You should complain how the men are tall and well built, with an even and powerful frame.

It's wrong to want "perfection" in "perfect" combat clones, am I right?

Lofl youre kidding me right? Youre seriously focused on the fact that they gave the female avatars definition? What you want? A super dyke butch female built and carrying dumbbells? Its a game we stereotype females as having nice figures.

You want a fat girl? Perhaps double d's with a beer gut and a limp? Throw in a black eye? Not all men are built the way they're portrayed in this game, we don't whine. Although some of us do have jobs and visit the gym regularly.

Point being its only a game stop worrying about the cosmetics and stereotypes, play and enjoy and help fix the damn thing.

Really? May I ask what within my comments you considered sexist?

This is my thing if you(a female) were to create a character yourselves body type and all 95% of woman will make themselves look like they just came out of a fantasy playboy issue as they do with mosy MMO games..


When do you ever see a FAT GIRL representation of themselves, Most will create someone who in there eyes they wanna be..
Im sorry but i feel that this is the way of the world today same as a male 95% of the time you wont find a guy creating a skimp ass version of themselves you know, There gonna be buff with some overbearing voice and a new persona...When there a fat kid with glasses and soprano toned voice,

viewing it as a sexist act kinda contradicts and has a hint of sexism in it anyway i mean unless your american(which i am) most woman are petite and are very sexual people, you would be underminding yourselves to potray yourself as anything less,

not to mention it brings unification to the table like a uniform school cant make jokes if you all look the same no? just saying

Actually Kazeno, you are the one making this stereotype into a big deal. No one else, not anyone at CCP or otherwise intended to "oversexualize" them as see it. However, let me bring your attention to this.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSaZXKCZiT-_pRB_x6mvOYjiuUzAt8WDJ7mBhcFEmjpFkfMZ1RXA


Now remember, only for research ;). But I could totally see this female in a Gallente Scout armor fitting perfectly. Now you want some "research"for any other points as well?

No because its a fictional game, depicting fictional, athlete ised , idealised versions of human beings. Action movie humans if you will.

Nobody expects you to look like that.

I mean this is the nicest possible way:

If you genuinely think this is an issue with Dust 514, I suggest you stop playing Dust and re-prioritise. There are much bigger fish to fry in the endless sex war debate. For example; the portrayal of women in glossy magazines, soap operas and advertising.

While I'm sure you eager to flex you new found analytical muscles, and it must be nice and empowering for you, a beta forum for a game is a terrible place to conduct a qualitative study on gender perceptions. Its not empirical, and you just come across is one of those tools who did a 101 class in first year who pretend to be an authority on -insert social science here- on the internet. Its not impressive, and smacks of the worst kind of academic arrogance.

I find this thread to be far beyond the point in which most of the people playing this game would like to think. I on the other hand will debate your points and the statements of others.

Yes this game sexualizes women, but it does the same thing to men. The argument of the game is, we are using genetically enhanced men and women. You have to think of this universe as a spartan world, in which anyone at birth that seemed week was cast from a mountain to their death as an infant. This is the universe that you play in. So for men to be designed the way they are makes sense they must be strong and alpha, they are beyond fit and probably taking muscular enhancers. So the way they are designed makes sense. You may not like it, but it is CCP's universe that they have created, set into motion, and made the vastly large and differentiating back ground stories. From slavery to an over zealous religious worlds. These are worlds made by people with their own views and beliefs but by no means does that mean if you are uncomfortable here should you play this game.

Now as far as women go it sits almost in the same place. These are clones that are created in the same manner. So yes their parts will be overly defined in the same manner as the men are. They also enhanced as well. When you enhance a woman to make them stronger they usually take on a masculine aspect , one that most women would not like to be portrayed as. So in a sense CCP has tried to find a middle ground in which fits their own story and fits the personal views of the women who would like to play this game. Yes I am aware that not all women would like to be portrayed in this manner. But women have breast and as the world goes they are not getting any smaller, and if you increase hormones into a women's body these parts get larger by nature. Again these hormones are used in this world for women and men so they are going to have large breast. Now the sway cannot be defined by any back ground info of the game, but I would like you to take a survey and see which women want to walk like a man and which ones would like to have swagger. The boots are more than likely there also because CCP is trying to make the women happy in this game. I also feel that is is overdone and the military does not issue different boots to women than they do men. But given the statement earlier about armor they might want to look into armor that is more designed for women's body style. Which in turn might give them a more female look. That is to be determined.

As for you fight against the way we are portrayed, you might want to center it on both male and females because we are both stereotyped on this game. Men just have a logical and proven reason for looking and walking the way we do. Yet the way women walk and are their boots has more to do with the way they want to see themselves and the way society would like them to look. Their armor and their physic has logical and proven reasons for looking the way they do. The truth of the matter is if this is how a woman wants to look it is none of you business how they look as long as they are respectable in a public manner then it should not matter to you.

I as a person am very liberal and how you choose to act or portray yourself in a private setting is your own choice. I also feel that there is an amount of respect that should be put out for yourself and those around you when you are in public, given the setting in which you are in. My wife, mother, sister, and many of my female friends are very sexual and have a crude and no holds bar verbal personality. It is no way my right to tell them this is wrong and that they should not act or be this way as long as they hold a respectable manner when one is in the situation that this should be done.

If I had my way, I'd make the female models have bigger breasts and a bigger ass. It's a personal preference. I do not mind that others may want male models to have a larger phallus, or phallic bulge. Again, it's a personal preference.

Who are you to tell me what is acceptable to like?

Dear Chunky Munkey,

Wonders if Chunky Munkey even knows what an ad hominem logic is.

Other types of logic not to use in a debate.

Slipperly Slope (ie: if we allow gays to marry then well be allowing people to marry animals)
Illogical Casualties (ie: if we ban guns we'll save children in china)
Illogical Analogies. (ie: His policy is like a litter box!)
Circular Logic (ie: God or Man, who invented who)

Wait, the women in DUST are overtly sexualized?

lol, you must have the decency standards of the Amish.

I'm glad you have expanded your mind in college but get off your high horse you stupid prick. This is a dumb thread.



I went to university!

|
|
v

I must be smart now!


I use big words to prove that I'm smart!

|
|
|
v

I'm a giant douche!

You have mistaken my comment on perfection as one of looks. My perfection model was one based on the ability to do the job of a merc.

Lets all calm down and all agree that Kazeno Rannaa's ideal woman (should he ever find one) will be flat of chest, small of hips with absolutely no sway to her hips and will dress in nothing but turtle necks and jeans. Because anything more seems to be an unrealistic and over sexualised view of women.

Once again I still fail to see what alot of people are complaining about. Go to your local shopping centers, spend at even a minute looking around and I guarantee you will within seconds find a girl dressed far more provacatively than this. If you find many women doing it then I have a feeling that oh I dunno... maybe that women dress that way in this day and age. Look at half the damn shows on TV they have women dress far more provacatively. You'll find a dropsuit that just follows a normal womans curves and the fact she has a very hip swaying walk is the least of your concerns.

Worry about something that matters like the mothers dragging around their toddlers in miniskirts, knee high boots and fur jackets. How do you think they'll grow up? I worry more about real life things than oh that girl in this game looks way too sexualised despite the fact I can't even tell it's a female suit when I'm too busy shooting in the game to even notice until I go to Tbag her corpse.

Miss the point? You're the one making to much out of it, read again, my point is clear, You're saying that Dust women are oversexualised, my point is that look around, real life, women these days dress alot more provacatively for you to call this oversexualised compared to everyday life, TV, and other games in general is a joke. I will admit though I got off topic at the end.

Once again I still fail to see how breasts, and a rather hip swaying walk can possibly be be that bad but somehow you'll take offense to anything it seems. So I'm done with this now, you're the one averting your eyes from the fact that due to the way women interact and dress socially does change the way the world looks at things thus looking into this game from the outside people would then with this new perspective would say compared to other things and games I've seen this isn't bad at all. Because for the last time really how much of a difference between the two suits are there? Very little, save for breasts and a hip swaying walk.

These female avatars are depicted rather well as women, outside of the walk which looks like either their suits are to tight or they have a stick in their butts. lol.

These women have slender frames, a basic hour glass shape, decent size breast, decent sized rears, rather thicker shoulders for your average woman(which is usually a sign of athleticism). They actually look some what athletic. At a runners/stamina stand point these women by their virtual look and my own experience as a runner look like they could smoke probably at least 85% of the people playing in this beta.

I was contemplating on this thread and games over doing women's sexual physical identities. CCP had two roads to take in the category of the female body. They could have gone the over athletic female figure which as an athlete I can tell you is a very hard body type to achieve, and most who try cannot get there just do to body style and genetics. Which is sexiest in itself because this promotes the same feelings as a Barbie. I can't look like that and I should look like that or I am not pretty.

Or they could have taken the road that they have taken the cross between athleticism and general average women. In the Gallente suit the avatars body is more noticable, but if you look she does not have a completely flat stomach she actually has a stomach that is there not in a completely wash board abs style. Good sized breast a good sized rear, but they are not over done they are on the average size. Which the women who can never achieve this shape will fill the same way as the category before.

Then they could have taken the third route which does not put women into the game at all. This again is sexist, because it promotes the thought that women are not competent enough to perform on the battle field.

So in conclusion of the choices where would you have like them to have gone with this game. Which route would you have taken. All are sexiest in there own right by your definition of over sexualizing women. I feel that CCP has taken the middle road with this everyone was not going to be happy you can't make them all happy if you try you will only go mad.

On a final note towards the game listed, I am a self respecting man and I loved DOA it is by far one of the most complicated and hardcore fighting games ever made. The combos, counters, grab, and counter grabs are so advanced and responsive that if performed by an advanced players can go on for 15 to 20 seconds before someone even deals damage. These women were oversexualized but was looked past by me and many others(not payed any attention to when you are trying not to lose)do to the complexity and the large amount of skill needed to even be good at this game. These games are still mocked and laughed at due to the way they depict women, even given how good of a game it was by women, men, and gamers alike to this day.

I have come to notice that the OP and Chunky have managed to grab the trolling posts and use selective reading whenever they read someone's post that uses some tact in there comments(by this I mean they interpret what they want out of the post).

After reading and posting in this thread I went online and googled and searched pics of the Olympic women contenders. During competitions and off of the field. I have to say after doing some research that a lot of those women have good sized breast rather large butts that would look good in a gallente scout suit. Now most of them don't have large hips, do to hip size usually being the first to fall off when you get into good shape and you can't really tell how they walk from still shots. So as far as it goes out side of there walk and their shoes which could be used as women are generally shorter and they need to be as tall as the men so just pump them up a little(for games hit box sake), or just make the a little bit girly. I think CCP has done a pretty good job of capturing women as a whole in this video game where a particular type of woman is need to fill the roles that we are playing.

As stated the OP was trying to ask and confront those about the way they feel about the game, but after people started posting with some respect and some without bout how they feel he left. Chunky has come in to take over on the for front, but has managed to grab troll post and interpret what he/she wants out of people's comments and make snide comments towards that person. I have not offended you or assumed anything in your direction, but you Chunky have attacked and tried to troll/offend me twice. Both times I have come back with respectful answers to you assumptions explaining my side, and both times you have left my comments alone. I find this rather hilarious for someone looking for a debate which you clearly are by your use of words and tact. You two(OP and Chunky) have not brought anything to the table that has not already been posted in the first post by the OP. Where most people who have tried to debate you have brought mutiple, yet you do the same to them. Troll them through misinterpretation or leave their comments alone when you have nothing to return fire with.

For someone looking to debate you my friend have failed, and I hope that this thread dies along with your attempts to debate those who oppose you. I will still be here reading to see if anything new comes up on you two's side which I doubt it will.

This was not an attack on your free time I do understand the days that this thread is taking place in and that family comes first if you do have anything else to add please do it after your RL things are taking care of.

Family first it is SC's way don't believe it come read it for yourself.

Happy Holidays.
Dover.

This has to be the dumbest thing ever.Any women that is famous ie movie star,singer has done something in the way of cosmetic surgery to her body.Some type of body modification,lipo suction,breast implants,no jobs ,face lifts,eye wrinkle removing.It has nothing to do with sexism at all.It has to do with what is aesthetically pleasing to the eye.For all of you who look down at CCP's scout as sexism you need to watch GI Jane again.When Demi Moore is working out.Look at her body.That is what the female form looks like when its devoted to exercise and physical conditioning.Am I wrong to find that appealing?I think not.The OP needs to get real.
Weather thick,chubby,short,or tall.I love all women....BECAUSE they're effeminate and feminine.

Again Chunky you have a way of not reading what is written. He is stating that it is the norm, not that it is right just that it is the norm. It is what we see everyday if you see something and tell yourself that is normal you will begin to see it(I am not saying that this is how the poster feels, I am saying this is the norm of society. Right or wrong.).

His post is stating the same thing that I have been saying the whole time that these are not average women in this game they are women of athleticism, not average women.

To you who think this is sexist can you please describe in what way the women "should" look? Oh and if you can then you will also be sexist in thinking all women should look that way.

When or if, this game gets a character creation/design thing you can make your women avatars look like supermodels or like a dyke. As of now there is nothing to complain about.

Also what about the well formed guys in the game my ass does not look like that nor could my gut fit in the armor isn't it sexist in depicting men in a muscular yet slim build?

So its just how an artist designed a girl its not CCP saying this is how all women should be. I doubt all of CCP sat around and said enlarge that make that more defined there was probably one dev was told to make the female model he made then presented it they said it will do and thats all there is to it

You are creating a false concern that has nothing to do with real women. Its just an artistic depiction. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I am done with this.

Classical greek male statue look like they are in pretty good shape if you ask me.

Edit: sorry link did not work but go ahead and look up some classical Greek statues of men.

but she is not posing for any advertising. She is not posing at all, unless you take it that way which is your own prerogative. Also Greek statues don't look silly outside of missing appendages, they look athletic and like fit people.

Okay so I have a quick question does it make us people who don't care about sexualism or people that are mature enough to look past a female body since we never noticed before this thread.

Because to me it was just a woman not the perfect woman, not the best athlete, not a sex idol not just an avatar for me to shoot at that represented the enemy or someone on my team to protect, rep, revive, and play with.

But how is that sexist if no one see it as sexy no one looks at it as a sexual image. We would not have looked at it in any other way if she had looked more idealistic to the people that feel like this oversexualized.

if I see someone in real life that I feel is over the top i would make a comment about it being wrong. Much like people have stated in earlier post in society if i see something like that. I make comment she or he should not look like that it is not respectfull to them or anyone else. I don't get where me not seeing this as disrespectful to me or anyone observing it because it is not sexy makes sexist.

I think as you stated this is all up to interpretation and each individuals thresholds of sexy. They only good news I see is for me where most of the people don't see this as sexy. Which falls to another issue of desensitivity of society. Which falls to a perception of change and a system of liberal and conservative. The conservative feel that we should feel like we used to and women should be wrapped up and covered for the world not to see them and protected from the preying eyes of the perverted man. This is wrong because it destroys a section of society by control. On the other hand you have the liberal which feels that they should be given the freedom to do as they see fit within the confounds of the law that is in charge at the time. This also cause issues because it constantly pushes limits which eventually may take us to a point where we don't care what people do as a whole.

This all is a very political/ethical thing which i think does not belong here on this forum. It is a matter of opinion, and I don't see either of ours changing. There is no right or wrong there is only a matter of opinion, this will not change things. The reason I fought so hard was because I seen what you were getting at and I did not want it to effect Dust as a whole. If CCP wants to change it then they should but they should change it because they want to, and if they do they will do it because they felt like they have offended people. Which is respectful of them and wise from a business stand point. If they don't I stand by them in the right to make their avatars as they want them to look and that they don't see it as over sexualization.

1Clip was right we will not agree we have different opinions and we have probably a lot of different stand points. That we will not agree on. You have stood by your opinion strong and fought well. I wish I could have the education to stand toe to toe with you for this debate, but it is not education that decides this it is opinion. Very well done Chunky, I still stand by my point and hope that they don't change her because I feel there is no need to. Also this is one of the few times I have not fought my point ongoing, well done.

P.S. sorry for the political rant

*sigh* Always one...


Look, I'm going to be honest with you here, I have never noticed the difference between the two models. At all. As I was reading the original post, I was trying to remember a time where I actually looked at the models for an extended amount of time and found that these memories don't exist, even with my female vehicle clone. Only time i've ever looked at either model for an extended amount of time is when I'm trying to figure out if that is just one big*** backpack on the back of my SVER Logibro suit.

I'm starting to wonder if I could make a case for overtly-sexualized male character models. I mean it's been going on for so long and I NEVER hear anyone talking about those. Then again, maybe I just live in an area with an abnormally low concentration of tall, buff dudes.


EDIT: In my...mental thing about fixing errors in my post, I started thinking about that backpack thing again. I'll figure it out one of these days.

I suggest you go load up Second Life on your PC, then go meet a few hundred real women who play a video game and compare their avatar which they created and customized to their real appearance, and ask them if they feel the tame depiction of the female form found here in Dust 514 bothers them.

No, it doesn't. The point of the suggestion is to see what real woman given the choice of how they are depicted, have chosen to depict themselves as in a virtual game. Further to get their opinion on the matter brought up. It changes nothing of the core argument.

And if you're too busy trying to play guess the gender with suits then they're probably killing you while you're thinking.

Totally ignore my point then.

I'm not looking to see what gender the suit is. I could care less, telling the suits types apart is easy. Also identifying weapons is the second.

People still posting in this thread? As if girls really played and gave half a crap

When a girl posts and doesn't look like donkey kong and says exactly in detail how she finds this offensive then this thread would be interesting - otherwise lolol, strange reads.

Why is it? \you can identify it if you want and if its relevent but your brain filters out what gender the suit is if your playing the game right because the gender makes no difference to threat assessment

JUST SHUT UP
Those of you still arguing about this are absolute retards- none of you even have any decent points left.
The future presence of a character creator destroyed this thread before it started.

The war of the dumbasses will now continue, despite this and the previously similar posts.

such a sarcastic thread. Do you really believe sexism would be an issue if women weren't bringing it up? So I really couldn't care less what a males opinion is on sexism. And if females have a problem with an athletic built stereotypical female model then they can wipe the jelly tears from there face and grow up - you don't see me bitching that most every male protagonist would look great on a sports catalogue magazines. Looks sell anyways - ugly doesn't. Look at all the people crying for higher graphic quality and HD resolution.

Having been in actual warfare, even bothering to tell what gender the person shooting at you is would not be productive. Since there are no combat suits in real life the first thing you look for is what are they shooting with and where so you can shoot them instead. I got an idea, how about you and your college buddy Kazeno or whatever his name is go off to combat and see how long you spend worrying about what gender the person shooting at you is. As for on here, I still can't tell the difference between the suit genders. Even looking at screenshots where it says female suit I can't tell.

Proof that you don't care about this topic, and you just want to troll up the forums.

For me this makes no sense if it is not taken in a sexual manner how can it be sexualized. Other than by perverting the original idea to something else.

Don't use stupid, out dated memes, it makes you look even more stupid than your posting in this thread.

Also, just so you know i've reported your post because this thread needs closing.