DUST Search - INB4FORGENERF

EnglishSnake wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Sir Meode wrote:

I think you miss the point. Its a HAV it should take more than one person to bring it down and currently thats not how its working

My 200,000 ISK Sica only dies to a lone Forge Gunner if I screw up. It usually takes 2 - 3 infantry or a better HAV than my own to kill it. A couple of good 2-man LAV teams (driver + gunner) can sometimes do the trick, but usually not. 2 Proto Forge Guns will kill me pretty fast, but if I see either of them while charging, they'll probably die first.

Milita tanks i see are generally are solo'd half the time, someone dropped one in an ambush with a railgun and i hopped about with a milita SL spamming it and throwing AV nades and it popped

You can solo a gunlogi tbh, a sagaris rarely because the driver knows its expensive and they dont want to lose it so they take extra care over it tbh

Even then tho top tanks cannot take too much punishment tbh espc not with the the overall price tag

My current Sagaris costs 2.3mil, for its price tag is a risky investment its why you see me sat up on that hill, maybe if it was like under 1mil i may bring it down but its easier to use a gunlogi for that

Either way the price tag for a fully fit top tier tank is way way overpriced for what it can actually do


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.27 11:46:00 - [1] - Quote I'd rather see a re-buff to Missiles than a nerf on the Forge. And I think the Large Missile Turret got hit way harder beyond reason than the Small Turrets have been.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.27 12:15:00 - [2] - Quote Forge Gun doesn't have nearly the level of pinpoint precision that a Railgun has. I've tried both. I can snipe about as effectively with a Large Railgun as I can with an actual Sniper Rifle. Forge Gun? Good luck on that. You need a nice big target to have any real chance of hitting at mid-range, let along long range. When I get killed by a Forge Gun as infantry, I'm impressed by the shooter. Or I'm annoyed that I made myself an easy target.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.27 14:58:00 - [3] - Quote Sir Meode wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: LOL, so you're basically saying you agree with me. THANK YOU. You just said a forge gunner isn't OP. I AGREE. ahh no. What im basically saying is Forge Guns are OP, they should have ZERO splash damage and a shorter range then they would be balanced. Keep the direct damage as it is thats fine What you said right before he said this is that vehicles are a good counter to snipers (particularly true in the case of HAVs), while conceding that snipers are a good counter to Forge Guns, which in turn confirms that they're easily countered by one of the most prevalent weapon types on the battlefield, thus making them definitely NOT OP. You may not be OPENLY admitting to that concession, but you still made it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.27 16:27:00 - [4] - Quote Sir Meode wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Sir Meode wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: LOL, so you're basically saying you agree with me. THANK YOU. You just said a forge gunner isn't OP. I AGREE. ahh no. What im basically saying is Forge Guns are OP, they should have ZERO splash damage and a shorter range then they would be balanced. Keep the direct damage as it is thats fine What you said right before he said this is that vehicles are a good counter to snipers (particularly true in the case of HAVs), while conceding that snipers are a good counter to Forge Guns, which in turn confirms that they're easily countered by one of the most prevalent weapon types on the battlefield, thus making them definitely NOT OP. You may not be OPENLY admitting to that concession, but you still made it. ahh no. your wrong. A forge gunner can do the same back to a sniper, he doesn't even have to hit the sniper to OHK him. forge gunner can kill EVERYTHING in a game if that's not OP I don't know what is. All I see in this thread are Forge users crying "please don't Nerf my god mode" HTFU No, I'm not wrong (or should that be "my not wrong" to fit with your atrocious grammar?). YOU indirectly conceded the point that snipers can counter Forge Guns. In responding to another player's comment about Snipers using sensible tactics to kill Forge Gunners, you suggested having a vehicle to help the Forge Gunner out, which implies that snipers are effective against Forge Guns. I'm correct in pointing out that your comment in that situation was an admission of that point, whether you're willing to directly admit to it or not. And any sniper who's picked a fight with a Forge Gunner and doesn't kill the target in the time it takes to find the sniper, line up a shot, charge the Forge Gun and fire, and hasn't taken cover before the shot is fired, deserves exactly the result they get. I'm a bad sniper, and only use the Militia Sniper Rifle, and I can kill most Forge Gunners in less time than they take to charge. The only exception is an Assault Forge Gun, which I can usually kill before they see me, and they can't afford to start charging until they've spotted me, so that extra time balances out the speed with which they can charge the shot. If you're a COMPETENT sniper, the same results should be no trouble at all. In mid-range combat, ARs can usually kill Forge Gunners before they can get a shot off. At close range, SMGs and Shotguns can do the same. Mass Drivers are great for hitting Forge Gunners form behind cover. And unless you're up against a Scout with no tank (stealth or speed build), you probably CAN'T one-shot them without a direct hit. I know my shield-tanked Dragonfly can survive a near miss from a Forge Gun. I've done it more than once when caught off-guard, and won the fight because they didn't get a second shot.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.02 12:36:00 - [5] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Forge gunner hiding behind a hill and i can see him so i aim with my railgun get that red marker popping up and i fire, but wait i didnt kill him and he still managed to fire off a shot and hit me what happened? oh yes its in invisable wall that he behind and i will never be able to hit him but he can hit me fine You're right. Glitchy terrain is totally a problem with the Forge Gun. Assign blame where it belongs. Those same terrain glitches can make some hilltop/hillside snipers immune to counter-sniper, Blaster, or even Missile Turret fire in certain situations. They can also result in a hill-cimbing idiot getting stuck in a falling animation then spontaneously dying for no legitimate reason while trying to jump over a rock. Does that mean snipers are OP? Does it mean rocks are OP? No. It means that terrain is glitchy and needs work.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.02 14:42:00 - [6] - Quote Sir Meode wrote: Base damage of the cheapest Forge gun is 1200 and splash is 210, Splash damage on a militia fit troop is OHK. Militia Assault. 0 SP investment into ANYTHING that increases survivability. 0 HP bonuses from ANY modules that increase HP. 125 Shield. 175 Armour. 300HP total. 300 > 210. You can easily fit a Militia Scout with a single Militia Armour Plate mod, or a single Militia Shield Extender, and it will be able to take more than 210 damage. Every step into mechanics gives you increased armour. At level 2, a Scout can survive a 210 damage hit without any HP increasing mods. Also, splash diminishes as range from the centre of the blast increases. If you're pressed up against the wall and the Forge hit explodes RIGHT next to you, it's theoretically possible to take 210 damage, but you're unlikely to take more than 150 unless you almost took a direct hit which would one-shot you even in a Heavy.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.02 15:12:00 - [7] - Quote Sir Meode wrote: I think you miss the point. Its a HAV it should take more than one person to bring it down and currently thats not how its working My 200,000 ISK Sica only dies to a lone Forge Gunner if I screw up. It usually takes 2 - 3 infantry or a better HAV than my own to kill it. A couple of good 2-man LAV teams (driver + gunner) can sometimes do the trick, but usually not. 2 Proto Forge Guns will kill me pretty fast, but if I see either of them while charging, they'll probably die first.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.02 16:00:00 - [8] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Sir Meode wrote: I think you miss the point. Its a HAV it should take more than one person to bring it down and currently thats not how its working My 200,000 ISK Sica only dies to a lone Forge Gunner if I screw up. It usually takes 2 - 3 infantry or a better HAV than my own to kill it. A couple of good 2-man LAV teams (driver + gunner) can sometimes do the trick, but usually not. 2 Proto Forge Guns will kill me pretty fast, but if I see either of them while charging, they'll probably die first. Milita tanks i see are generally are solo'd half the time, someone dropped one in an ambush with a railgun and i hopped about with a milita SL spamming it and throwing AV nades and it popped You can solo a gunlogi tbh, a sagaris rarely because the driver knows its expensive and they dont want to lose it so they take extra care over it tbh Even then tho top tanks cannot take too much punishment tbh espc not with the the overall price tag My current Sagaris costs 2.3mil, for its price tag is a risky investment its why you see me sat up on that hill, maybe if it was like under 1mil i may bring it down but its easier to use a gunlogi for that Either way the price tag for a fully fit top tier tank is way way overpriced for what it can actually do A good player with a well-fitted Militia tank can move in and kill most AV guys before they can kill him. A Large Railgun Turret is effectively the HAV's equivalent of a Sniper Rifle. It's powerful, has long range, but becomes MUCH less effective in close quarters or against erratically-moving small targets. If you can hit an enemy Dropsuit, they die, but if you can't, you have to prevent them from hitting you, or switch to one of your Small Turrets - especially if you have Missile or Blaster options. I think HAV durability is actually about where it should be, but the weapons have been over-nerfed. Blasters were always underpowered, and need a buff. Railguns should turn slowly, but not AS slow as they currently move. Missiles got slaughtered, although the past couple of days they seem less screwed than they were, so maybe they're doing ok now.