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Overlord Zero Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.11.20 01:02:00 - [1] - Quote To the tank pilots who use the "but my tank costs more than your forge" rebuttal. Av 'nades cost almost nothing. My Saga costs around 300,000. 4 av grenades will kill my Saga. All it takes is a jerk with a nanohive or two people who see me nearby. At least forge guns can only be carried by slow, bulky heavy suits. My LAV can be taken out by any suit on the field, INCLUDING the ones hunting your ass down, and I NEVER know who has the AV 'nades until they throw them. Quit complaining and realize that a forge gun was MEANT to do what it does to your tank. And if you think it's easy to track you down to kill your tank, you are out of your mind. Once in a while a forge gunner will find himself in a good spot to shoot at you, but most of the time he's dodging bullets and missiles and LAV's, not counting whatever you are shooting at him, trying to get a clear line of sight on you, and once he starts charging up a shot, every red dot in the area hears it and sees that glowing blue light. When a forge gunner can get one shot off without being shot at, he's having a good day. Forge guns VS tanks are working as intended, minus some hit detection, aiming, splash damage and range issues. Just be glad those aren't fixed yet.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.11.20 01:04:00 - [2] - Quote I soloed a Gunnlogi with AV nades and a nano hive Wasn't the most intelligent operator.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.11.20 01:13:00 - [3] - Quote LAV's are definitely skill based. A good LAV driver can tear up the battlefield. My Saga costs me 365 K, and I've taken out a couple of tanks with it. My only deaths are multiple swarms/forge hits, or tanks.
Sev Alcatraz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 185	Posted - 2012.11.20 02:01:00 - [4] - Quote as a skilled tank driver i will say this, forge guns are semi balanced other then the 3 hit kill through 7000 shields and the 4 hit kill through 10000 armour. in my personal opinion they need a slight Nerf, very slight just enough to give the tank a fighting chance against the forge gunner 3 miles away on the side of the hill >_>
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 411	Posted - 2012.11.20 02:14:00 - [5] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: as a skilled tank driver i will say this, forge guns are semi balanced other then the 3 hit kill through 7000 shields and the 4 hit kill through 10000 armour. in my personal opinion they need a slight Nerf, very slight just enough to give the tank a fighting chance against the forge gunner 3 miles away on the side of the hill >_> Seven shots ought to be enough time for you to move behind something. Hell, unless you're in the thick of it, three shots should be plenty of time to get behind something.
Mobius Kaethis Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 306	Posted - 2012.11.20 02:17:00 - [6] - Quote Wait, are you seriously saying that a tank does not have a chance against a heavy with a forge gun? Even you have just said it takes 3-4 forge hits (and those are probably proto because I can't 3 hit kill a tank with my standard forge) to take your tank down. Do you really want us to believe that you can't kill a forge gunner, even one who is sitting all the way across the map, with a single missile barrage? Come on now, there is no way a forge is OP.
4447 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 649	Posted - 2012.11.20 02:47:00 - [7] - Quote Good post
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.11.20 03:52:00 - [8] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: as a skilled tank driver i will say this, forge guns are semi balanced other then the 3 hit kill through 7000 shields and the 4 hit kill through 10000 armour. in my personal opinion they need a slight Nerf, very slight just enough to give the tank a fighting chance against the forge gunner 3 miles away on the side of the hill >_> LMAO. Right. Cuz it's not fair that you don't get to keep your cheap half a mil ISK tank through 10 straight 30/0 games right? We need to nerf FG cuz obviously those OP things just totally control the game now and make it impossible to field a tank. On a related note, we should nerf infantry speed too - cuz, wtf ,those things sometimes manage to run outside the nuke radius of a tank missile. Makes it totally impossible to go through at 50/0 game these days with a tank that I HAD TO PAY SO MUCH ISK FOR!! It is just not balanced!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.20 03:54:00 - [9] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: as a skilled tank driver i will say this, forge guns are semi balanced other then the 3 hit kill through 7000 shields and the 4 hit kill through 10000 armour. in my personal opinion they need a slight Nerf, very slight just enough to give the tank a fighting chance against the forge gunner 3 miles away on the side of the hill >_> LMAO. Right. Cuz it's not fair that you don't get to keep your cheap half a mil ISK tank through 10 straight 30/0 games right? We need to nerf FG cuz obviously those OP things just totally control the game now and make it impossible to field a tank. On a related note, we should nerf infantry speed too - cuz, wtf ,those things sometimes manage to run outside the nuke radius of a tank missile. Makes it totally impossible to go through at 50/0 game these days with a tank that I HAD TO PAY SO MUCH ISK FOR!! It is just not balanced! You're very angry about vehicles, and other than the missile turrets, they're not really that bad. I'm a Swarm-based AV guy on my main and run AV as a secondary role on both my alts, only one of whom has ever owned any tanks or dropships.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.11.20 06:18:00 - [10] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: as a skilled tank driver i will say this, forge guns are semi balanced other then the 3 hit kill through 7000 shields and the 4 hit kill through 10000 armour. in my personal opinion they need a slight Nerf, very slight just enough to give the tank a fighting chance against the forge gunner 3 miles away on the side of the hill >_> LMAO. Right. Cuz it's not fair that you don't get to keep your cheap half a mil ISK tank through 10 straight 30/0 games right? We need to nerf FG cuz obviously those OP things just totally control the game now and make it impossible to field a tank. On a related note, we should nerf infantry speed too - cuz, wtf ,those things sometimes manage to run outside the nuke radius of a tank missile. Makes it totally impossible to go through at 50/0 game these days with a tank that I HAD TO PAY SO MUCH ISK FOR!! It is just not balanced! You're very angry about vehicles, and other than the missile turrets, they're not really that bad. I'm a Swarm-based AV guy on my main and run AV as a secondary role on both my alts, only one of whom has ever owned any tanks or dropships. I am not mad about anything. This post just amused me. I don't see a connect between the topic and the fact that you have numerous AV alts. As for the 'vehicles are not bad other than missile turrets' comment, I in general agree but it's been a long while since I saw a non-missile tank fielded. And that makes sense - if someone wants easy kills, might as well be bold-faced about it - why half-S it with a non-missile tank.

The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.11.20 06:50:00 - [11] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: LAV's are definitely skill based. A good LAV driver can tear up the battlefield. My Saga costs me 365 K, and I've taken out a couple of tanks with it. My only deaths are multiple swarms/forge hits, or tanks. very interesting you using double damage mods and the best modules to price it up so high? Im driving them myself and i got the best turret and the best damage mods on it. I assume you use the most expensive shield modules otherwise i dont see how you could get there. But in the end the best and the low priced shield extenders are only like 120HP apart and does not benefit you very much. And the best shield booster grants you only a 5 sec bonus on cooldown.
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.11.20 06:53:00 - [12] - Quote Watched a tank with 7k shields get tank out with a prototype laser gun on it. Was pretty epic.
Luther Mandrix Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 53	Posted - 2012.11.20 09:22:00 - [13] - Quote I like vehicles and forge guns as is. All I do is fight vehicles.As I have leveled up to level 5 forge proff ,I have notice ccp dialing back a few things.I had a longer Range with my forge gun at a lower level of profiency.And I could kill an RDV with 4 shots at level 4 then at level 5 it took 5 shots ? .It seems that ccp maybe adjusting things as we go or it could be lag or other issues.Note as of yesterday I took out a RDV with 4 shots again.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.20 12:56:00 - [14] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Wait, are you seriously saying that a tank does not have a chance against a heavy with a forge gun? Even you have just said it takes 3-4 forge hits (and those are probably proto because I can't 3 hit kill a tank with my standard forge) to take your tank down. Do you really want us to believe that you can't kill a forge gunner, even one who is sitting all the way across the map, with a single missile barrage? Come on now, there is no way a forge is OP. Obv not a HAV driver Forge gunners hide behind hills and the only way THE ONLY WAY to get a kill on that forge gunner is a direct hit, he charges up and pops out for less than a couple of seconds fires the gun and hits the tank and is back behind the hill 'OP' missiles splash damage doesnt travel over the hill
Mobius Kaethis Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 306	Posted - 2012.11.20 13:32:00 - [15] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Obviously not a HAV driver Forge gunners hide behind hills and the only way THE ONLY WAY to get a kill on that forge gunner is a direct hit, he charges up and pops out for less than a couple of seconds fires the gun and hits the tank and is back behind the hill 'OP' missiles splash damage doesn't travel over the hill That is all, wait for it, untrue. Having played as both a HAV gunner and forge gunner I can tell you that you just need some elevation. With the height advantage you don't have to get a direct hit just the splash damage will kill the heavy. Don't shoot the hill shoot the rise right behind where the heavy is hiding. Your top turret gunner almost always has this height advantage. If you are QQing about places where you can't get the splash damage upper hand, a rare animal indeed thanks to the limited range on a forge gun (there are some of these if you hide in your red-line but the forge gun's range does not reach far enough to cover lots of the map when you do this thus limiting your anti-vehicle effectiveness) then perhaps you need to remember that your missiles have unlimited range. You are not hindered by only being able to kill your choosen target by getting close, your missile tank can spam red dots with missiles all the way across the map. Don't forget HAV drivers, the maps as they currently stand are only a tiny fraction of the full maps. Your unlimited missile range will be an even more massive advantage in future builds since you will be able to hit others from the other side of the map with the help of spotters on comms while forge gunners will still be limited by the range of their weapon and having to be dead on with their shot. If you are really having a hard time surviving us little forge gunners perhaps you should take up the baby tank driver move of hiding in your red-line to protect your precious isk investment. edit: You will notice that I never said the missile launcher is OP.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.11.20 13:46:00 - [16] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: LAV's are definitely skill based. A good LAV driver can tear up the battlefield. My Saga costs me 365 K, and I've taken out a couple of tanks with it. My only deaths are multiple swarms/forge hits, or tanks. very interesting you using double damage mods and the best modules to price it up so high? Im driving them myself and i got the best turret and the best damage mods on it. I assume you use the most expensive shield modules otherwise i dont see how you could get there. But in the end the best and the low priced shield extenders are only like 120HP apart and does not benefit you very much. And the best shield booster grants you only a 5 sec bonus on cooldown. 2 Advanced PGU, Prototype Accelerated Turrets, F-35 Shield Extender, Shield Hardener, and the CL-3 Shield Recharger. I could have it cost less but every point counts, especially since I've survived a couple times with only 140 or so armor.
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 317	Posted - 2012.11.20 14:10:00 - [17] - Quote all I see here is QQ from lone wolves wanting to solo every thing. L2P issues that's all. I will give you a tip There are three defining elements to killing HAV's, you need one of the following 1: another vehicle 2: good positioning 3: team work with at least one of those you will be able to take out or at worst suppress any HAV. If you expect to go toe to toe you will always loose. With the coming event there will be more things to blow up so I for one will be going more AV to earn some serious ISK.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.20 14:23:00 - [18] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Obviously not a HAV driver Forge gunners hide behind hills and the only way THE ONLY WAY to get a kill on that forge gunner is a direct hit, he charges up and pops out for less than a couple of seconds fires the gun and hits the tank and is back behind the hill 'OP' missiles splash damage doesn't travel over the hill That is all, wait for it, untrue. Having played as both a HAV gunner and forge gunner I can tell you that you just need some elevation. With the height advantage you don't have to get a direct hit just the splash damage will kill the heavy. Don't shoot the hill shoot the rise right behind where the heavy is hiding. Your top turret gunner almost always has this height advantage. . BS Forge gunners hide behind the peaks of hills where you need a direct hit, ther is no wall behind them, what do you expect me to do bounce a missile off the cloud to hit em? When forge gunners are in that position they are safe and i need a direct hit or hope they run out of ammo, they do it to me all the time and the majority of forge gunners do this, some have even figured away to peak out where i will never hit them but yet be able to fire the forge gun and hit me everytime
Knightshade Belladonna Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2012.11.20 14:25:00 - [19] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: LAV's are definitely skill based. A good LAV driver can tear up the battlefield. My Saga costs me 365 K, and I've taken out a couple of tanks with it. My only deaths are multiple swarms/forge hits, or tanks. very interesting you using double damage mods and the best modules to price it up so high? Im driving them myself and i got the best turret and the best damage mods on it. I assume you use the most expensive shield modules otherwise i dont see how you could get there. But in the end the best and the low priced shield extenders are only like 120HP apart and does not benefit you very much. And the best shield booster grants you only a 5 sec bonus on cooldown. 2 Advanced PGU, Prototype Accelerated Turrets, F-35 Shield Extender, Shield Hardener, and the CL-3 Shield Recharger. I could have it cost less but every point counts, especially since I've survived a couple times with only 140 or so armor. You are doing way to much than neccessary for your LAV , I could get the same effectiveness and survivability out of my fit that is 1/5 the cost. No matter what you throw on there, when it comes to LAV you have to just be a good driver and know your surroundings. It just takes one fk up and 2 swarm launches to ruin your day. I have lasted entire matches a few times in mine, while seeing much more expensive ones die in less than a min. Not saying I am great with them, as I am just mediocre i would say , but I do know investing that much into them is pointless.. If your willing to invest that much into an LAV just put together some good tanks instead.
Luther Mandrix Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 53	Posted - 2012.11.20 20:58:00 - [20] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Wait, are you seriously saying that a tank does not have a chance against a heavy with a forge gun? Even you have just said it takes 3-4 forge hits (and those are probably proto because I can't 3 hit kill a tank with my standard forge) to take your tank down. Do you really want us to believe that you can't kill a forge gunner, even one who is sitting all the way across the map, with a single missile barrage? Come on now, there is no way a forge is OP. Obv not a HAV driver Forge gunners hide behind hills and the only way THE ONLY WAY to get a kill on that forge gunner is a direct hit, he charges up and pops out for less than a couple of seconds fires the gun and hits the tank and is back behind the hill 'OP' missiles splash damage doesnt travel over the hill You still got me behind the hill at B

SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2012.11.20 21:56:00 - [21] - Quote I can't believe my eyes. Is a tank pilot complaining about forges? Is the guy whose sitting in a million dollar tank one shotting everything with a turret that shoots 4 missiles at unlimited range with 2 more people able to jump in and help complaining that his shield tank that can wishstand 4 hits from a prototype forge and run after the first hit to go charge shields... is too squishy? Then I complain that proto forges suck, one fires as soon as charged, the other takes 6 seconds and unable to move, and at such a damn price I shouldn't be getting fall backs in usage, charging behind cover and firing on a tank that 1 shots me is all we forgers have. If this guy can complain he's too squishy then I complain we're not only too squishy, we're limited, over priced, and useless for anything but anti-air.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.11.20 23:47:00 - [22] - Quote I also have a saga fitting that costs 280,000 ISK. Not only is it too easy for AVers to take it out, but it also needs a gunner to be effective. Unlike tanks.
Mobius Kaethis Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 306	Posted - 2012.11.21 05:04:00 - [23] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: I can't believe my eyes. Is a tank pilot complaining about forges? Is the guy whose sitting in a million dollar tank one shotting everything with a turret that shoots 4 missiles at unlimited range with 2 more people able to jump in and help complaining that his shield tank that can wishstand 4 hits from a prototype forge and run after the first hit to go charge shields... is too squishy? Then I complain that proto forges suck, one fires as soon as charged, the other takes 6 seconds and unable to move, and at such a damn price I shouldn't be getting fall backs in usage, charging behind cover and firing on a tank that 1 shots me is all we forgers have. If this guy can complain he's too squishy then I complain we're not only too squishy, we're limited, over priced, and useless for anything but anti-air. Thank you SoTa PoP. This is exactly what I was trying to expain to EnlishSnake. The reward/risk ratio for tank driving is currently much higher than that of an AV player thanks to the number of kills a skilled tank driver can get versus the risk of being killed by a forge. Really forge gunning is a tough road to hoe. He failed to notice that I never called for a buff to forge or a nerf to tanks either. It seems that all EnglishSnake wants to do is complain about other people identifying a problem that he is clearly taking advantage of.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 82	Posted - 2012.11.21 10:51:00 - [24] - Quote Forge gunners are complaining. HAV drivers are complaining. Forge vs HAV must be pretty balanced then. Good job CCP.
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.11.21 10:57:00 - [25] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: Forge gunners are complaining. HAV drivers are complaining. Forge vs HAV must be pretty balanced then. Good job CCP. Agreed but we will see
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.21 11:06:00 - [26] - Quote I've had an all-Militia tank one-shotted by a well-skilled and well-fitted Forge Gunner. I came back and Shotgunned him in the back of the head before calling in another tank and being more careful the next time. Knowing the damage stats of the top-level Forge Guns, I can safely say that my HAV which I fitted for less than 200k ISK is capable of taking a solid hit from anything but the highest-damage Prototype Forge with Proto Damage Mods. I've had a Heavy suit dropped by a single Large Railgun hit. After driving a Rail tank myself, I've realised that shot wasn't as easy as it looked. I've also realised that Railgun sniping is hilarious fun, but that I'm not very good at it. Also, a well-tanked Heavy suit has about the same amount of armour as my first attempt at fitting a Sica. I was kind of surprised when I noticed that. But then I looked at the shields, and it was all good again.
Overlord Zero Doomheim 75	Posted - 2013.01.09 05:40:00 - [27] - Quote Back to the main point, since tankers still QQ, quit yo btchn!
rebecca watson Universal Allies Inc. 41	Posted - 2013.01.09 08:03:00 - [28] - Quote im that merc chasing u with av nades and a nanohive. AR works better for self defense. Yes, the chances of dying are high, but most of the time i drive them back into cover, and it only takes militia fittings to get the job done. And damn, is it fun. Soloing a tank, or contributing to its demise, priceless =)
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2013.01.09 14:22:00 - [29] - Quote Handheld Forge gun stronger than a vehicle mounted railgun Hm yea that makes sense...
NAV HIV The Generals 151	Posted - 2013.01.09 14:30:00 - [30] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Handheld Forge gun stronger than a vehicle mounted railgun Hm yea that makes sense... Good thing they dont lock on or turn 90 degrees yet...



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