DUST Search - Please do not add PvE.

1CLIP 1KILL wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

And this fits the definition of "trolling" if you look at it the right way.

My apologies if you took it that way. I meant it more to arouse or stimulate thought and discussion. I did not see another thread that articulating my sentiments on the planned content. To avoid seeming contentious, I made an attempt not to specifically discredit or criticize other people's opinions about PvE.

I feel that the title is justifiable because I'm fairly certain that players are able to give their feedback on content that has happened or will happen. I have no delusions that the devs will change what they have already planned because of this thread. This thread is simply how I feel about coming changes. It's my feedback, and although I knew that some players would vehemently disagree with my feedback, I gave it anyways. I have not, and will not, criticize anyone's opinions or suggestions made in this thread with regards to PvE. This is to avoid people from feeling like I am just "trolling" them for a response.

But I do like what Cross Atu and a few others have posted. I wouldn't have a problem if PvE is for noobies, and PvPvE is for everyone else.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.13 08:17:00 - [1] - Quote Translation of thread: If you don't make all the stuff that makes this such an awesome and attractive game to a large variety of players, you can focus more on giving ME what I want. What do you mean "other fans"? I don't care. I only care about ME ME ME!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.16 14:17:00 - [2] - Quote Octavian Vetiver wrote: People are capable of thinking on the fly and coming up with ideas...aka problem solving. Computers are not actually capable of that yet. And we're not quite close enough to the point were we have Minds like from an Iain M. Banks book or I, Robot or anything approaching that. It's funny that people still believe that. In 1997, a game was released called Galapagos: Mendel's Escape. It had an AI-controlled main character who was capable of dynamically learning from the environment and from interactions with the player. Just because software developers DON'T make programs that are capable of dynamic adaptive behaviour, doesn't mean it isn't possible.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.16 16:56:00 - [3] - Quote Crm234 wrote: Smaller system? I didn't buy bf3 because of the beta . No that is not why and you know it. Your just trying to goat me into swearing at you and I'm not. Sp in co op will hugely effect pvp that your staying who cares about .its different to and I want it because I don't like shooters statement. If your such a fan of pvp then it doesn't matter your only getting isk from co op because its a side mission from the main part of dust. I suppose they need to remove passive SP as well, since someone can just create an account, activate passive SP, then come back 6 months later and have access to Advanced and Prototype gear and THAT'S NOT FAIR ON THE PEOPLE WHO USE PVP TO GRIND THEIR SP INSTEAD. Right? If so, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. And if not, then you're a hypocrite. PvE is a core element of the game, and will be the primary focus for many players. PvP is also a core element, but it's not the ONLY core element.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.16 16:58:00 - [4] - Quote Crm234 wrote: have you seen it done in another game no. I have. Just saying. Wasn't game-breaking there either.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.16 17:44:00 - [5] - Quote Octavian Vetiver wrote: And also for the above poster from second page. That was a single player game. Trying to make a system run it for an online game would be difficult due to not all npc's being on the same side. They made it work in single player in 1997. Would it be easy to make an adaptive AI that operates effectively online? No. It wasn't easy, and probably still isn't, to make dynamic AI that works in a single-system environment. That's not the point. The point is that 15 years ago, computers were capable of learning and responding dynamically instead of relying purely on scripted reactive behaviour. Adaptive AI has been around that long, and I'm actually surprised nobody's done much with the concept since then.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.16 19:32:00 - [6] - Quote 1CLIP 1KILL wrote: Of course it is, how many people post feedback for changes and things they do not want? I post feedback that favours an improvement to BALANCE, not feedback that favours my playstyle and makes it stronger, even though I'd love to have a shotgun that can one-shot even a Heavy suit and deals enough damage to be a legitimate threat to vehicles, and fits on my Scout dropsuit which now also has the ability to shoot and reload while sprinting, a cloaking device and 50% more armour. There have been changes I've said "this is a great idea" to which make my life more difficult. The point of feedback isn't to say "me me me" it's to say "this is what I think is BEST FOR THE GAME". This thread doesn't have any good reason why the complete removal of a planned element to the game is a good idea. It implies that PvE somehow negates the value of PvP, or that somehow a victory is less fun if the other guy is going to ragequit from PvP without having to ragequit from the entire game to do it. Pro-tip: The only way you could take that second option seriously is if you have severe mental health issues. If that's the case, you should probably seek professional help.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.16 21:28:00 - [7] - Quote 1CLIP 1KILL wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: 1CLIP 1KILL wrote: Of course it is, how many people post feedback for changes and things they do not want? I post feedback that favours an improvement to BALANCE, not feedback that favours my playstyle and makes it stronger. Maybe because you want balance in the game? Do you make suggestions to make the game imbalanced? Does your style of play not favor a balanced game? My preferred playstyle is focused on close-range weapons, Shotguns and SMGs being the main ones. Giving those weapons a massive buff would suit my playstyle, and so would either a large buff to Assault speed or Scout durability, but I know that, while those would be great for me, personally, they'd break the game for a lot of other players who enjoy the other aspects of the game, so I don't support balance-destroying advantages being given to what I, personally, prefer to do in the game. I probably won't take too much advantage of the PvE side of the game, because I'm more interested in PvP. I'll play it, and I have a gaming clan who will hopefully provide me with a good supply of teammates on both sides of the fence, but PvP is where I intend to focus more of my playtime. But while I don't much care on a personal level about the PvE aspect, it's an advertised part of the game and it's a draw-point for a large portion of the playerbase, many of whom will ALSO play in the PvP side of the game. Having both doesn't reduce the PvP playerbase, it gives it the potential to expand beyond JUST the usual multiplayer FPS crowd and gain some attention (and possible more players) from the PvE guys. Quote: The title is provocative so people will post their opinion about PvE. Obviously, PvE will be in the game. And this fits the definition of "trolling" if you look at it the right way.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.18 03:19:00 - [8] - Quote 1CLIP 1KILL wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: And this fits the definition of "trolling" if you look at it the right way. My apologies if you took it that way. I meant it more to arouse or stimulate thought and discussion. I did not see another thread that articulating my sentiments on the planned content. To avoid seeming contentious, I made an attempt not to specifically discredit or criticize other people's opinions about PvE. I feel that the title is justifiable because I'm fairly certain that players are able to give their feedback on content that has happened or will happen. I have no delusions that the devs will change what they have already planned because of this thread. This thread is simply how I feel about coming changes. It's my feedback, and although I knew that some players would vehemently disagree with my feedback, I gave it anyways. I have not, and will not, criticize anyone's opinions or suggestions made in this thread with regards to PvE. This is to avoid people from feeling like I am just "trolling" them for a response. But I do like what Cross Atu and a few others have posted. I wouldn't have a problem if PvE is for noobies, and PvPvE is for everyone else. Sorry, I wasn't meaning that your comment WAS trolling, just mentioning that the way you phrased it left you very wide open to someone interpreting it that way. I think there was an element of trolling to the thread title though, because basically, the point of trolling is to aggravate people and make them react - pretty much the reasoning you gave behind the thread title. It's not there to actually present your opinion, and while you knew it would be a primary focus of any feedback you encouraged, it's not actually the core of what you wanted people talking about. It's RELEVANT, but it's just far enough from the intended conversation - and from your actual opinion - not be quite as accurate as a less aggressive title would have been. After re-reading the thread a couple of times, i can better understand where you're coming from, but I don't think you're right in wanting no "pure" PvE options for high-tier players. There should be limitations on PvE, but those limitations should NEVER prevent someone from playing the game how they choose. if someone wants to play PvE, there should be a diminished reward to balance out the reduced risks. The income you get for pure PvE (as opposed to "interruptible" PvE, or PvPvE as you're calling it) should pretty much eliminate the use of Advanced/Prototype fittings, and should probably be a limiting factor in the use of vehicles. Anything that costs money - at all - should be something you think VERY carefully before throwing into a PvE battle, because losing it will cost a much larger portion of your profits than in PvP. Also, yes, all gear should be balanced primarily around the PvP multiplayer aspects, then everything else can build from that starting point. Basically, while a player CAN grind away in HighSec PvE, they won't be seeing anywhere near the kind of profit that you can earn from PvP.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.18 12:23:00 - [9] - Quote Crm234 wrote: Like every other MMORPG you hit A and then a Random hit generator starts where spread sheet number hits or misses them and then the npc character spread sheet number hits you . Obviously never played DCUO or Age of Conan. Quote: That is how every core RPG game mechanic whether you bend it or not and tweak it. The only thing that has changed from dungeons and dragons is the computer random generator versus rolling dice. Still obviously never played DCUO or Age of Conan, but also never played Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Dragons Dogma, etc. Quote: Ill be happy to admit i dont very much care for MMORPG But you're perfectly happy to make sweeping claims about the entire genre, and including the wider RPG genre in part of your fail generalisation in spite of that lack of interest? Good job. Maybe you should only comment on a genre when you actually KNOW what you're talking about, instead of picking up a few basics from the most mainsteam examples and assuming they apply universally?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.18 14:59:00 - [10] - Quote Crm234 wrote: we don't want another generic shooter that is funny because they don't want a shooter at all . Yes only I make sweeping comments because there is no other game besides COD in the FPS genre and even when we acknowledge another there is no differences from COD so its basically COD to us. Nobody accused you of ONLY making sweeping comments, or being the ONLY person who does so. Good job of missing the point. Quote: Dont worry CCP got your back and will do what you want Eve players.Dust will be known as Eve 2.0 to the PS3 community because of its inability to let go but screaming were making something different, You better hope Planetside 2 doesn't come to the PS4 or your dead in the water because right now you think you can do no wrong because there is no other game saying MMOFPS. Yes. We'll have to "hope" that Sony keeps their PC-exclusive and PS3-exclusive games which promote themselves as "MMOFPS" (which honestly, I don't think DUST fits the requirements for) on separate platforms instead of pitting them against one another directly. That's a very likely thing for Sony to do. And we really have to hope that the people who want a game with co-op and solo play options as well as competitive multiplayer don't abandon a game that offers those things and move to a pure PvP experience. There's definitely a huge risk of players who want to invest themselves in a game that gives them a REAL sense of consequences running to a different game that doesn't offer any kind of persistent world over which to fight, and only fills the "MMO" aspect by having a large player count per battle. Quote: I dont have to let go as a FPS player im not looking for a new playerbase to complement my old one. Every FPS player saw Dust as a Massive Pvp game and waited a year to get into the beta and now Eve players want drones so were getting drones completely saying go screw yourself FPS players once again. I rather play a Ea game sometimes because at least you know where you stand with them,they dont care about you. And as another FPS player, I shouldn't have to let go of my hopes for the game just because they don't match what you want out of a game that's obviously being designed - at least in part - for a demographic you're not part of. Quote: Oh someone pointed out the small sub genre of action RPG`s that once again is not what Dust is classified as. Once again someone didn't read previous post that would be pretty helpful in 4 page thread instead just reading the main title and replying the same rebuttal that was reply to by the last ten guys that asked your same question, Also you missed kingdom of hearts that I like to , just for that 11th guy that asked the same question as a rebuttal. You weren't talking about games like DUST though. You were talking about RPGs, of which there are many which don't come anywhere near fitting into the box you were trying to stuff the genre into. In some parts, you were talking about MMORPGs in particular, and using EVE as an example to "prove" that ALL RPGs work the same way when they clearly don't. I provided examples that demonstrated why you were incorrect in the assumptions you were making. Quote: Im tired of replying to insults and quotes if you don't want me to speak stop quoting me just answer the I want Pve in Eve without quoting and insulting me in the thread While you're leaving gaping holes in your attempts at logic, I'll pick at those holes and watch your argument fall apart under the weight of its inadequacies. If you build up something that I can't pull down, I'll concede the point, but so far, you're making it REALLY easy for me. EDIT: As for the not-quoted first part of your post, I make most of the same arguments against the less-coherent attempts at rewriting the game universe to suit a particular taste instead of building a good game that works within the universe, and I've literally NEVER played EVE Online in my life. I've watched over a friend's shoulder while he played for about half an hour at a time while we were living together, but that's it. I use those arguments because I have respect for the concept of an extablished universe and story, and for a world that follows its own rules instead of making up new ones with each new release.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.18 16:34:00 - [11] - Quote 1CLIP 1KILL wrote: edit again: I'm not too weird though. I don't play MS Flight Simulator anymore =/. I quit MS Flight Sim when Flight Unlimited came out. I miss that game. And my Sidewinder joystick.