DUST Search - Did you really make it possible to play with mouse and gamepad in the same match...

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

OK, once again...

I've used BOTH control options on a fairly regular basis over many years, both in DUST and other FPS games (with experience going back as far as Wolfenstein 3D and Doom).

The single core advantage to KB/M control that COULD be "unbalanced" against the sixaxis controller on PS3 is one which HAS BEEN ELIMINATED IN DUST.

With almost all current-gen PC FPS games, and with the majority of mouse-controlled FPS games in the past (but, contrary to some claims, NOT all such games), using the mouse gives you greater precision when aiming AS WELL AS letting you spin to any facing near-instantly. If you're attacked from behind in, for example, Unreal Tournament, and you're using KB/M controls on PC, you can ALMOST INSTANTLY turn to face the target, and slow down your movement to precisely line up your shot. Conversely, the console player has to turn slowly over the course of a whole second, OR sacrifice most of the potential for precision aim in exchange for a higher turning rate.

Mouse control can give players the best of both worlds, while a gamepad requires a balance between the two extremes.

In the aforementioned Unreal Tournament, there was one game which shipped with PC/PS3 cross-compatibility. PC gamers dominated, because when a console player got the jump on a PC gamer from behind, all they got was the first shot, then the enemy was facing them. If the PC player got behind a console guy, he was dead before he could turn around. There was Shadowrun, a shooter/RPG hybrid, with cross-platform play between PC and XBox, and the same problems arose.

DUST doesn't have the same problem. Here, KB/M players HAVE THE SAME TURNING SPEED CAP AS SIXAXIS USERS. You can't out-turn someone just because you have the "pay to win" control option (which you can easily pick up for $10, by the way).

I've played DUST using both KB/M controls and the sixaxis, and I'm more comfortable with the sixaxis, and unlike EVERY OTHER SHOOTER I'VE PLAYED IN THE HISTORY OF MULTIPLATFORM GAMES, there isn't a distinct advantage to using the keyboard and mouse instead of the standard controller that comes with the console.

Both sides have about equal advantages and disadvantages in DUST. That isn't the same for any other game I've played, because I haven't played another game with a capped turning speed that wasn't PC exclusive with no gamepad support.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Joe Interfucker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.11.29 13:12:00 - [1] - Quote Cause if answer is positive I can tell you that other shooters like BF3 and COD have never supported PC and concole gamers clash cause gamepad sucks hard in comparison to mouse. I would not like to buy additional devices to play PS3 (!) game and also I have no idea how will I use it if I play the game on TV. But I have to cause other way DUST is imbalanced in every way it can be. You can tell me I`m a noob and so on. But I played Killzone and MAG on PS3 and I were not worst there. And here I even can say which player is with mouse and which is forced to suck hard in this game. Just take an advice. There are plenty devs which are more experienced in FPS than you are and they have never tried to do this bullshit in their games. Would you like please to cancel mouse support in this console game.
Vexen Krios Doomheim 95	Posted - 2012.11.30 13:35:00 - [2] - Quote Joe Interfucker wrote: Cause if answer is positive I can tell you that other shooters like BF3 and COD have never supported PC and concole gamers clash cause gamepad sucks hard in comparison to mouse. I would not like to buy additional devices to play PS3 (!) game and also I have no idea how will I use it if I play the game on TV. But I have to cause other way DUST is imbalanced in every way it can be. You can tell me I`m a noob and so on. But I played Killzone and MAG on PS3 and I were not worst there. And here I even can say which player is with mouse and which is forced to suck hard in this game. Just take an advice. There are plenty devs which are more experienced in FPS than you are and they have never tried to do this bullshit in their games. Would you like please to cancel mouse support in this console game. ....first off, i couldnt understand half of what you said there...and who is making you use a mouse? last i checked no one had a gun to my head making me use my controller, some players actually use a mouse and keyboard with this game and rock it pretty hardcore. personally i cant play computer games really because i suck with a mouse and keyboard....but you have the option to use either one...so im going to say troll...your all upset because you have the option to choose?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.30 15:37:00 - [3] - Quote Mouse control gives you the freedom to have both precision AND speed in turning - but unless they remove the hard cap on turning speed, doesn't give you an unfair advantage. A good player with a sixaxis controller can get the same precision as a casual mouse-user, and not far short of a good mouse-user. Also, using the analog stick for movement gives you FAR better precision and control than WASD on the keyboard. Control schemes are actually pretty well balanced. The only games with cross-platform play in the past have had no turning speed caps, so mouse users could pull a 180 and line up a headshot faster than the console player could make it halfway to facing the attacker. Without a hard cap on turning rate, there are SERIOUS balance issues, and other games have proven that solidly. DUST doesn't have that problem because no matter how awesome your mouse is, you can never turn faster than a guy with a sixaxis.
Quik Draw academy of riftyness 0	Posted - 2012.11.30 19:40:00 - [4] - Quote Why on earth have you posted this on the tech support/bugs forum!? This is not an error - this is a personal grievance.

GM Vegas Game Masters C C P Alliance 310	Posted - 2012.11.30 19:43:00 - [5] - Quote Moved to the appropriate section.

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 907	Posted - 2012.11.30 19:50:00 - [6] - Quote The fact that you can go from the Move to a DS3 to a mouse in the span of a minute is actually one of the things about this game that amazes me.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.11.30 19:54:00 - [7] - Quote i really don't feel like spending 40 dollars just to make a single game on my PS3 perform better. apparently you have to spend more if you want to optimise the game with a SSD. i understand the competitive edge but having tournaments and other obviously allowing a key demographic having an edge is kind of "unfair" "pay to win" is a definitely apart of the game. also the controls for LAV blow. i refuse to drive the things because the steering and acceleration is on the same stick. whoever thought of that should be punished.
Axierastos Satrap 4	Posted - 2012.11.30 20:39:00 - [8] - Quote Haven't been playing on consoles for a while and now as I took PS3 controler in my hands -- I got nostalgia and urge to try to learn to use it properly. Now when I play Assault I try to go with Sixaxis and when I go Sniper then KB+M is definately bettter choice. I guess to people who are HC console players Sixaxis is also a Sniper tool. I can only wish to be able to perform so good with it. Probably not possible (maybe only by forums poll), but it would be nice to see the ratio of Sixaxis vs KB+M vs Move.
Dezus 1000 Reaper Galactic 13	Posted - 2012.12.01 03:17:00 - [9] - Quote Joe Interfucker wrote: Cause if answer is positive I can tell you that other shooters like BF3 and COD have never supported PC and concole gamers clash cause gamepad sucks hard in comparison to mouse. I would not like to buy additional devices to play PS3 (!) game and also I have no idea how will I use it if I play the game on TV. But I have to cause other way DUST is imbalanced in every way it can be. You can tell me I`m a noob and so on. But I played Killzone and MAG on PS3 and I were not worst there. And here I even can say which player is with mouse and which is forced to suck hard in this game. Just take an advice. There are plenty devs which are more experienced in FPS than you are and they have never tried to do this bullshit in their games. Would you like please to cancel mouse support in this console game. This is a console game, if a mouse creates imbalances versus the normal controller it needs to be nixed out. And yes there are too many imbalances and this once can be fixed easily and immediately. CCP needs to stop catering to one super small niche, because I personally dont know a person that uses a mouse with a PS3 game.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.12.01 03:47:00 - [10] - Quote Dezus 1000 wrote: Joe Interfucker wrote: Cause if answer is positive I can tell you that other shooters like BF3 and COD have never supported PC and concole gamers clash cause gamepad sucks hard in comparison to mouse. I would not like to buy additional devices to play PS3 (!) game and also I have no idea how will I use it if I play the game on TV. But I have to cause other way DUST is imbalanced in every way it can be. You can tell me I`m a noob and so on. But I played Killzone and MAG on PS3 and I were not worst there. And here I even can say which player is with mouse and which is forced to suck hard in this game. Just take an advice. There are plenty devs which are more experienced in FPS than you are and they have never tried to do this bullshit in their games. Would you like please to cancel mouse support in this console game. This is a console game, if a mouse creates imbalances versus the normal controller it needs to be nixed out. And yes there are too many imbalances and this once can be fixed easily and immediately. CCP needs to stop catering to one super small niche, because I personally dont know a person that uses a mouse with a PS3 game. Mouse users are not a super-small niche. Most developers are too scared of feedback like this to attempt the system that CCP has, and I have full confidence that the three control schemes will be well balanced against each other. To put things in perspective, several of our best shooters, like Mr. Zitro, use the DS3. Regnum, with all his narcissistic posts, uses KBM. They both perform very well using two different control methods.

epicsting Doomheim 60	Posted - 2012.12.02 07:47:00 - [11] - Quote Do what I do use both a kebord in one hand a controler in the other. i like this way better than controler and mouse because I can aim fir swich wepon in one hand, that with the controler by the way, and do everything else in the other hand.
Ayekada Kernsky RestlessSpirits 6	Posted - 2012.12.02 12:42:00 - [12] - Quote i don't use the keyboard but i use mouse and the sixaxis the mouse is for sniping the sixaxis is for move and shoot as a logi
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.02 13:18:00 - [13] - Quote OK, once again... I've used BOTH control options on a fairly regular basis over many years, both in DUST and other FPS games (with experience going back as far as Wolfenstein 3D and Doom). The single core advantage to KB/M control that COULD be "unbalanced" against the sixaxis controller on PS3 is one which HAS BEEN ELIMINATED IN DUST. With almost all current-gen PC FPS games, and with the majority of mouse-controlled FPS games in the past (but, contrary to some claims, NOT all such games), using the mouse gives you greater precision when aiming AS WELL AS letting you spin to any facing near-instantly. If you're attacked from behind in, for example, Unreal Tournament, and you're using KB/M controls on PC, you can ALMOST INSTANTLY turn to face the target, and slow down your movement to precisely line up your shot. Conversely, the console player has to turn slowly over the course of a whole second, OR sacrifice most of the potential for precision aim in exchange for a higher turning rate. Mouse control can give players the best of both worlds, while a gamepad requires a balance between the two extremes. In the aforementioned Unreal Tournament, there was one game which shipped with PC/PS3 cross-compatibility. PC gamers dominated, because when a console player got the jump on a PC gamer from behind, all they got was the first shot, then the enemy was facing them. If the PC player got behind a console guy, he was dead before he could turn around. There was Shadowrun, a shooter/RPG hybrid, with cross-platform play between PC and XBox, and the same problems arose. DUST doesn't have the same problem. Here, KB/M players HAVE THE SAME TURNING SPEED CAP AS SIXAXIS USERS. You can't out-turn someone just because you have the "pay to win" control option (which you can easily pick up for $10, by the way). I've played DUST using both KB/M controls and the sixaxis, and I'm more comfortable with the sixaxis, and unlike EVERY OTHER SHOOTER I'VE PLAYED IN THE HISTORY OF MULTIPLATFORM GAMES, there isn't a distinct advantage to using the keyboard and mouse instead of the standard controller that comes with the console. Both sides have about equal advantages and disadvantages in DUST. That isn't the same for any other game I've played, because I haven't played another game with a capped turning speed that wasn't PC exclusive with no gamepad support.
Stinker Butt Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2012.12.02 13:30:00 - [14] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: OK, once again... I've used BOTH control options on a fairly regular basis over many years, both in DUST and other FPS games (with experience going back as far as Wolfenstein 3D and Doom). The single core advantage to KB/M control that COULD be "unbalanced" against the sixaxis controller on PS3 is one which HAS BEEN ELIMINATED IN DUST. With almost all current-gen PC FPS games, and with the majority of mouse-controlled FPS games in the past (but, contrary to some claims, NOT all such games), using the mouse gives you greater precision when aiming AS WELL AS letting you spin to any facing near-instantly. If you're attacked from behind in, for example, Unreal Tournament, and you're using KB/M controls on PC, you can ALMOST INSTANTLY turn to face the target, and slow down your movement to precisely line up your shot. Conversely, the console player has to turn slowly over the course of a whole second, OR sacrifice most of the potential for precision aim in exchange for a higher turning rate. Mouse control can give players the best of both worlds, while a gamepad requires a balance between the two extremes. In the aforementioned Unreal Tournament, there was one game which shipped with PC/PS3 cross-compatibility. PC gamers dominated, because when a console player got the jump on a PC gamer from behind, all they got was the first shot, then the enemy was facing them. If the PC player got behind a console guy, he was dead before he could turn around. There was Shadowrun, a shooter/RPG hybrid, with cross-platform play between PC and XBox, and the same problems arose. DUST doesn't have the same problem. Here, KB/M players HAVE THE SAME TURNING SPEED CAP AS SIXAXIS USERS. You can't out-turn someone just because you have the "pay to win" control option (which you can easily pick up for $10, by the way). I've played DUST using both KB/M controls and the sixaxis, and I'm more comfortable with the sixaxis, and unlike EVERY OTHER SHOOTER I'VE PLAYED IN THE HISTORY OF MULTIPLATFORM GAMES, there isn't a distinct advantage to using the keyboard and mouse instead of the standard controller that comes with the console. Both sides have about equal advantages and disadvantages in DUST. That isn't the same for any other game I've played, because I haven't played another game with a capped turning speed that wasn't PC exclusive with no gamepad support. On this current build you can turn extremely fast using a mouse, even if you're a heavy. This is a dramatic change from the last build and should be fixed for balance. Move is still very buggy right now. I use it almost exclusively, but I know the limits.
Grodgen TeIpsum Cult of Escobar 3	Posted - 2012.12.02 14:37:00 - [15] - Quote Lol Keyboard and Mouse need "balance". "On this current build you can turn extremely fast using a mouse, even if you're a heavy. This is a dramatic change from the last build and should be fixed for balance. " Yea to the point where it was unplayable, it took me 2 hours to get the perfect sensitivity for the bloody mouse. PS3 has ALWAYS had a keyboard and mouse option, it was developed with it in mind. If you have an issue with people using what was there to begin with, take it up with Sony and leave CCP alone about it. This arguement is just as stupid as "People with controllers on PC should be limited". Get real....
Grodgen TeIpsum Cult of Escobar 3	Posted - 2012.12.02 14:41:00 - [16] - Quote "DUST doesn't have the same problem. Here, KB/M players HAVE THE SAME TURNING SPEED CAP AS SIXAXIS USERS. You can't out-turn someone just because you have the "pay to win" control option (which you can easily pick up for $10, by the way)." My keyboard and mouse was $20 PS3 controllers are $84.99 People just like to whine when they are schooled by people that have been playing FPS since 1994
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.02 15:06:00 - [17] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: On this current build you can turn extremely fast using a mouse, even if you're a heavy. This is a dramatic change from the last build and should be fixed for balance. Move is still very buggy right now. I use it almost exclusively, but I know the limits. On this current build you can turn no faster using a mouse than you can using the sixaxis controller. On this current build, you can turn no faster using a Scout and you can using a heavy. One of these is no change from the last build, and the other is a huge change from every previous build. Spoiler: The change wasn't with the relative turning speeds of the different control schemes.
Stile451 Red Star. 76	Posted - 2012.12.02 18:14:00 - [18] - Quote As someone who has actually used both control schemes as well as hybrids(DS3 for movement, mouse for aim) the mouse gives no advantage over the DS3(in fact the mouse skips around when trying to make minor adjustments although this may have changed over the last few weeks as I've been using DS3 exclusively due to personal preference).
Dezus 1000 Reaper Galactic 13	Posted - 2012.12.02 19:03:00 - [19] - Quote All I was saying is that if the kb/m in anyway whatsoever creates an unfair advantage it needs to be taken out. This is not a PC game.
Sytonis Auran Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.12.02 21:18:00 - [20] - Quote Dezus 1000 wrote: All I was saying is that if the kb/m in anyway whatsoever creates an unfair advantage it needs to be taken out. This is not a PC game. Did you read the above posts? They have done a good job of describing how CCP has mitigated the advantages of keyboard and mouse. I'm sure they would appreciate feedback on specifics though.



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