Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
145
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 18:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now, I just had this thought, and it is a topic that comes up if you have ever been an armed protector of society (i.e., military, police, etc.), about whether or not CCP has thought about the addition or just the possibility to add a bit more to the mix outside of Nullsec friendly fire?
What about, since most of what we, as Dusters, are going in and either defending or attempting to seize are industrial outposts that are more than likely serviced by a skeleton crew and drones, the inclusion of noncombatant civilians. They could produce a penalty in contract payouts due to the need for payment of damages because of unnecessary loss of life. Who's to say some time down the road that we don't start taking capital planets and seats of government?
Just something to think about. Or what about IF ship boardings with Dusters won't be implemented for Titans, or industrial freighters?
|
Firedog32 The Boss
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 18:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Now, I just had this thought, and it is a topic that comes up if you have ever been an armed protector of society (i.e., military, police, etc.), about whether or not CCP has thought about the addition or just the possibility to add a bit more to the mix outside of Nullsec friendly fire?
What about, since most of what we, as Dusters, are going in and either defending or attempting to seize are industrial outposts that are more than likely serviced by a skeleton crew and drones, the inclusion of noncombatant civilians. They could produce a penalty in contract payouts due to the need for payment of damages because of unnecessary loss of life. Who's to say some time down the road that we don't start taking capital planets and seats of government?
Just something to think about. Or what about IF ship boardings with Dusters won't be implemented for Titans, or industrial freighters?
Sorry I only speak idiot not your fancy stuff.
|
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
295
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 19:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think we could have some installations populated by civilians or worker drones and incur penalties. It would add challenge and add some life to the places we are fighting.
As far as morality goes I'll be siding with the Minmatar and throwing explosives at the Amarr at every opportunity. |
Foley Jones
R.I.f.t
122
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 19:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
I already made the idea of ship boarding along with a bunch of other people sadly (noob mistake) but frankly I also didn't understand this |
dent 308
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
966
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 19:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Morality is for mortals.
|
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 19:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
There is no good vs evil in New Eden. No matter what side you pick, you picked the wrong side if you want to be goody two shoes.
As the amarrians would say.
All have sinned and come short in the glory of the Emperess. |
howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 19:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Call it morality if you like, just make it like real life: civilian casualties cost the team isk penalties at payout. Make it about profit. That's what aMERiC...I mean Mercs...that's what mercs do |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Civilian casualties could be the goal sometimes.
EvE had many missions to eliminate witness, or kill a single spy on a cruise ship by blowing the whole thing up(they know a spy is on board, but not who it is, only way to be sure), or cut the oxygen or food supply to a settlement.
Some missions/modes they could be penalized isk, others could give a bonus for civilian deaths. People could make the moral choice to decline missions they think are war crimes. In eve, after declining the agent giving the missions complains about your morals and how they'll just find someone else.
The damage a dust weapon would do to a unprotected person would be quite horrific. Unreal engine supports blowing limbs off doesn't it? A single smg round would be on hit kill, and the blast weapons would probably be lethal at double the radius without the suits.
Blood raiders collect blood, Amarr have slave raids, Minmatar free slaves(bonus for killing the amarr masters and penalty for hitting a slave?) Pvp with civilian bots fleeing for lives would be interesting. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1031
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
The idea of morality in the game is like having the Pope do a weekly blog on he favorite **** stars.
We get paid to kill people. Go play Sims if you want to worry about civs |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 21:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Morality in New Eden is a moot point. In New Eden, everyone is an antagonist. There are no protagonists.
When an Eve player losses a ship, no one cares about what happens to the crew that serviced that ship while the player flees in his pod. When Jita was burned, no one cared about what happened to the countless lives that were lost when those freighters undocked with expensive cargo. No one cares about the fact that slaves are being bought and sold in the player driven market... maybe the Minmatar care. But no one cares about buying and selling crates full of hookers.
I didn't care when I blew up a crate full of genetically modified animals floating in space. I didn't care when I suicide ganked fellow miners in high sec.
Morality? Please, take that crap somewhere else. |
|
fenrir storm
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
314
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 21:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Don't people play games to escape this, and when you are given a moral choice most pick the wrong thing to do because it is a game. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 21:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
I actually like this idea, I always love additional factors to expand strategic possibility.
And like Ten-Sidhe said, civilian genocide doesn't have to be a bad thing for the mission |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 21:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
fenrir storm wrote:Don't people play games to escape this, and when you are given a moral choice most pick the wrong thing to do because it is a game.
Hardly anyone complained about the airport scene in Modern Warfare 2. |
OgTheEnigma
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 22:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:The idea of morality in the game is like having the Pope do a weekly blog on he favorite **** stars.
We get paid to kill people. Go play Sims if you want to worry about civs The best thing about the Sims is trapping them in a room and setting it on fire. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 22:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
would be a interesting addition, it would be a personal choice and some people may go out of there way to minamize collateral, i know personally i will go out of my way to not hit civies (mostly anyways), and i will definity go out of my way to kill every amarr civilian/ vehicle/ building if possible in the combat zone, a tracked stat would be interesting to see who is the biggest war criminal to each race hell alot of us would pride our selfs with such titals |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
145
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 06:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:The idea of morality in the game is like having the Pope do a weekly blog on he favorite **** stars.
We get paid to kill people. Go play Sims if you want to worry about civs
I wasn't asking for your input Beers. Keep your trolling wanker to yourself. |
Fluffeh Ingle
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 06:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There is no good vs evil in New Eden. No matter what side you pick, you picked the wrong side if you want to be goody two shoes.
As the amarrians would say.
All have sinned and come short in the glory of the Emperess.
I know some other foolish men in Power Armor who say almost the same thing. At least there is no worship of a corpse in a fancy box here. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 10:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Someone needs to read up on EVE lore...
Every day countless millions of people 'die' in ships blown up by capsuleers, or in capsuleer ships, and no pod pilot even cares. The crew of the ship you're piloting automatically get counted as dead the moment your ship blows up, and compensation is sent to the families.
Funny thing is that a large portion of the crew actually manages to evacuate in time yet compensation is paid anyway cause screw the paperwork we're so damn filthy rich and even just 10,000 ISK net worth is counted as super-rich amongst normal people. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 12:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
morality in New Eden explained. It's a simple process in stages.
Is it mine? Yes. I'll kill you if you touch it.
Is it mine? no. Can I buy it? Yes. It's mine and I'll kill you if you touch it.
Is it mine? no. Can I buy it? No. Can I steal it? Yes. it's mine and I'll kill you if you touch it.
Is it mine? no. Can I buy it? No. Can I steal it? No. Can I kill you and take it? Yes. (see above)
Is it mine? no. Can I buy it? No. Can I steal it? no. Can I kill you and take it? No.
Yes, I can kill you and take it. I brought a fleet *****. It's mine and I'll kill you again if you touch it. I salvaged your equipment and sold your corpses for biomass.
You now understand morality in New Eden |
Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
176
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 12:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:morality in New Eden explained. It's a simple process in stages.
Is it mine? Yes. I'll kill you if you touch it.
Is it mine? no. Can I buy it? Yes. It's mine and I'll kill you if you touch it.
Is it mine? no. Can I buy it? No. Can I steal it? Yes. it's mine and I'll kill you if you touch it.
Is it mine? no. Can I buy it? No. Can I steal it? No. Can I kill you and take it? Yes. (see above)
Is it mine? no. Can I buy it? No. Can I steal it? no. Can I kill you and take it? No.
Yes, I can kill you and take it. I brought a fleet *****. It's mine and I'll kill you again if you touch it. I salvaged your equipment and sold your corpses for biomass.
You now understand morality in New Eden
Survival of the Fittest. In New Eden there are No laws of armed combat. No one has salvaged the geneva convetions. |
|
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 17:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'd burn down a facility for no reason than to watch the workers running and screaming while on fire... They said I could keep my stapler...
|
G Sacred
Rubber Chicken Bombers
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 20:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
My brain hurts... |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 21:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
I was thinking of something like this, but not directly on the scale of "killing civilians"- more of a contract saying to do something like to neutralize orbital artillery, but you'll get paid more if you keep it intact for you to use later. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 21:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think this would be great for PvE, and maybe have them in dif. game modes. I like the idea of more challenges and keeping your fire in check would be the same for when FF gets implemented.
Don't need this yet but some time down the road I would like to see civies hiding and u escort them out or kill them or leave them. Depending on mission at hand. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 22:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hey guys New Eden is dumb and irrelevant happy to help. Let's talk about the actual game as a crazy alternative.
Game modes to keep civilians alive/rescue people/whatever would be interesting. Who didn't like rescuing hostages in Counter-strike? The only real issue I think might arise is with technical limitations of the engine/CCP and whether you could even have a skeleton crew of civilians at a facility without causing noticeable frame rate loss.
Otherwise, though, it'd be an interesting gameplay mechanic to have people in matches you're penalized for killing, and even have some matches where your goal might be to capture, rescue, or even assassinate a certain civilian target. |
Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
176
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 23:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Hey guys New Eden is dumb and irrelevant happy to help. Let's talk about the actual game as a crazy alternative.
Game modes to keep civilians alive/rescue people/whatever would be interesting. Who didn't like rescuing hostages in Counter-strike? The only real issue I think might arise is with technical limitations of the engine/CCP and whether you could even have a skeleton crew of civilians at a facility without causing noticeable frame rate loss.
Otherwise, though, it'd be an interesting gameplay mechanic to have people in matches you're penalized for killing, and even have some matches where your goal might be to capture, rescue, or even assassinate a certain civilian target.
I have a hard time imagining the galaxy your in while in game is irrelevant.
To Be Honest If Pilots could just destroy the planet and harvest materials that way.... there would be no mercs and a lot less planets
|
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
19
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 23:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Now, I just had this thought, and it is a topic that comes up if you have ever been an armed protector of society (i.e., military, police, etc.), about whether or not CCP has thought about the addition or just the possibility to add a bit more to the mix outside of Nullsec friendly fire?
What about, since most of what we, as Dusters, are going in and either defending or attempting to seize are industrial outposts that are more than likely serviced by a skeleton crew and drones, the inclusion of noncombatant civilians. They could produce a penalty in contract payouts due to the need for payment of damages because of unnecessary loss of life. Who's to say some time down the road that we don't start taking capital planets and seats of government?
Just something to think about. Or what about IF ship boardings with Dusters won't be implemented for Titans, or industrial freighters?
You're idea definitely would make for a potentially more enjoyable game than it is now. It would create a close mix of MMORPGFPS giving players a wider array of game options for a CORP to participate in. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 00:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Chinduko wrote:Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Now, I just had this thought, and it is a topic that comes up if you have ever been an armed protector of society (i.e., military, police, etc.), about whether or not CCP has thought about the addition or just the possibility to add a bit more to the mix outside of Nullsec friendly fire?
What about, since most of what we, as Dusters, are going in and either defending or attempting to seize are industrial outposts that are more than likely serviced by a skeleton crew and drones, the inclusion of noncombatant civilians. They could produce a penalty in contract payouts due to the need for payment of damages because of unnecessary loss of life. Who's to say some time down the road that we don't start taking capital planets and seats of government?
Just something to think about. Or what about IF ship boardings with Dusters won't be implemented for Titans, or industrial freighters?
You're idea definitely would make for a potentially more enjoyable game than it is now. It would create a close mix of MMORPGFPS giving players a wider array of game options for a CORP to participate in.
All that will not matter if the capsuleers in space decide to want to turn an entire city into a massive parking lot with a fleet of dreadnaughts hovering overhead. Then your efforts to protect the civilians will be for nothing. All because headquarters decided that it was too expensive or a waste of resources to have to deal with the local population when all that matters is the resources. |
Grims Tooth
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 01:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
We just had a game mode where we were contracted to either kill or protect a rouge agent. CCP could introduce a game mode where they replace the rouge agent with a civilian of a group of civilians and we are contracted to either assassinate or protect the civilian(s). There could be hostage rescue contracts, or on the other end of the moral spectrum, kidnapping contracts. Maybe Dust Corps could gain a reputation through these contracts as a Corp that either saves as many civilians as possible, or as a Corp that doesn't ask any questions when taking a contract. |
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 02:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
imho Multiple game play options/modes for a game that is in a persistant universe would add to the longevity of the game. New graphics and gear is all fine and good for awhile but, to keep a strong base for a long time in the realm of first person shooters, there is going to need to be a variety of game play modes, specifically in PvE. The problem is the majority of the fps crowd is always after the new shiney thing (generalities I know) and once it comes out there is little to no mention of the previous game other than a few comparisions here or there. After an iteration or two of new games, that game that came out two years ago is all but forgotten. Being able to chose not only different play options but how one goes about achieving mission satisfaction goes a long way towards the rpg side of the game and adds a layer of newness with every expansion. Ultimately Dust is a product marketed by a company, which means they have costs associated with the game and if they want to keep this game a viable money earner they cannot not add options for game modes and such and expect to keep this game earning... Another thing to consider is what happens if, after full integration with Eve, Dust fails. How bad will that mess up the Eve side of the house? |
|
Kai Onslot II
Eightfold Arrow Shadow Naval Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 02:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khal V'Rani wrote:imho Multiple game play options/modes for a game that is in a persistant universe would add to the longevity of the game. New graphics and gear is all fine and good for awhile but, to keep a strong base for a long time in the realm of first person shooters, there is going to need to be a variety of game play modes, specifically in PvE. The problem is the majority of the fps crowd is always after the new shiney thing (generalities I know) and once it comes out there is little to no mention of the previous game other than a few comparisions here or there. After an iteration or two of new games, that game that came out two years ago is all but forgotten. Being able to chose not only different play options but how one goes about achieving mission satisfaction goes a long way towards the rpg side of the game and adds a layer of newness with every expansion. Ultimately Dust is a product marketed by a company, which means they have costs associated with the game and if they want to keep this game a viable money earner they cannot not add options for game modes and such and expect to keep this game earning... Another thing to consider is what happens if, after full integration with Eve, Dust fails. How bad will that mess up the Eve side of the house?
truthfully As a capsuler that would not mess it up might help give eve back to the industrial because Friday night hulk night is kill there industry. But I will say this as for moral here in dust it is bad. In my view
|
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 02:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hulk night sounds fun... I was thinking about the economy side of things and the disruption in Eve associated with Dust failing in a few years without new options... And no I don't want Dust to fail. I like this game. But the morality side of things... Eh... It's a game, play with those that are like minded and stay away from those that aren't. Or grief 'em if that's your thing. The morality thing isn't really relevant at this stage of the game as there's no repercussions for acting "bad" or "evil". Both are relative terms anyway. Now if something were added to mark a character one way or the other that would be cool but I don't think anyone should be penalized for not conforming to someone else's view of right and wrong... In a game like this anyway. |
Minmatar Slave 74136
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 07:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
if the mission payout requires us to keep some NPC civvie alive then so be it, if it says put a scarmbler bolt in their brainpan then so be it.
Long as i'm getting paid for it. ISK is the grease that lubes the war machine... And keeps me in kibble..I get paid to kill in DUST 514.
Unless the target is Amarrian, then i'd cack him for free. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 08:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
The game modes with civilians and enemy/friendly non-dropsuit forces could be pve, or limited to 4 vs 4. The more empty of npc games would have higher player caps.
In null sec eve alliances could decide to nuke cities, but in high or low I think concord and the big four factions might stop that.
There is plenty of room for all kinds of npc interactions. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 11:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kazeno Rannaa wrote: I wasn't asking for your input Beers. Keep your trolling wanker to yourself.
Incorrect use of the word wanker, please refrain for using words you don't understand.
|
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 15:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Enji Elric wrote:I have a hard time imagining the galaxy your in while in game is irrelevant.
Then that's your shortcoming. All that matters is whether something would be fun and a good fit for the kind of game CCP is making. The worrying about how it fits into the fiction is something you can easily take care of after the fact. |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
145
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 21:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Hey guys New Eden is dumb and irrelevant happy to help. Let's talk about the actual game as a crazy alternative.
Game modes to keep civilians alive/rescue people/whatever would be interesting. Who didn't like rescuing hostages in Counter-strike? The only real issue I think might arise is with technical limitations of the engine/CCP and whether you could even have a skeleton crew of civilians at a facility without causing noticeable frame rate loss.
Otherwise, though, it'd be an interesting gameplay mechanic to have people in matches you're penalized for killing, and even have some matches where your goal might be to capture, rescue, or even assassinate a certain civilian target.
What if we could encourage members of CCP to play the civilians, rather than have them develop an AI to control them? But that is a good point on the issue of potential FR issues with the involvement of more character models on the battlefield |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
145
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 21:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Kazeno Rannaa wrote: I wasn't asking for your input Beers. Keep your trolling wanker to yourself.
Incorrect use of the word wanker, please refrain for using words you don't understand.
Depends on the lexicon of vernacular that is being applied. Just because a word, in a particular semantical understanding, is used one way in one geographic region of the planet doesn't mean that the same word couldn't have a different meaning in a different geographic region. It also doesn't stop someone from changing the contemporary understanding of the word in the process of negotiation meaning during a conversation, i.e., just because you speak English, doesn't mean you have whole sale ownership of the total possibilities of defining a word, its use, semantical understandings, and/or symbolic associations and attachments . That is how "slang" comes about and the dialectical changes in linguistics during a discursive interaction.
The world is not static, and neither is language, especially since language is our (i.e., human, ... what, you are human, right?) means of describing and understanding the world we live in and how we perceive it while interacting with it.
Pick up a book on the dynamics of applied sociolinguistics some time; you may learn something new. Also, it may help you refrain from making overly broad statements that seem to emanate from your sphincter, rather than be a statement of negotiation and desire for better understanding.
It seems the civility of yesteryear has died more than we would like to know, and instead has been replaced with ethnocentric absurdities. Remember language and culture are organic and are in a state of constantly changing. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 23:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:Kazeno Rannaa wrote: I wasn't asking for your input Beers. Keep your trolling wanker to yourself.
Incorrect use of the word wanker, please refrain for using words you don't understand. Depends on the lexicon of vernacular that is being applied. Just because a word, in a particular semantical understanding, is used one way in one geographic region of the planet doesn't mean that the same word couldn't have a different meaning in a different geographic region. It also doesn't stop someone from changing the contemporary understanding of the word in the process of negotiation meaning during a conversation, i.e., just because you speak English, doesn't mean you have whole sale ownership of the total possibilities of defining a word, its use, semantical understandings, and/or symbolic associations and attachments . That is how "slang" comes about and the dialectical changes in linguistics during a discursive interaction. The world is not static, and neither is language, especially since language is our (i.e., human, ... what, you are human, right?) means of describing and understanding the world we live in and how we perceive it while interacting with it. Pick up a book on the dynamics of applied sociolinguistics some time; you may learn something new. Also, it may help you refrain from making overly broad statements that seem to emanate from your sphincter, rather than be a statement of negotiation and desire for better understanding. It seems the civility of yesteryear has died more than we would like to know, and instead has been replaced with ethnocentric absurdities. Remember language and culture is organics and in a state of constantly changing. Indeed.
On another note- it's monday as far as GMT goes and still no patch notes.... Edit: looking at the post time, what my phone says is GMT may not be correct.... |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |