers of video games? well before the age of 3D I can assure you. If you really wanted oversexualization of women in this game they would be all wearing bikkini armor. Courtesy of Terra http://img4.sankakustatic.com/wp-content/gallery/misc-ero-x/sexy-tera-online-025.jpg vs how I think dust handeled armor http://www.joanofarcparade.com/admin_joanofarc2_vfgi.jpg Counter point, the Gallente male armor is oversexualized suit for men in many aspects that would make men just as uncomfortable. May need to wash eyes afterwards, you've been warned (yes its Safe for work I aint like that) http://static.mensunderwearstore.com/mm5/graphics/00000014/CC445054RED-F300.JPG True this model is skimp on the musceles but the fact the lower portion excentuates the package a bit and overly hugs the posterior does make men cringe at the idea for often than you think for reasons well... less obvious. Caldari has light flavoring in it but its not that entirely that bad because what do you expect for a standard issue grunt? Limp noodle arms? That's like expecting the firemen's calendar to have anything less than the guys who do their work every day. Minmatar Logistics Male is rather natural and normal while the and Amarr Heavy Male are as about neutral as you get. Also : Army Body Armor http://www.army.mil/article/87464/ The Wrong Voice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtzlKJ1dObU NASA Suit nail problem http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-09/bulky-tight-fitting-gloves-cause-tough-nails-astronauts-lose-their-fingernails
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:07:00 - [6] - Quote Octavian Vetiver wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Women being merc doesn't even make sense - our weapons are so powerful it kills people without our armor who uses it - yet a girl can wield it fine. I would think female armors would have physical enhancers to them or would be required of them to be able to hold there weapons. But let's focus on there breast sizes instead and how they walk. <3 these forums These are engineered clones. They've already been enhanced. So no, they wouldn't need enhancers. Growth Steroids from biomass to person for a generic clone, it should reason all female combat clones are the same made with average assets for accommodation of their phscye much better. So not much mental adjustment is needed when a female's mind is shoved into a one of these clones bodies.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:14:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @Iron Wolf That's nothing from Terra. You should see Bayonetta. Hell of a strip show that game is. Well I was just pointing out a recent game showing despite efforts to tone it down it still blatantly exists in games today. Also Terra got in trouble with the pedo police because of their half-kin people looked like kids and they had sexualized armor.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:16:00 - [8] - Quote May I lay this on the table. Why did the greeks and other ancient sculptors have most of their human statues nekkid? Hint: Has to do less with sex and more of arrogance.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 19:28:00 - [9] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: iceyburnz wrote: Kazeno Rannaa wrote: SO, Does anyone find this strange? Mildly sexist? No because its a fictional game, depicting fictional, athlete ised , idealised versions of human beings. Action movie humans if you will. Nobody expects you to look like that. I mean this is the nicest possible way: If you genuinely think this is an issue with Dust 514, I suggest you stop playing Dust and re-prioritise. There are much bigger fish to fry in the endless sex war debate. For example; the portrayal of women in glossy magazines, soap operas and advertising. While I'm sure you eager to flex you new found analytical muscles, and it must be nice and empowering for you, a beta forum for a game is a terrible place to conduct a qualitative study on gender perceptions. Its not empirical, and you just come across is one of those tools who did a 101 class in first year who pretend to be an authority on -insert social science here- on the internet. Its not impressive, and smacks of the worst kind of academic arrogance. You've constucted quite a strawman there. Kaz was addressing the representation of women in Dust. Not glossy mags or TV ads. Neither was Kaz attempting to conduct a study on the issue. If you're going to offer a critique of someone's position, make sure that's what you address in it. And don't finish with an ad hominem, those reliably say more about you than them. The thing is we are trying to create a scale to where dust fits. Honestly I think some people are suggesting they would only be happy if the clone genders where deleted. Similar to how some environmentalist would only be happy with human extinction.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 19:33:00 - [10] - Quote 1CLIP 1KILL wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: And don't finish with an ad hominem, those reliably say more about you than them. Dear Chunky Munkey, Chunky Munkey wrote: Do you have even the slightest idea how hard you just failed? Wonders if Chunky Munkey even knows what an ad hominem logic is. Other types of logic not to use in a debate. Slipperly Slope (ie: if we allow gays to marry then well be allowing people to marry animals) Illogical Casualties (ie: if we ban guns we'll save children in china) Illogical Analogies. (ie: His policy is like a litter box!) Circular Logic (ie: God or Man, who invented who)

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 20:05:00 - [11] - Quote Its like saying diablo 3's diablo was sexualized and not diablo 2's diablo. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120513133437/diablo/images/3/3a/Diablo_Diablo_III_full_body.PNG Diablo 3 http://www.gpu-ava.zoomshare.com/files/diablo2.jpg Diablo 2
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 20:39:00 - [12] - Quote Noraa Anderson wrote: I think the females should be more realistic. They should have less prominent breasts and normal boots. They should have a weaker melee attack, less stamina and any weapon they use recoils more. One final touch of realism is that they shouldn't be fighting on the frontlines at all. ^This is the opposite side of the argument. You should also point out smaller hit boxes.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 20:55:00 - [13] - Quote Calm down Jenza he isn't work the isk. May I suggest stabbing him?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 21:00:00 - [14] - Quote Sandromin Hes wrote: I find it hilarious how the OP is trolling all of you with complex words that usually wouldn't be found in the average person's vocabulary. Furthermore, I find it even funnier that he's perpetuating a so-called "gender war" between all of you. Just shut up and let CCP do the work. Also, if you didn't realize, its all based on your race. Gallente is a western liberal nation that tends to portray women in a promiscuous fashion, whereas Amarr is a modest nation, for example like Afghanistan, and keeps their women in modest clothing. Just keep making the links. This poster has failed the point in where we seemed to have ignored the OP and began discussing a topic worthy of a discussion among ourselves. A good troll would continue to antagonize all sides into further dribble and depravity and not snow ball us into sensible debaters.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 21:01:00 - [15] - Quote Kira Lannister wrote: I honestly think they should keep Samus Aran from Metroid Prime in mind when designing the female character. Or the female Spartans from Halo. I remember when people thought Samus was a guy and nobody beat metriod yet. I think I was the first one in my class to beat it and starting telling other people about it. nobody believed me for the longest time.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.23 21:19:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Calm down Jenza he isn't work the isk. May I suggest stabbing him? hey Hey Hey HEY HEY! No stealing my ideas! I was thinking more of forced reversed urination to the point of kidneys and bladder exploding.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.24 22:07:00 - [17] - Quote we do have pink suits?