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GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2012.11.21 06:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why gimp something that does what of is suppose to do? Reducing damaging, range and rate of fire should be enough. Limiting the AoE is taking away from there purpose. In any MMO that you play AoE hits a wide area for low damage, it is also a form of crowed control
Sorry for any miss spelling and so on using a iPhone and dust forums on he iPhone isn't user friendly. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.11.21 06:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:Why gimp something that does what of is suppose to do? Reducing damaging, range and rate of fire should be enough. Limiting the AoE is taking away from there purpose. In any MMO that you play AoE hits a wide area for low damage, it is also a form of crowed control
Sorry for any miss spelling and so on using a iPhone and dust forums on he iPhone isn't user friendly.
so u agree damage should be nerfed then
"Reload" function needs to be added to bring it in line with other turrets
1.5-2.0 secs delay/"reload" between shots rails have a 2.0-2.5 sec shot interval
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GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2012.11.21 06:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:GIZMO2606 wrote:Why gimp something that does what of is suppose to do? Reducing damaging, range and rate of fire should be enough. Limiting the AoE is taking away from there purpose. In any MMO that you play AoE hits a wide area for low damage, it is also a form of crowed control
Sorry for any miss spelling and so on using a iPhone and dust forums on he iPhone isn't user friendly. so u agree damage should be nerfed then "Reload" function needs to be added to bring it in line with other turrets 1.5-2.0 secs delay/"reload" between shots rails have a 2.0-2.5 sec shot interval I play a lot of MMOs and any MMO AoE type damage is meant to be weak but have a massive hit range. Dumb nerfs like this is what is gonna cause dust to flop. CCP it is nice that you're listening to players but learn to slow down. Learn from other MMO games and stop listening to scrubs. |
Mobius Kaethis
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
306
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Posted - 2012.11.21 06:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
A better solution is to make all missiles slow moving ballistic projectiles. This would make it much more difficult to hit ranged targets with them and would act as an effective maximum range. Skiliing into a missile turret speed skill would increase the missiles travel speed and thus their range (it would also reduce their arc). No damage or AoE nerf needed. |
GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2012.11.21 06:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:A better solution is to make all missiles slow moving ballistic projectiles. This would make it much more difficult to hit ranged targets with them and would act as an effective maximum range. Skiliing into a missile turret speed skill would increase the missiles travel speed and thus their range (it would also reduce their arc). No damage or AoE nerf needed.
Damage does needa nerf and damage mods also need to be fixed since you can add as many as you want without them having any backlash. AoE needs to stay the same though with reduced range and rate of fire. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.11.21 10:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:A better solution is to make all missiles slow moving ballistic projectiles. This would make it much more difficult to hit ranged targets with them and would act as an effective maximum range. Skiliing into a missile turret speed skill would increase the missiles travel speed and thus their range (it would also reduce their arc). No damage or AoE nerf needed. Damage does needa nerf and damage mods also need to be fixed since you can add as many as you want without them having any backlash. AoE needs to stay the same though with reduced range and rate of fire.
well this is a temp fix im sure since i know they are looking into that "reload" delay i mentioned |
Villore Isu
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
115
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Posted - 2012.11.21 10:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Missiles were OP as feck, deal with it. Also, no numbers were given, so you don't know how much the AoE was actually reduced by. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.21 10:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree a nerf is in order, but I think they may be overdoing it for the ISK party. |
GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2012.11.21 13:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Called it, Gratz CCP, over nerfed them when all that was needed was range, rate of fire, and damage. There is no splash now what so ever. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
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Posted - 2012.11.21 14:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hmm. I thought a 2.6m blast radius WAS AOE. Looks like you will need to find a new flavor of the month. |
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GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2012.11.21 14:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:Hmm. I thought a 2.6m blast radius WAS AOE. Looks like you will need to find a new flavor of the month. Lol I'm AV. I have a railgun tank. You seems to not understand. Now missiles are worthless along with scout suits and breach AR. The point of this thread, CCP doesn't know how to nerf something unless they make it worthless. On a side note thanks for making tanks and dropships worthless and easier for me to farm by removing the splash damage CCP. Cater to the scrubs more and make the game easier. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.11.21 15:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Hmm. I thought a 2.6m blast radius WAS AOE. Looks like you will need to find a new flavor of the month. Lol I'm AV. I have a railgun tank. You seems to not understand. Now missiles are worthless along with scout suits and breach AR. The point of this thread, CCP doesn't know how to nerf something unless they make it worthless. On a side note thanks for making tanks and dropships worthless and easier for me to farm by removing the splash damage CCP. Cater to the scrubs more and make the game easier.
gizmo reading over the changes i disagree u actually seem to get more AoE than reduced. hear me out
missiles shot pretty straight before with large splash and damage with adding "dispersion" aka spread ur missiles wont actually be that straight anymore but more spread out so u actually are gaining more AoE. they would have to reduce the splash damage a bit since the missiles are now shooting over a wider area because now u run the risk of splash damage from each missile overlapping thus making a wider killzone since before missiles all were somewhat straight the overall splash zone would not be large
that said if u think nerfing missiles is catering to scrubs idk wtf game ur playing considering the only thing u see are missiles which take no skill to aim unlike blasters or rails and would OHK anything with splash alone....... |
Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
907
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Posted - 2012.11.21 15:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Personally, I wouldn't have minding them just changing the damage and range of missiles and leaving the blast radius alone. |
GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2012.11.21 15:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:GIZMO2606 wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Hmm. I thought a 2.6m blast radius WAS AOE. Looks like you will need to find a new flavor of the month. Lol I'm AV. I have a railgun tank. You seems to not understand. Now missiles are worthless along with scout suits and breach AR. The point of this thread, CCP doesn't know how to nerf something unless they make it worthless. On a side note thanks for making tanks and dropships worthless and easier for me to farm by removing the splash damage CCP. Cater to the scrubs more and make the game easier. gizmo reading over the changes i disagree u actually seem to get more AoE than reduced. hear me out missiles shot pretty straight before with large splash and damage with adding "dispersion" aka spread ur missiles wont actually be that straight anymore but more spread out so u actually are gaining more AoE. they would have to reduce the splash damage a bit since the missiles are now shooting over a wider area because now u run the risk of splash damage from each missile overlapping thus making a wider killzone since before missiles all were somewhat straight the overall splash zone would not be large that said if u think nerfing missiles is catering to scrubs idk wtf game ur playing considering the only thing u see are missiles which take no skill to aim unlike blasters or rails and would OHK anything with splash alone....... Had my breach forge out and was facing Ted this morning. The range his splash damage was hitig was less than normal. Secondly got off 2 breach volleys before I lost half my armor since the splash is now littler.
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:GIZMO2606 wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Hmm. I thought a 2.6m blast radius WAS AOE. Looks like you will need to find a new flavor of the month. Lol I'm AV. I have a railgun tank. You seems to not understand. Now missiles are worthless along with scout suits and breach AR. The point of this thread, CCP doesn't know how to nerf something unless they make it worthless. On a side note thanks for making tanks and dropships worthless and easier for me to farm by removing the splash damage CCP. Cater to the scrubs more and make the game easier. gizmo reading over the changes i disagree u actually seem to get more AoE than reduced. hear me out missiles shot pretty straight before with large splash and damage with adding "dispersion" aka spread ur missiles wont actually be that straight anymore but more spread out so u actually are gaining more AoE. they would have to reduce the splash damage a bit since the missiles are now shooting over a wider area because now u run the risk of splash damage from each missile overlapping thus making a wider killzone since before missiles all were somewhat straight the overall splash zone would not be large that said if u think nerfing missiles is catering to scrubs idk wtf game ur playing considering the only thing u see are missiles which take no skill to aim unlike blasters or rails and would OHK anything with splash alone....... Had my breach forge out and was facing Ted this morning. The range his splash damage was hitig was less than normal. Secondly got off 2 breach volleys before I lost half my armor since the splash is now littler.
ya obv if hes trying to hit 1 target the area of effect wont be much unless he lands a direct hit which from the looks of things he didnt
from ccps notes missiles spread more which actually gives u better crowd control over a wider area, splash shouldnt be the primary way any weapon gets kills thats cheap an thats what made missiles the scrub turret
seems like missiles are now a situational turret like the others Blasters are more effective at dealing damage to a single target at close range, rails at long range and missiles more effective at damaging over a wider area which seems fine cuz if missiles still had the stoppin power they did + the dispersion that was added it would of made them more OP and not fixed the problem
Missiles as u said should be an AoE crowd control and thats what it is doing. Suppressing a wide area Stats show u lost 2.8M on each missile depending on the dispersion thats not bad , if they kept the splash radius at 6.8 which it was before and added dispersion u can see based on the stats how OP that damage would of become...splash had to be reduced
And dispersion had to be added to prevent long range cross map/redzone bs
Ill get on later and see 1st hand how it is but so far not seeing the big problem considering splash was the main killer of ppl from missiles.
PS: maybe now the good tankers will shine and not the ppl who just got a gunnlogi/sargaris an slapped some missiles onto it and charged head 1st into objectives and wtf pwned everything before anyone could shoot back would stop now. Now ppl will actually once again have to use some brainwork when tankin
just like with the AV buff last build and resist nerf alot of scrub tankers vanished....wonder how many more will disappear |
GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
The so called spread isn't there, I tried using a fragmented missile this more after the update. 16 shots later no damage. The enemy player was no more that 10 meters from me too. Finally just jumped out and forge him. Also my railgun tank has more spread than a missile it seems. CCP, as an av player, I can tell you that you just didn't hurt those using missiles, you hurt av players. Already now, I have 3 tanks since the update went live and 1 Drepship. Us that play full depend on those vehicle players so we can make bank on them. Now with no one playing vehicle to what little good are we? |
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
192
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
I haven't tested the changes yet, but from what I'm reading it's the usual "Cheap" fix to stop the scrubs whining about broken things. They did the same with Scouts and Tanks, so we shouldn't expect anything less from CCP's changes. CCP aren't even trying to balance the game if you ask me, they're trying to keep people testing by pretty much removing what people cry about.
I'm not excusing the laziness mind. I'm just hoping that this is what I describe so they can add more things instead of trying to balance. The game shouldn't even try to be balanced yet if you ask me, we're still missing about 70% of the content in game and yet people constantly cry that something is OP daily.
I'm curious as to what they'll whine about now missiles are "fixed" tbh, but I'm sure they'll think of something. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
AOE not anymore
A locus grenade does 400 DPS in a 6m splash, missile does less than 100 in 3m
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Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
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Posted - 2012.11.21 20:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:Why gimp something that does what of is suppose to do? Reducing damaging, range and rate of fire should be enough. Limiting the AoE is taking away from there purpose. In any MMO that you play AoE hits a wide area for low damage, it is also a form of crowed control
Sorry for any miss spelling and so on using a iPhone and dust forums on he iPhone isn't user friendly. because AoE is too awesome. that is the reason there isn't a rocket launcher for dropsuits. they want people to use every gun. not just 1. a reason for missile tank nerf is because tanks are the only good thing to skill into everything else seems like a waste of skill points. they nerfed every AoE option in the game. explosives are now fewer, grenades were beaten to hell. forge guns, swarms, and rail guns were all nerfed. it seems like they don't want AoE in the game. the idea of "skill free kills" might ruin the game and they are partially right. running against 36/0 dropship pilots. 50+ tank pilots. it really gets people pissed off when they skilled something they wanted to do when one is clearly the best option. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.21 21:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
EVERYTHING about the Missile Turret change is great... EXCEPT the splash damage reduction.
If I'm about 20m from a Swarm Launcher guy who's just standing there lining up his shots, it's reasonable to expect that I'll be able to line up on him and fire several volleys - sometimes as many as TWENTY missiles - from my Large Missile Turret and hit nothing but dirt. Aiming for a STATIONARY TARGET. Not a single hit. IF he's in cover, I can sometimes get splash off the cover to hit him, but infantry standing out in the open are now practically immune to a Missile Tank's main gun.
Even if they only bumped it back up to 4m instead of 5. Or only buffed the large turret - I haven't had problems with the Small Missile Turrets when I've been using them. They're actually EASIER to get kills with in those situations.
Necrodermis wrote:GIZMO2606 wrote:Why gimp something that does what of is suppose to do? Reducing damaging, range and rate of fire should be enough. Limiting the AoE is taking away from there purpose. In any MMO that you play AoE hits a wide area for low damage, it is also a form of crowed control
Sorry for any miss spelling and so on using a iPhone and dust forums on he iPhone isn't user friendly. because AoE is too awesome. that is the reason there isn't a rocket launcher for dropsuits. they want people to use every gun. not just 1. a reason for missile tank nerf is because tanks are the only good thing to skill into everything else seems like a waste of skill points. they nerfed every AoE option in the game. explosives are now fewer, grenades were beaten to hell. forge guns, swarms, and rail guns were all nerfed. it seems like they don't want AoE in the game. the idea of "skill free kills" might ruin the game and they are partially right. running against 36/0 dropship pilots. 50+ tank pilots. it really gets people pissed off when they skilled something they wanted to do when one is clearly the best option. And this would be a great answer if it weren't for the fact that the core problem was the RANGE, not the splash radius, and they nerfed the range, the splash radius, AND both direct and splash damage. I'm HAPPY about the range nerf. I don't even mind the damage nerf, because with their vs. armour modifier, they're still pretty good. But nerfing splash radius AS WELL as everything else was taking it too far. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.11.21 21:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Personally, I wouldn't have minding them just changing the damage and range of missiles and leaving the blast radius alone. This makes more sense to me. |
GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Saddly, this makes me question the Dev's ideas for th game. An easy way to test out nerfs and buffs would have been to just apply a little nerf or buff at a time till it feels about right. That away it is not overly buffed or overly nerfed. CCP hat to say but your skill of trying to balance out anything is very poor. Take things slow and add little changes not big changes like this. Look what has happened in the last major changes, the breach at is worthless and no one never uses it now. Scout suit is almost as worthless and not worth using. Now missiles are worthless. |
h3lenK3ller
Doomheim
13
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
IMO I think they only should have nerf the small missile turrets, and not the large. Id be the first to say, there is nothing like driving around in a saga with pretty decent shields, one or two shotin' people. But that is way OP. and hey a dropship is now a "dropship". |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
h3lenK3ller wrote:IMO I think they only should have nerf the small missile turrets, and not the large. Id be the first to say, there is nothing like driving around in a saga with pretty decent shields, one or two shotin' people. But that is way OP. and hey a dropship is now a "dropship".
Large Missiles needed a nerf to bring it in line with the other turrets it was better in EVERY way at dealing with every situation than the other turrets with no drawbacks
after playing alot yesterday id say the large nerf was too much BUT both the community AND CCP need to figure out wtf large missiles roles are
Ppl keep sayin AoE but then they always want the missiles to fire dead straight how is that gonna work out?
keeping the splash nerf and having it fire straight makes it a precision turret and not an AoE one, puttin back splash and have it firing straight puts it right back at square 1.
imo u cant have it both ways, its either AoE or Precision Missiles will always be the scrub turret for me anyway just for the way ppl want it and the ease of use compared to other turrets
Ive already suggested to CCP to add a "reload" delay to them to bring them in line with other turrets along with a damage and range nerf. Imo that would of been fine but u cant get that in a hotfix so we prob wont see that till build after this upcoming one.
Splash def needed to go down as well, splash damage should NEVER be the main reason ppl picking up kills that just screams scrub mechanics rewarding ppl who cant aim with kills. |
Velvet Overkill
Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS.
104
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Posted - 2012.11.24 14:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Using rockets now makes me feel like I'm using a railgun with terrible lag. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion
302
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Posted - 2012.11.24 14:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:Saddly, this makes me question the Dev's ideas for th game. An easy way to test out nerfs and buffs would have been to just apply a little nerf or buff at a time till it feels about right. That away it is not overly buffed or overly nerfed. CCP hat to say but your skill of trying to balance out anything is very poor. Take things slow and add little changes not big changes like this. Look what has happened in the last major changes, the breach at is worthless and no one never uses it now. Scout suit is almost as worthless and not worth using. Now missiles are worthless.
Actually the 'heavy handeed' approach means that they put one problem aside, and allow others to come to the fore. Their solution (guaranteed they'll have one) will likely come in the next Build and they take time to push out as a client update through Sony.
So they work like this...
Missiles are Overpowerted... ok, hit them hard, make them a non-issue. The community moves onto next exploit / Over powered item, that's deemed OP, they gather data, nerf hammer hits hard.
By the time the next build comes around, they'll reinstate what's needed, rebalance, and have a shiny new approach to the item.
This has happened build after build after build. Why don't you look at CCPs history and see this is how they work, and prevents them from constantly hot fixing over and over and over again, taking development time away from the rest of the game. |
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