DUST Search - (Request) Fixing Forge Guns.

Altina McAlterson wrote:

I've taken out a black ops HAV *nearly* single-handedly. I say nearly because I did the vast majority of the damage but I wasn't alone. He made a bad call and went in to a tight area and got surrounded by probably 8 or 9 of us and he got stuck trying to back out. 3 flux grenades and 4 blasts from the assault forge did him in while everyone else chucked locus grenades and shot him with their AR's. They did about much damage as calling your dad a motherf*cker but they made it hard for the guys in the tank to find me before I could take it down.

30 minutes earlier I lost 7 forge fits to the same gunloggi because I'm stubborn as hell and I really, really hate tanks. Point is that to you and your loss it seems unbalanced but trust me when I say in the long run forge gunners will lose just as much. We just lose it bit by bit. How many matches did you go without losing a tank? How many kills did you get before you got exploded? How much ISK did you make beforehand? Teamwork and driver stupidity kills tanks, not "OP" forge guns.

I actually got to play and entire ambush 1 v 1 with a tank driver who's top 10 or 15 on the leaderboards and just I kept throwing AV suits under his treads because I wanted to see just what it was like to go toe to toe with a tank. I did everything I could think of, even tried one of those 300k ISK advanced fits the OP mentioned, and I never even got him to 50% shields before he would kill me. Seems pretty balanced to me.

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DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:51:00 - [31] - Quote Nicol Bolas Planeswalker wrote: Screw it. Buff the FG. and what... make vehicles completely unplayable?
Piercing Serenity Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 181	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:24:00 - [32] - Quote I did a quick stint as a forge gunner, so I'll speak from a little experience. Unless you spec into shield, FG's will eat through your tank. No question. Armor has no love as it is, so if the OP is an armor tanker, then there's your problem. Secondly, the main issue I had in taking out tanks was there mobility. Even if I found the 'perfect' spot, I still have to adjust to the tank backing out of the area. At most my forge gun was a deterrent, not a destroyer. Thirdly, the aggressiveness of the driver really makes or breaks the tank. I have solo'd tanks that trying to meet the one man army standard before the hotfix. To help solve your forge gun issues, have a rain gun dedicated for scoping the area for any flashes - forge gunners have to be within about a meter of that flash at any given point. Don't try to take out every single dropsuit you see. Just as I have to pick my battles when it comes to fighting heavies, you must pick your battles with FG's. Cheers, PSN: PiercingSerenity Country: U.S Class: Assault, Heavy Corp: Shattered Ascension [SH4T]
Sylwester Dziewiecki Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.12.05 11:54:00 - [33] - Quote Forge gunner can fit from one to three(at prototype dropsuit) modules that give him +10%(- penalty) to his forge dmg, while gellente militia tank have 4 slot for that modules and they are giving +20%(- penalty)to main gun dmg. The main target in this game is to take control of certain structures on the surface of planet, and secure them from retaking it by enemy team. If you are sitting in your warm tank and preventing bunch of dudes to retake one of NULL cannons while other bunch of guys is keep trying to kill you, and your whole team are able to take other objectives without any major problems, and you do not see this as a some kind of success, then your sense of reality is broke(problems with ego maybe?). Forge guns do not need nerf. Referring to topic name they actually need to be fix: direct shoot and splash are not always register(or scouts sometimes jump three feet upwards or laaags are making they tricks), something with actual weapon range is **** up - it's shows 100% efficiency on target that is 400m far away but breach forge gun is not efficiency at this range.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:27:00 - [34] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: xMarauder wrote: [quote=DarkShadowFox][quote=Ludvig Enraga] on the order of 6 m/sec. Cutting tanks back to only moving at 6 m/s? No way. That's completely ridiculous and wrong. Why is it wrong? What I see now is that AV are extremely ineffective against tanks - it literaly takes a dumb tank driver to lose one. How can you make it more balanced? -Decrease damage of tank? - No. We saw that happen and now ppl dont want to play with tanks anymore -Decrease HP of a tank? - No. It would not be a tank then. - Increase DMG on FG? - No. Let's not even go there, most ppl would say. So, decreasing tank mobility is the only reasonalbe way. If it takes 2 dings from a FG to take out a tank, that's at least 15 consequtive seconds of FG charge cycling -- oh wait! you gotta reload it cuz it got only 4 rounds - make it 20-25sec. How far would a tank be in half a minute if it started taking dmg? That's right it would be long gone. That's why tanks are relatively risk free save inherent risks of idiot drivers, which grow out of it really fast too btw.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:32:00 - [35] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: xMarauder wrote: [quote=DarkShadowFox][quote=Ludvig Enraga] on the order of 6 m/sec. Cutting tanks back to only moving at 6 m/s? No way. That's completely ridiculous and wrong. Why is it wrong? What I see now is that AV are extremely ineffective against tanks - it literaly takes a dumb tank driver to lose one. How can you make it more balanced? -Decrease damage of tank? - No. We saw that happen and now ppl dont want to play with tanks anymore -Decrease HP of a tank? - No. It would not be a tank then. - Increase DMG on FG? - No. Let's not even go there, most ppl would say. So, decreasing tank mobility is the only reasonalbe way. If it takes 2 dings from a FG to take out a tank, that's at least 15 consequtive seconds of FG charge cycling -- oh wait! you gotta reload it cuz it got only 4 rounds - make it 20-25sec. How far would a tank be in half a minute if it started taking dmg? That's right it would be long gone. That's why tanks are relatively risk free save inherent risks of idiot drivers, which grow out of it really fast too btw. Eh I still think dropping the range to where they have to get in close to use AV, you have to use AV grenades to get in close right? Why not have forge guns have a 50 meter range... or something really really short like AV grenades.
Khal V'Rani Nephilim Initiative 90	Posted - 2012.12.06 06:35:00 - [36] - Quote No need to nerf the forge gunners. None whatsoever. There is already a counter in place. Snipers. Yeah I said it. And here's why: A forger gunner needs to peak their head out to take a shot. That shot hits the tank, the tanker quotes an expletive and moves to cover while calling it over the comms. A sniper team (notice TEAM) adjusts glass and scans for the forge gunner. Forge gun is now charged, causing glowing, making it a bit easier to locate, while looking for the next shot. Sniper team locates target, locks in on the fatal T and pulls triggers. Problem solved. Though this approach involves teamwork with snipers... And we can't have that now can we? I was effectively surpressed by a sniper while forge gunning yesterday. While it didn't kill me the effect was not lost on me. I had to move locations and lost LOS on the tank. Bad snipers! BAD! Helping the team like that. The nerve of some people...
Sylwester Dziewiecki Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.12.06 07:11:00 - [37] - Quote DarkShadowFox wrote: Eh I still think dropping the range to where they have to get in close to use AV, you have to use AV grenades to get in close right? Why not have forge guns have a 50 meter range... or something really really short like AV grenades. That is poor example and you know it
E-Dino Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2012.12.06 07:36:00 - [38] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: DarkShadowFox wrote: Eh I still think dropping the range to where they have to get in close to use AV, you have to use AV grenades to get in close right? Why not have forge guns have a 50 meter range... or something really really short like AV grenades. That is poor example and you know it That's some severe gimpage for forge gunners :(
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2012.12.06 09:42:00 - [39] - Quote E-Dino wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: DarkShadowFox wrote: Eh I still think dropping the range to where they have to get in close to use AV, you have to use AV grenades to get in close right? Why not have forge guns have a 50 meter range... or something really really short like AV grenades. That is poor example and you know it That's some severe gimpage for forge gunners :( Yeah. I don't see a kinetic slug three to four time the size of a .50 caliber round, traveling at 7000+ meters per second, only making it 50 meters. Applying realistic physics, It should have an effective range way beyond what the game already limits it too.
Khal V'Rani Nephilim Initiative 90	Posted - 2012.12.06 10:12:00 - [40] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Yeah. I don't see a kinetic slug three to four time the size of a .50 caliber round, traveling at 7000+ meters per second, only making it 50 meters. Applying realistic physics, It should have an effective range way beyond what the game already limits it too. I've tried that argument with map size and sniper rifles. Apparently no one cares if they believe there's some sort of injustice done to them and there personal sense of order and play style or strategy. Sniper rifles, per description, state 2500m/s. That means almost zero travel time at 200 meters, 400 meters, 1000 meters. People apparently can't read descriptions and reason things out. A basic militia sniper rifle says 2500m/s, The only argument I can think of is... is that number shown in the descriptions operational distance, planning distance, optimal distance, max distance? And it still really doesn't matter at this point as the map size is small enough to make travel time irrelevant at those speeds. Sorry, had to get it out of my system.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.06 12:05:00 - [41] - Quote Khal V'Rani wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Yeah. I don't see a kinetic slug three to four time the size of a .50 caliber round, traveling at 7000+ meters per second, only making it 50 meters. Applying realistic physics, It should have an effective range way beyond what the game already limits it too. I've tried that argument with map size and sniper rifles. Apparently no one cares if they believe there's some sort of injustice done to them and there personal sense of order and play style or strategy. Sniper rifles, per description, state 2500m/s. That means almost zero travel time at 200 meters, 400 meters, 1000 meters. People apparently can't read descriptions and reason things out. A basic militia sniper rifle says 2500m/s, The only argument I can think of is... is that number shown in the descriptions operational distance, planning distance, optimal distance, max distance? And it still really doesn't matter at this point as the map size is small enough to make travel time irrelevant at those speeds. Sorry, had to get it out of my system. And another example is Railgun turrets on tanks. By DUST standards, those should have practically infinite range and no travel time on their projectiles as well.
Khal V'Rani Nephilim Initiative 90	Posted - 2012.12.06 12:52:00 - [42] - Quote Hey Garrett, As far as what you mentioned about railgun range I've never looked at it so I'll take your word for it if that's okay It's fine as the turn time is painfully slow, so is the charge rate. I say find cover. There are plenty or counters to, other tanks, swarms, forge guns, missles, whatever else CCP may have in the works... I didn't mean to rant but the constant call for nerfs gets old. There are plenty of ways to counter built in already. Until recently I couldn't counter anything but an LAV. Now with a single forge gun I've had whole squads hunt me down and put me down. Quite an effective counter I might say. But like I said before I like a challenge and until I've exhausted all possible means, to include teamwork I won't call for a nerf... maybe the other guy is just plain better. It happens.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2012.12.07 05:57:00 - [43] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Khal V'Rani wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Yeah. I don't see a kinetic slug three to four time the size of a .50 caliber round, traveling at 7000+ meters per second, only making it 50 meters. Applying realistic physics, It should have an effective range way beyond what the game already limits it too. I've tried that argument with map size and sniper rifles. Apparently no one cares if they believe there's some sort of injustice done to them and there personal sense of order and play style or strategy. Sniper rifles, per description, state 2500m/s. That means almost zero travel time at 200 meters, 400 meters, 1000 meters. People apparently can't read descriptions and reason things out. A basic militia sniper rifle says 2500m/s, The only argument I can think of is... is that number shown in the descriptions operational distance, planning distance, optimal distance, max distance? And it still really doesn't matter at this point as the map size is small enough to make travel time irrelevant at those speeds. Sorry, had to get it out of my system. And another example is Railgun turrets on tanks. By DUST standards, those should have practically infinite range and no travel time on their projectiles as well. And something else that needs to be kept in mind is that we're limited to a tiny area of the full maps to force us into tight conflict. Things are going to drastically change when we're using the full map. I believe those "infinite" range complaints will suddenly become complaints about not having enough range.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 363	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:01:00 - [44] - Quote I've taken out a black ops HAV nearly single-handedly. I say nearly because I did the vast majority of the damage but I wasn't alone. He made a bad call and went in to a tight area and got surrounded by probably 8 or 9 of us and he got stuck trying to back out. 3 flux grenades and 4 blasts from the assault forge did him in while everyone else chucked locus grenades and shot him with their AR's. They did about much damage as calling your dad a motherfcker but they made it hard for the guys in the tank to find me before I could take it down. 30 minutes earlier I lost 7 forge fits to the same gunloggi because I'm stubborn as hell and I really, really hate tanks. Point is that to you* and your loss it seems unbalanced but trust me when I say in the long run forge gunners will lose just as much. We just lose it bit by bit. How many matches did you go without losing a tank? How many kills did you get before you got exploded? How much ISK did you make beforehand? Teamwork and driver stupidity kills tanks, not "OP" forge guns. I actually got to play and entire ambush 1 v 1 with a tank driver who's top 10 or 15 on the leaderboards and just I kept throwing AV suits under his treads because I wanted to see just what it was like to go toe to toe with a tank. I did everything I could think of, even tried one of those 300k ISK advanced fits the OP mentioned, and I never even got him to 50% shields before he would kill me. Seems pretty balanced to me.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.07 09:12:00 - [45] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: xMarauder wrote: on the order of 6 m/sec. Cutting tanks back to only moving at 6 m/s? No way. That's completely ridiculous and wrong. Why is it wrong? What I see now is that AV are extremely ineffective against tanks - it literaly takes a dumb tank driver to lose one. How can you make it more balanced? -Decrease damage of tank? - No. We saw that happen and now ppl dont want to play with tanks anymore -Decrease HP of a tank? - No. It would not be a tank then. - Increase DMG on FG? - No. Let's not even go there, most ppl would say. So, decreasing tank mobility is the only reasonalbe way. If it takes 2 dings from a FG to take out a tank, that's at least 15 consequtive seconds of FG charge cycling -- oh wait! you gotta reload it cuz it got only 4 rounds - make it 20-25sec. How far would a tank be in half a minute if it started taking dmg? That's right it would be long gone. That's why tanks are relatively risk free save inherent risks of idiot drivers, which grow out of it really fast too btw. I'm not saying that you can't consider a reasonable nerf to tank mobility. I'm saying that cutting them back to INFANTRY WALKING SPEED is a terrible idea. Dropping the current speed BY 6 m/s would be reasonable. Reducing them to only move at that speed is stupid.
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 318	Posted - 2012.12.07 09:20:00 - [46] - Quote Reducing the speed of HAV is probably one of the worst ideas i have heard so far concerning balancing, The forward speed/Turn speed of HAV is already bad and if anything it needs to made faster
10mg PLUMBUM Academy Inferno 73	Posted - 2012.12.07 09:43:00 - [47] - Quote Best enemy to the TANK - > other TANK, so nerf some points: armor, shield, tracking of the turrets, mobility or some others point will not decide your problem. The problem is that, pll want be a god! Every 1 sec ppl tell themself "how i can be a god?"))) TOP Forge guners or swarm launches can decide all problems))) but someone think "what i will do if its will not vehicle in the battle?" After this thoughts begins.....Tank is too faster, too much have armor or shield, too damage....they killed me every 3 min. TANK MUST BE TANK, but not a car with large turret! So TEAM PLAY is very good thing!!! whimperers!!!
Michael Cratar Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 179	Posted - 2012.12.07 11:53:00 - [48] - Quote I went 30-0 with a forge today. Took out 3 tanks. Two of them were tier 1 armor, between 3-4,000 armor with 2,000 shields. When missiles do it they are OP, but when forges do it they are fine.
10mg PLUMBUM Academy Inferno 73	Posted - 2012.12.07 12:30:00 - [49] - Quote Some times i real remeber first 2 patch in May and June, where was real tanks and ppls cant play forge guns. they didnt know about it. Nowadays some teams have 3-4 men which all battle looking for your Tank, only way sit in the tank on the base))))
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.07 17:51:00 - [50] - Quote Khal V'Rani wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Yeah. I don't see a kinetic slug three to four time the size of a .50 caliber round, traveling at 7000+ meters per second, only making it 50 meters. Applying realistic physics, It should have an effective range way beyond what the game already limits it too. I've tried that argument with map size and sniper rifles. Apparently no one cares if they believe there's some sort of injustice done to them and there personal sense of order and play style or strategy. Sniper rifles, per description, state 2500m/s. That means almost zero travel time at 200 meters, 400 meters, 1000 meters. People apparently can't read descriptions and reason things out. A basic militia sniper rifle says 2500m/s, The only argument I can think of is... is that number shown in the descriptions operational distance, planning distance, optimal distance, max distance? And it still really doesn't matter at this point as the map size is small enough to make travel time irrelevant at those speeds. Sorry, had to get it out of my system. well it would help if the crosshairs didnt have to center a little dot on the target that gets blurred out when people clump together, I suggested on another thread a normal cross hair like they have on normal sniper rifles, except it turns fully orange when you have a shot, if people cant hit within that range than people really do suck.

ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 108	Posted - 2012.12.07 21:34:00 - [51] - Quote No.
Kaizer Ishimoura Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2012.12.07 21:36:00 - [52] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: I've taken out a black ops HAV nearly single-handedly. I say nearly because I did the vast majority of the damage but I wasn't alone. He made a bad call and went in to a tight area and got surrounded by probably 8 or 9 of us and he got stuck trying to back out. 3 flux grenades and 4 blasts from the assault forge did him in while everyone else chucked locus grenades and shot him with their AR's. They did about much damage as calling your dad a motherfcker but they made it hard for the guys in the tank to find me before I could take it down. 30 minutes earlier I lost 7 forge fits to the same gunloggi because I'm stubborn as hell and I really, really hate tanks. Point is that to you* and your loss it seems unbalanced but trust me when I say in the long run forge gunners will lose just as much. We just lose it bit by bit. How many matches did you go without losing a tank? How many kills did you get before you got exploded? How much ISK did you make beforehand? Teamwork and driver stupidity kills tanks, not "OP" forge guns. I actually got to play and entire ambush 1 v 1 with a tank driver who's top 10 or 15 on the leaderboards and just I kept throwing AV suits under his treads because I wanted to see just what it was like to go toe to toe with a tank. I did everything I could think of, even tried one of those 300k ISK advanced fits the OP mentioned, and I never even got him to 50% shields before he would kill me. Seems pretty balanced to me. black ops HAV's dont exist, if they do someone stocked up on them. which dosent make any sense because the model is gone. Black ops HAVs are junk.


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