DUST Search - Forge guns don't seem to be worth the trouble.

Overlord Zero wrote:

Your point's, invalid. Your overall idea, valid. Picture this. 2 maxed Myrons and 2 maxed gunlogis + infantry vs a field full of forge gunners + infantry. Vehicle side wins hands down every time. Why? Well, forge guns have limited range and poor aiming, so being semi close to a target is a must. In order to get close to a tank, you have to navigate through dropship fire and infantry. Who's gonna take out the dropships so you can get at the tanks? Swarm launchers? Ha! Oh, right, you. Ok. So you try to line up a shot on a dropship, you have it in your sights, you fire right at it, and.... nothing. Why?! Oh, right, not enough range. Well, got to get closer. Oh wait, freaking tanks.

Yes, you can upgrade your forge range. Guess what? A dropship or tank turret can still hit you with OHK missiles FAR outside even max range on a forge gun. And missile splash damage? WAY better than forge gun splash.

Missiles are the real issue here sonce no one has been complaining about rail guns or blasters recently. I have a forge gun that cannot hit you to 5HK you, but YOU CAN hit ME with a missile that will OHK me.

Pilots say "My vehicle SHOULD be taking them out easy, that's what it's made to do!" Perhaps. Except your argument doesn't take into account the fact that this is not real life where things are supposed to work as they do in real life, this is a game where things must be balanced in order to succeed. Also, your argument doesn't take into account that forge guns are weapons that do not exist in reality and therefore cannot be gauged against what you know about tanks in real life.

Edit: As for the pricing issue, aka "Tanks cost way more than forge guns!". HMG's cost way more than assault rifles as well, but AR's still kill HMG users quite often. And LAV's can be pretty darn expensive too with turrets and damage mods and all, but a decent level AV 'nade takes them out just as easy for a fraction of the cost of the LAV. I have a Saga personally that runs 300,000+, but the top level AV grenade costs less than 10% of that cost


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Jonquill Caronite Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.11.17 08:35:00 - [1] - Quote Overlord Zero wrote: Your point's, invalid. Your overall idea, valid. Picture this. 2 maxed Myrons and 2 maxed gunlogis + infantry vs a field full of forge gunners + infantry. Vehicle side wins hands down every time. Why? Well, forge guns have limited range and poor aiming, so being semi close to a target is a must. In order to get close to a tank, you have to navigate through dropship fire and infantry. Who's gonna take out the dropships so you can get at the tanks? Swarm launchers? Ha! Oh, right, you. Ok. So you try to line up a shot on a dropship, you have it in your sights, you fire right at it, and.... nothing. Why?! Oh, right, not enough range. Well, got to get closer. Oh wait, freaking tanks. Yes, you can upgrade your forge range. Guess what? A dropship or tank turret can still hit you with OHK missiles FAR outside even max range on a forge gun. And missile splash damage? WAY better than forge gun splash. Missiles are the real issue here sonce no one has been complaining about rail guns or blasters recently. I have a forge gun that cannot hit you to 5HK you, but YOU CAN hit ME with a missile that will OHK me. Pilots say "My vehicle SHOULD be taking them out easy, that's what it's made to do!" Perhaps. Except your argument doesn't take into account the fact that this is not real life where things are supposed to work as they do in real life, this is a game where things must be balanced in order to succeed. Also, your argument doesn't take into account that forge guns are weapons that do not exist in reality and therefore cannot be gauged against what you know about tanks in real life. Edit: As for the pricing issue, aka "Tanks cost way more than forge guns!". HMG's cost way more than assault rifles as well, but AR's still kill HMG users quite often. And LAV's can be pretty darn expensive too with turrets and damage mods and all, but a decent level AV 'nade takes them out just as easy for a fraction of the cost of the LAV. I have a Saga personally that runs 300,000+, but the top level AV grenade costs less than 10% of that cost Honestly... This game will probably work perfectly in spite of all that's being said, it will balance EVE by being a HUGE initial ISK sink... So at first everyone and their mother will spend all they can to be as OP as possible, and because Dust stuff is 'relatively' cheap compared to EVE stuff, it won't even scratch EVE Corp budgets... But the key here is that its a battle of attrition... The amount of ISK being generated by throwing Prototypes out willy-nilly and blowing them up par for par, will never ever be greater then what is lost. Why is this relevant? Simple for the first 3 months of this game after launch, it will be a huge ISK sink, and balance inflation, and remove some of the extremely top heavy difference by reducing the wallets of all the rich people who can afford to fund this ground wars. But as players on both sides get smarter they'll realize that winning battles isn't important if what you LOSE in the battle doesn't equal even close to what you gain. Winning battles in a 'cost effective' manner will become more important then winning battles period... This is where tanks come in and rather or not they are balance... Right now they actually are balanced in spite of the cost. Because you can't afford to fund both sides of a tank blitz for eternity, they are still enough of a sink that if you try to do that it will sink the EVE economy just as fast as it will sink the Dust economy... Sure it will solve the inflation problem... But the new problem will be no ISK at all... In any case the hypothetical was all tank crews with infantry support, versus all Forge crews with infantry support. Which will win? Well obviously the tank, I agree with the poster on this point... However, this is where its important to pay attention, even though the tanks will win, even given the fact that Heavies with weapons and gear are expensive, they don't even come close to the cost of Tanks with support and hear... This is important because in a war with two sides doing this, one side may lose all the battles, but if they can slow down the others advance and attrify their wallet, then the forge side will win hands down... And then pushing the enemy back is as easy as can be... Fact of the matter is: TANKS DONT NEED ANOTHER NERF. But neither do they need a buff... You just need to recognize that there is more to this game then K/D ratio, or W/L ratio, or even individual cost... All are important, and if you aren't viewing balance from the perspective of ALL THREE, then you are ignorant of the way this game needs to be balanced...