DUST Search - Scout this build

NovaShadowStorm wrote:

Yeahhhh have you actually invested any points into making a strong scout fit or do you just expect them to be good from the get go? The Scout suit sprints much faster than other suits and it has low signature profile. Scout as it's name suggests is a light suit fast and not easily detected if you're not looking at it, it's great for sniping as scout snipers are notoriously hard to find, dropping advanced spawn points before anyone even notices you were in the area and just general point harassment. The scout shotgun fit is a very popular build at the moment. You can move around, behind and kill someone without ever appearing on their radar, even heavies or proto suits. Against shotguns at near point blank range nothing stands long.

If you're trying to take on another suit head on with a scout suit you're doing something wrong, don't fit to tank them because more like than not you will be shredded, build for flexibility.

Ludvig Enraga wrote:

Do you play a scout or you are making an observation based on what you have seen other ppl do? I can tell you I speced into scout. The sprint speed is a joke it's marginally better than that of an assault suit. Shotguns are incredibly short range. Also, unlike most ppl think you cannot one-pop a heavy with you SG, except maybe for the proto breach variant (which you would not be using because it would involve equipping a very expensive weapon on a very vulnerable suit that's prone to dying). As far as stealth goes, you can also sneak up on ppl in assault suits that don't light up on the grid. As far as dropping uplinks or harassing the enemy goes, imo those are just excuses that ppl make up to cover up the fact that scout is not worth much by itself - what I mean is that who would want to spec into scout just to drop some uplinks in some theoretically stealthy way.

I can say with all honesty I have not put a single point into scout suits but do use a 'Dragonfly' scout suit fit as a shot gunner and run about 2/1 - 4/1 when I use it I have a Malitia shotgun, Complex damage mod, Standard Locus grenade, Basic profile dampener, Basic armour repper and a nano hive. My defences are paper thin I'll give you that but my stealth makes up for it and I can get behind enemies so long as I play it smart. Whether it's a shotgun to the back, face, side or lobbing in a grenade from an unexpected direction, I find it invaluable. And how can you call harassing an excuse? It's a valid tactic, snuck up on a few guys OHK one in the back the rest chased me, got them low with a grenade, ran around a corner, they chased, right into a heavy with a HMG and they all died. Everyone wins. It's all how you play it that makes the difference.


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Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 08:26:00 - [1] - Quote I am thinking Scout is still not fixed. This remains a very weak suit with no strong points. Running is just as slow. Remote target detection is weak and gives you zero battlefield awareness - as usual, you turn a corner just to see the 6 spinning barrels 6 ft away pointed at your nose. Extremely limited grid, so by the time you get ur shield modules, you cant even carry a damn needle to pick ppl up. Anyone differs in their opinion? Please, don't say that Scout is awesome for hacking or sniping - any suit with an LAV or a sniping rifle is awesome at those things. Please, limit responses to discussion of combat worthiness of the scout suit.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 20:40:00 - [2] - Quote Yeahhhh have you actually invested any points into making a strong scout fit or do you just expect them to be good from the get go? The Scout suit sprints much faster than other suits and it has low signature profile. Scout as it's name suggests is a light suit fast and not easily detected if you're not looking at it, it's great for sniping as scout snipers are notoriously hard to find, dropping advanced spawn points before anyone even notices you were in the area and just general point harassment. The scout shotgun fit is a very popular build at the moment. You can move around, behind and kill someone without ever appearing on their radar, even heavies or proto suits. Against shotguns at near point blank range nothing stands long. If you're trying to take on another suit head on with a scout suit you're doing something wrong, don't fit to tank them because more like than not you will be shredded, build for flexibility. [/quote] Do you play a scout or you are making an observation based on what you have seen other ppl do? I can tell you I speced into scout. The sprint speed is a joke it's marginally better than that of an assault suit. Shotguns are incredibly short range. Also, unlike most ppl think you cannot one-pop a heavy with you SG, except maybe for the proto breach variant (which you would not be using because it would involve equipping a very expensive weapon on a very vulnerable suit that's prone to dying). As far as stealth goes, you can also sneak up on ppl in assault suits that don't light up on the grid. As far as dropping uplinks or harassing the enemy goes, imo those are just excuses that ppl make up to cover up the fact that scout is not worth much by itself - what I mean is that who would want to spec into scout just to drop some uplinks in some theoretically stealthy way.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 20:46:00 - [3] - Quote Guinevere Bravo wrote: Profile dampeners are now a low slot module instead of a high. Work it out. But what advantage does it give you in a battle? You are gonna say you can 'sneak' up on ppl? In the majority of maps there are massive open spaces that you need to cross to get to your target. And unless you enjoy killing unsuspecting snipers - which is a pretty pathetic task imo, you are talking about blindsiding not one but a bunch of squad mates on the oposing team that will most likely see you as you approach (i.e. some ppl are always watching the 6 o'clock of the squad), so you will be seen regardless of a lack of an HUD signature. Look - bottom line: yes scouts are supposed to be a fast but vulnerable target with good stealth and scanning capabilities. As it stands though - the vulnerability (as compared in HP to other suits) far outweighs the marginal advantages of the scout such as a slightly better scan profile and a touch better sprint.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 20:49:00 - [4] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I'm running a few Scout suits on 2/3 of my characters. Better than they were in Codex, imo. Yeah ok, but is it good enough? Are they still on par with other suits? Please, rank in terms of desirability/usefulness suits that you would want to be on your squad. Would scout even make the list?
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 20:52:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I don't know if I want to see them buffed or anything...though I really think all the suits are missing flare. Each class of suit needs unique modules or abilities, to really help define their roles and expand upon their specialization. I would agree with that. But independence/ free customization with no specific exclusive abilities to each suit/class is one of the high trees in the Dust garden that CCP planted a long ago (you can see this repeated in their interviews that they don't force you to play a certain way/certain class and you are free to choose and customize as you wish), and now it's just too big to hack it down.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 20:58:00 - [6] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I average a 2/1 kdr with a scout smg combo, and it's half the price of my hmg fits which give me 3/1 after 2months of skills invested into them.. You gave an example of turning a corner to find a heavy there. Why don't you turn and run before he can even cast his ring of death crosshair over you? With this faster paced gameplay, scouts are no more powerful, but far more useful. They are the most fun way to play this game to me. #1: how many kills do you average in a game? High KDR does not count for much is you kill only five and die 0. What 'choosing your targets right' means to me is that you can't engage most targets and should go for the weak ones - is that a satisfying way to play a game? #2: Yes scouts are fun to play that's why I play scout but as far as objective performance goes, not limited to but exemplified by KDR, scouts fall behind compared to other suits. And my point is that in a balanced game there should be balanced objective performance between different suits/classes. I don't know if ccp sees it this way though.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 21:23:00 - [7] - Quote Mischa Egan wrote: Ludvig, I've been known to go 20+ kills with around 5-7 deaths in a militia scout shoutgun fit, no if you just run around randomly you die alot, they do require a bit of thought and planning. (where's my next bluedot bait) But sure it happens. And I have had games where I do really well but they are not the rule. As a scout going against an experienced corp is a big challenge (more so than other suits). And sure a good player is gonna do ok. This is not my point. I am not saying scout is impossible to play. All I am saying is that scout is noticeably inferior to other suits. I think this is plain to see and yet I am not finding any support for this point of view. Maybe I am deluded, but I am sure there is a bunch of ppl that share my opinion.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 21:27:00 - [8] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: A figure is seen in the distance, moving from cover to cover. No HUD marker on them. Can't get a bead because they're dashing quickly between positions. Don't panic, there's a whole group of us, and it's only one maybe-enemy-maybe-friend. They vanish, and don't show up for several seconds. Guess it was nothing. Suddenly, SHOTGUN BLAST! Someone on your team died. Wasn't in your squad though, nothing to worry about. Although that Shotgun sounded kind of close... Suddenly, SHOTGUN IN THE BACK! Squad panics, SHOTGUN TO THE FACE! Remaining guy or two fire wildly in the general direction of the red dot they finally found, SHOTGUN TO THE... oh kitten, this one's a Heavy... 3/1 is still not bad. Yep, sure low profile helps and yes this is exactly how scout is supposed to be played ideally. But in reality with all the current scout weaknesses a situation that you are describing will take place maybe 20% of the time with 80% being failure when going against ppl with experience. When this does happen - sure it's satisfying to be that Zorro guy who pulled it off.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 21:31:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Repeat after me. Scouts are not front line troops. They're behind the lines sort of troops. That's a really deep thought, man. please elaborate what exactly should the scout be doing behind the lines? Hacking? Hiding? Sniping? Picking off an odd poor bastid enemy sniper? Do you want to play a scout like that? Do you want to have this job designation of doing all these menial tasks of questionable importance? Most ppl don't and that's why no one really wants to play scout because it's just not that attractive of an option to be a second tier asset to you corp/squad.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 22:02:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: let me put it this way. If you're getting shot at as a scout, you're doing it wrong. Let me put it this way. This is the most pointless post I've seen in this thread.

Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 22:08:00 - [11] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: A figure is seen in the distance, moving from cover to cover. No HUD marker on them. Can't get a bead because they're dashing quickly between positions. Don't panic, there's a whole group of us, and it's only one maybe-enemy-maybe-friend. They vanish, and don't show up for several seconds. Guess it was nothing. Suddenly, SHOTGUN BLAST! Someone on your team died. Wasn't in your squad though, nothing to worry about. Although that Shotgun sounded kind of close... Suddenly, SHOTGUN IN THE BACK! Squad panics, SHOTGUN TO THE FACE! Remaining guy or two fire wildly in the general direction of the red dot they finally found, SHOTGUN TO THE... oh kitten, this one's a Heavy... 3/1 is still not bad. Yep, sure low profile helps and yes this is exactly how scout is supposed to be played ideally. But in reality with all the current scout weaknesses a situation that you are describing will take place maybe 20% of the time with 80% being failure when going against ppl with experience. When this does happen - sure it's satisfying to be that Zorro guy who pulled it off. I was running a Shotgun Scout on my alt with level 4 Dropsuit Command, but no other scan profile reduction, and did fairly similar to this scenario a couple of times in one of my battles earlier today. I wasn't an ultimate stealth fitting, and I wasn't on my main, so I didn't have my full stealth skill complement either. I was up against good players, but I can't deny that luck played a major factor. I spawned in good positions several times with teammates watching the enemy from a distance - this resulted in both a distraction to let me sneak up behind said enemy force, AND a better awareness of enemy locations without any need for me to actually move into their line of sight. Friendly snipers (even bad ones) are a Shotgun Scout's best friends. I've used a more sneaky Shotgun Scout for hit-and-run attacks when I'm backed up by good Logi support. Don't worry so much about killing everything, just run in, get one fast kill, then fire a couple of blasts while backing up. after a couple of shots, or as soon as anything hurts, turn and run for cover. I completely agree with you and I think I play very similarly to you and I do enjoy doing it. But what would be nice is that if scouts were on par with other suits as far as their usefulness goes. So far they are only ok and that's in the hands of an experienced player, but they don't shine the same way a heavy suit would in the hands of a skilled player. You rarely see scouts leading post-match WP tables.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 22:33:00 - [12] - Quote right, that's you. A lot of ppl know you. Like I know that you drive a tank a lot and play a SG scout a lot. Then there is Gizmo, Jackal zero, DTO. And..... that's it. I struggle to think of any other ppl who can outmatch the odds and do well as a scout. And even half the ppl that I named have given up being a scout because you just go against the flow when you are trying to do the right thing (imo) and play as a scout (instead of doing some cookiecutter OP flavor of the month). It's just so much easier to be a heavy or assault and top charts. Don't you see that this is unbalanced? for ever one of you who can top charts after a match there are five assaults and five heavies who can do the same. Look - I am not saying scout is pathetic, I am not saying it's worthless. All I am saying is that, as is - scout is a weaker suit. Not weak but weaker. Sure you can try to go against the odds but they are just not in your favor. ---Ehm - this is in reply to Garrett's post right above
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.21 22:43:00 - [13] - Quote Anyanka Shadowmane wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Repeat after me. Scouts are not front line troops. They're behind the lines sort of troops. That's a really deep thought, man. please elaborate what exactly should the scout be doing behind the lines? Hacking? Hiding? Sniping? Picking off an odd poor bastid enemy sniper? Do you want to play a scout like that? Do you want to have this job designation of doing all these menial tasks of questionable importance? Most ppl don't and that's why no one really wants to play scout because it's just not that attractive of an option to be a second tier asset to you corp/squad. I've had some pretty cool games doing just that, when I've not been playing my Logi. I'll either stick close to a friendly squad and give em support by flanking their targets, take out annoying redline snipers or hack things while everyone else is fighting. I've got reasonable rankings on the leader boards doing this too (admittedly, generally not as good as when I straight Logi). Currently, I don't think I'm good enough at shooting people to play to kill people and hope to end up wi any sort of rank on the leader board, so I don't. I do other things that benefit my team, and kill people when I can. Sometimes that's playing a scout and flanking, hunting down snipers, placing droplinks or hacking things, playing a Logi and repairing, reviving or re-supplying, or even switching in to assault and occasionally counter-sniping. I think that currently, scouts are a very viable class, that just takes a little thought. Sure this is good and I am sure you are useful to your team. But all of those tasks can be done pretty much with any suit. the converse is not true - you cannot fill the direct killer role as a scout that other suits possess. This is not by any means a way to discredit what you said. Scouts are viable but still are lacking - other suits can do at least a little more at least a little better.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.23 06:16:00 - [14] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: profile skill is still broken and doesn't work properly. this is why the scout suit is still a pathetic piece of work. vehicles still have a zero profile and will pop up only when they are in direct line of sight just like everything else on the battlefield. I agree it's things like that that end cutting scout short.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.23 06:18:00 - [15] - Quote I've recently stopped running with a breach SG because I think it's too broken this build and have switched to the regular SG. I have to say that did improve my performance some. I will do more experimentation and post here if I think that my experience is worth sharing. I am really interested how well I can perform against better organized corporations as a scout vs playing with randoms.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.24 20:48:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: let me put it this way. If you're getting shot at as a scout, you're doing it wrong. Let me put it this way. This is the most pointless post I've seen in this thread. Why waste text space addressing something you are going to be snide about and your superior sense of how things are isn't going to be defeated by a post long explanation? Ergo. If one must make a manual for all items dust containing one sentence a piece. Scout suit's would be still "Don't get shot." If you cannot further extrapolate how to turn that one line into an extensive full 'how-to manual' in the current environment and you are still trying to play the scout suit as it was 2 or 3 environments ago, it is not my fault you refuse to adapt techniques, approaches, game style, module choices, skill accessories, and growth path. 1. No, you r right you should not waste space and you shoulda kept you deep thought to yourself because it doesnot help any. So why waste thread space at all? 2. Oh, I dont think any of it is your fault or any nof this exists for that matter. I just don't see any point in garbage one-liners from self-assured teenagers in a place of public discussion.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.24 20:57:00 - [17] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Scout suits are borderline overpowered. If you're seen these new P.F.B guys running around in Scout suits, it's ridiculous. Impossible to hit, and extremely fast. Satori went 40-6 or something in one of them. Never ran into one of those kids but it would be interesting to see. I am backing away some from my initial impression that scout is a useless POS. Recently I swiched to a regular SG and have been doing OK. Now I tend to think that the problem is with Breach SG that I used to favor the previous build and that does not work anymore and not in the scout suit itself. I will say this though: against higher tier corps it's very difficult to ambush their players as a scout to place yourself in the CQC environment where SMG adn SG shine. My prediciton is that when this game advances and more ppl gain experience and band together in corps dictating CQC battle conditions as a scout will be progressively more difficult, limiting your performance as a battle scout.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.25 13:52:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 1. No, you r right you should not waste space and you shoulda kept you deep thought to yourself because it doesnot help any. So why waste thread space at all? 2. Oh, I dont think any of it is your fault or any of this exists for that matter. I just don't see any point in garbage one-liners from self-assured teenagers in a place of public discussion. Actually the information I put forward is extremely helpful if you had any sensibilities on what it means to eat, breath, and kill as a scout. I take it you're not the sort of person that would take in-game defeats as a serious lesson in learning. This 'instant' gratification/reward cannot be given, success can only be earned and closing all doors to that route is not helping you the slightest bit. Sit down, re-evaluate where you are screwing up and fix it. [/quote] Don't you see that you got into this conversation with a pretentious one-line comment that implies that you know better than others? Everything that you wrote to me in this thread has been in a condescending preachy tone that assumes that I am a dumb S and you are opening doors to wisdom for me. Comments like this are hard to take seriously.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.26 05:42:00 - [19] - Quote NovaShadowStorm wrote: NovaShadowStorm wrote: Yeahhhh have you actually invested any points into making a strong scout fit or do you just expect them to be good from the get go? The Scout suit sprints much faster than other suits and it has low signature profile. Scout as it's name suggests is a light suit fast and not easily detected if you're not looking at it, it's great for sniping as scout snipers are notoriously hard to find, dropping advanced spawn points before anyone even notices you were in the area and just general point harassment. The scout shotgun fit is a very popular build at the moment. You can move around, behind and kill someone without ever appearing on their radar, even heavies or proto suits. Against shotguns at near point blank range nothing stands long. If you're trying to take on another suit head on with a scout suit you're doing something wrong, don't fit to tank them because more like than not you will be shredded, build for flexibility. Ludvig Enraga wrote: Do you play a scout or you are making an observation based on what you have seen other ppl do? I can tell you I speced into scout. The sprint speed is a joke it's marginally better than that of an assault suit. Shotguns are incredibly short range. Also, unlike most ppl think you cannot one-pop a heavy with you SG, except maybe for the proto breach variant (which you would not be using because it would involve equipping a very expensive weapon on a very vulnerable suit that's prone to dying). As far as stealth goes, you can also sneak up on ppl in assault suits that don't light up on the grid. As far as dropping uplinks or harassing the enemy goes, imo those are just excuses that ppl make up to cover up the fact that scout is not worth much by itself - what I mean is that who would want to spec into scout just to drop some uplinks in some theoretically stealthy way. I can say with all honesty I have not put a single point into scout suits but do use a 'Dragonfly' scout suit fit as a shot gunner and run about 2/1 - 4/1 when I use it I have a Malitia shotgun, Complex damage mod, Standard Locus grenade, Basic profile dampener, Basic armour repper and a nano hive. My defences are paper thin I'll give you that but my stealth makes up for it and I can get behind enemies so long as I play it smart. Whether it's a shotgun to the back, face, side or lobbing in a grenade from an unexpected direction, I find it invaluable. And how can you call harassing an excuse? It's a valid tactic, snuck up on a few guys OHK one in the back the rest chased me, got them low with a grenade, ran around a corner, they chased, right into a heavy with a HMG and they all died. Everyone wins. It's all how you play it that makes the difference. All those things that you mentioned can be done with practically any suit. Stealth is not exclusive to scout suits. They have a stealth bonus - true but the total sum of perks that scout has relative to say an assault suit is outweighed by its relative shortcomings when it comes to direct combat. When ppl say that scout is supposed to play a support role, I just don't know what that even means. It's like when ppl used to say that Mass Driver was fine in the last few builds because it was a solid 'support weapon'. In reality however, two AR used to hands down outperform an AR and MD combo in a squad. The same is true of scout I think. In the example that you offered you had one scout and one heavy with HMG. If you swapped it for two heavies with HMG the results would have been even more dramatic for the opposing team. While 4/1 sounds like a very solid KDR the question that this begs is how many red dots do you kill on average per game. If it's less than 10, the argument for scout is not all that convincing.