DUST Search - Easily my biggest complaint about DUST. Or, "Not this thread again."

Leither Yiltron wrote:

Should we reduce fleet size to 4 in Eve as well as long as you're in high sec? This should keep industrial players feeling safe and playing the game. Should CCP have stopped Burn Jita? It would have probably saved them some industrial subscriptions. Maybe even a lot of them.

The squad caps largely miss the whole spirit of the sandbox, and actually don't keep new players playing the game. We've seen this tons of times, and (*GASP*) even with MAG and (*GASP*) BF3 on PS3 and (*GASP*) Killzone 3.

When imposing low caps on player groups in any capacity, all you're doing is ruining the enjoyment of the player corporations that drive your game forward. In fact, you're crippling them and crippling your capacity to move forward as a social game. Corp matches are all fine and good, but they're scheduled for the moment and also very quickly over. Being able to schedule corp matches consistently enough to keep your player base entertained while not scheduling so many that you're losing money on fizzles is nothing less than a ***** of a problem. Even if this equilibrium position eventually gets reached, it will result in a lower activity level and a higher burnt out rate for the guys actually organizing battles.

It seems forgotten that compared to a player base of even 10k concurrent users, the number of battles with full corp teams in a public match making setting is going to be low compared to the total number. It also seems forgotten that once there's a reason to save ISK, nobody in their right mind is going to go into high sec matches with all prototype gear. The risk just isn't worth the reward when a similar reward can be gotten with smaller risk.

Let's take a look at Planetside 2, a game many of the people reading this post have played and possibly enjoyed. There's no group limit in Planetside 2, but the game has been a huge free to play success. New players haven't suddenly left in droves after being beaten by huge outfits. Limiting the squads and platoons in PS2 to a particular size would be pointless, and in fact doing so would just be a disservice to those people who organize such large numbers of players.

If there isn't a function where any reasonably sized corporate group can press a button and be in a casual match quickly and without fuss, the corps of Dust 514 will atrophy and eventually the core audience of this game will leave.

Most of the counterarguments here have been given by representatives of smaller corporations who stand to gain in the short term from a limited group size. Seeing past that bias is important, because a huge swathe of the Dust player base is invested in playing with their friends and corp mates. Not against them, not in tiny groups, but with all the guys they've come to know and appreciate over a history of FPS gaming.


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Umbat Boki Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2012.12.10 05:49:00 - [1] - Quote Yes, I agree with you, squad size should be changed. It should be 3. I wonder how some people, who really just want to farm guinea pigs, are so eagerly trying to find some logical reasoning behind this. One more point I'd like top bring. You should understand that if the current number of players playing DUST remains when the game is released, it'll be a dead game. There will be more people and you won't meet your clan mates in an opposite team as often as you do now. In every game it's very important how new players think about a game. In F2P game, this is even more important. No one like to be stomped by a team full of corp mates. There is far more people who don't want to be bothered about a corp, who just want to login in to a game time to time and play an hour or two. If you won't think about those people, I don't believe your F2P game have any chance to live.
Umbat Boki Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2012.12.10 07:20:00 - [2] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Should we reduce fleet size to 4 in Eve as well as long as you're in high sec? This should keep industrial players feeling safe and playing the game. Should CCP have stopped Burn Jita? It would have probably saved them some industrial subscriptions. Maybe even a lot of them. The squad caps largely miss the whole spirit of the sandbox, and actually don't keep new players playing the game. We've seen this tons of times, and (GASP) even with MAG and (GASP) BF3 on PS3 and (GASP) Killzone 3. When imposing low caps on player groups in any capacity, all you're doing is ruining the enjoyment of the player corporations that drive your game forward. In fact, you're crippling them and crippling your capacity to move forward as a social game. Corp matches are all fine and good, but they're scheduled for the moment and also very quickly over. Being able to schedule corp matches consistently enough to keep your player base entertained while not scheduling so many that you're losing money on fizzles is nothing less than a ***** of a problem. Even if this equilibrium position eventually gets reached, it will result in a lower activity level and a higher burnt out rate for the guys actually organizing battles. It seems forgotten that compared to a player base of even 10k concurrent users, the number of battles with full corp teams in a public match making setting is going to be low compared to the total number. It also seems forgotten that once there's a reason to save ISK, nobody in their right mind is going to go into high sec matches with all prototype gear. The risk just isn't worth the reward when a similar reward can be gotten with smaller risk. Let's take a look at Planetside 2, a game many of the people reading this post have played and possibly enjoyed. There's no group limit in Planetside 2, but the game has been a huge free to play success. New players haven't suddenly left in droves after being beaten by huge outfits. Limiting the squads and platoons in PS2 to a particular size would be pointless, and in fact doing so would just be a disservice to those people who organize such large numbers of players. If there isn't a function where any reasonably sized corporate group can press a button and be in a casual match quickly and without fuss, the corps of Dust 514 will atrophy and eventually the core audience of this game will leave. Most of the counterarguments here have been given by representatives of smaller corporations who stand to gain in the short term from a limited group size. Seeing past that bias is important, because a huge swathe of the Dust player base is invested in playing with their friends and corp mates. Not against them, not in tiny groups, but with all the guys they've come to know and appreciate over a history of FPS gaming. You're missing the point that number of players outside of any corps is significantly higher then number of players in a corp. The problem you're describing is the corp battle system itself. It's ok with me if you can press a button and join corpVScorp match. However, if only thing that you want is to roflstomp randoms, I don't like this and I believe that no players without corp will like it. Your comparison with PS2 is Incorrect. If you bring 16 players from your corp, randoms can bring 50 and do fine. When number of players in each side is limited, you can't allow corpVSrandoms matches. You can look how WoW and WoT handles this, if you're going to compare with most successful P2P and F2P games (in my opinion).
Umbat Boki Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2012.12.10 09:15:00 - [3] - Quote PAUL BERNARD wrote: Why can't I play with my all my friends. Earn SP and ISK. Have fun. And not have the pressure of having to win a corp match. Because it will ruin fun for randoms you will stomp on. Let say you played 10 matches against randoms. Only you and your corp will have fun. However, you will ruin fun for 10x players. Although someone here thinks that players in corps are more important, I can assure you that we aren't less important and we're in greater numbers than you.
Umbat Boki Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2012.12.10 11:56:00 - [4] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: You're super defensive, Mav. Maybe you should take a break from ranting incoherently, yeah? I think he is right. He wrote it in harsh words though. I'd like to add one more argument. The current content in the beta is mostly content for randoms. The current corpVScorp battles mechanic looks like placeholder for me. I no doubt think it will be largely extended. What was promised by CCP for corps is territory and resource warfare, cooperation with EVE universe, conquest game mode and a lot more. Leave instance matchmaking system for randoms, we won't have a lot (horde-style PvE, yes, but it isn't on horizon yet).
Umbat Boki Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2012.12.10 15:16:00 - [5] - Quote Jaiden Longshot wrote: I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Mavado, to a degree... ... We can have different group size in different SS and balance it with ISK limit. For instance, 1.0-0.9 - no groups at all - MAX 50k ISK per match 0.8-0.7 - 4 merc group - MAX 100k ISK per match 0.7-0.5 - 5-6 merc group only - MAX 200k ISK per match etc.