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charging up Rail ARs

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Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.11 23:18:00 - [1] - Quote laser are pretty powerful but require dead eye aim blasters are fair for the average player and I guess projectiles would be immune to EM effects but what about Railguns they cant just be for flavor version of the others right. a think rail ARs and any Auto rail guns could have a short charge up before they unleash their payload and in return they have high damage and low recoil but they cant just hold the trigger spray till they let go, they would have to hold build up 1 or 1.5 seconds of charge then it could unleash a high damage and low recoil burst ranging from until you let go of the trigger or in concentrated burst depending on the model standard burst breach etc. so like the lasers are high damage, no recoil but has low RoF. the rails could have high damage low recoil and good RoF but half to be have charge to be used, albeit a short charge depending on the model but still it cant be very useful if they get the jump on you but power accuracy and range all at the cost of having to charge it up and if you donGÇÖt well SoL.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.11 23:37:00 - [2] - Quote Handheld railgun tech is already in the game. It's called a "Sniper Rifle" - maybe you've heard of them? Low RoF, and a chargeable version with variable damage based on charge time.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.11 23:48:00 - [3] - Quote i think the title even has AR in maybe im talking about HMGs or laser rifles though or maybe you saw a S where the A was im not sure how to respond to this.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 388	Posted - 2012.11.11 23:56:00 - [4] - Quote Like Eve it'll most likely be rapid fire, low damage
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.11 23:58:00 - [5] - Quote You're talking about adding a handheld weapon based on railgun tech. I was pointing out that they already have one. It's kind of like a really slow-firing, high damage tactical AR... kind of. And it has a charge mechanic - just not on every variant. Laser Rifle isn't an AR either, and you used that as an example, so I don't see the point in disallowing Sniper Rifles as a relevant example.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.12 00:06:00 - [6] - Quote as an example since there is only 1 type of AR currently, and any sniper would work a differently than a frontline weapon realworld snipers are simi automatic so snipers can pick up thier brass where as front line weapons are full auto. so there is a difference between disign philopshy i just thought this would be a way give the weapons a more futuristic feel having to charge up a full auto weapon and such.
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 320	Posted - 2012.11.12 00:10:00 - [7] - Quote I believe in Dust we are going to get lots of different spins of technology. An AR will have a gallente, caldari, minmatar, and amarr varient. I'm bored of just having a Gallente AR and just an amarr pistol, and just a Caldari assault suit... I love the idea of a railgun based AR.. I may not have gotten the idea quite right but I do like thinking of a gun where you charge it for maybe 1 second and it keeps a charge for 10 seconds. For each round fired it reduces the charge by maybe a 10th of a second. It would need an advantage like range, rof, or damage... But it would be very fun to use.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.12 00:21:00 - [8] - Quote Reimus Klinsman wrote: I believe in Dust we are going to get lots of different spins of technology. An AR will have a gallente, caldari, minmatar, and amarr varient. I'm bored of just having a Gallente AR and just an amarr pistol, and just a Caldari assault suit... I love the idea of a railgun based AR.. I may not have gotten the idea quite right but I do like thinking of a gun where you charge it for maybe 1 second and it keeps a charge for 10 seconds. For each round fired it reduces the charge by maybe a 10th of a second. It would need an advantage like range, rof, or damage... But it would be very fun to use. i was think more like a where you charge it then it fires its like a normal AR but you have to charge it , and if you let go of the trigger once its charged and started firing then it stops and you have to charge again. so this type of system wouldnGÇÖt favor you going wide or being conservative and would have little margin for error but it can kill and it can kill accurately.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.12 00:27:00 - [9] - Quote Honestly, now your idea is sounding like a chaingun's wind-up time, but with a different explanation behind it. Could be an interesting idea. Sorry for not really getting the point at first.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.11.12 00:33:00 - [10] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpJQjwKs6Kg Could be it

Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.12 00:35:00 - [11] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Honestly, now your idea is sounding like a chaingun's wind-up time, but with a different explanation behind it. Could be an interesting idea. Sorry for not really getting the point at first. sorry for not explaining it well that was my bad Quote: Like Eve it'll most likely be rapid fire, low damage that would work to just to, high RoF low damage, Good accuracy, high range, large clip but you half to hold r1 and charge it before it goes full auto and the most version shouldnGÇÖt allow you to store that charge like some forges do the breach and standard version would charge up then automatically start firing until you let go of the trigger a burst variant could hold a charge and when you let go it starts firing its burst. btw the chain guns wind-up is a good description
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.12 00:44:00 - [12] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpJQjwKs6Kg Could be it that looked pretty awesome but 60 rounds, 640 meters effective 700 RPM. these two stats were unclear fire mode selector, and bolt activated circut and 10 x 39mm first it sound like a even long range version of the current AR and since a 7.62+ù51mm is the stand RL AR round that would make these about equal in damage sicne rails rely on surface area to connect to that extra 3 should give it enough. so longer range ARs i wouldnt be particularly pleased with that first more rounds and higher RoF could balance the charge up idea and so long as were figthing on small maps there will be request to nerf most long range tools that and the fact the AR has more range than the current sniper would bother some poeple i hope CCP choose a different disign phisohy than this it would only be popular becuase of its OP range. so i hope ccp doesnt do them like this and this is just and older bit of concept work
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.12 16:30:00 - [13] - Quote i want the guns to feel like they are from the future something to show of and that isnt simply point shoot move on. by making the Railgun like this we get a amazing idea, a powerful weapon, but one that requires player skill and practice to use anywhere near effectively.
Wintars Boar ZionTCD Legacy Rising 64	Posted - 2012.11.12 18:38:00 - [14] - Quote We need the racial variants. The reason the LR is getting such an up tick in use is something for that med long range is needed before AR range. I was hoping the scrambler rifle would fill this, but a rail tech AR would work nicely. The reason the LR works rather well is often you are shooting before they can shoot back, so you can scope in and focus on aim more than dodging. With that in mind the charge up time mentioned would work nicely for the same reason. You have the time to prep at med-longish range. Racial variants NOW! Please
Kharga Lum Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 33	Posted - 2012.11.12 19:23:00 - [15] - Quote i don't understand why you'd charge a rail gun. A brief cool down after the shot I'd understand. In eve rail guns are long range low damage weapons with a good rate of fire. Rail guns have the lowest dps out there and generally suck in Eve. They're good if you have a lot of them or if you're shooting at something small at range. Although in Eve blasters are ship mounted shotguns not the machine guns they are in Dust so who knows what they'll do.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.12 20:42:00 - [16] - Quote Kharga Lum wrote: i don't understand why you'd charge a rail gun. A brief cool down after the shot I'd understand. In eve rail guns are long range low damage weapons with a good rate of fire. Rail guns have the lowest dps out there and generally suck in Eve. They're good if you have a lot of them or if you're shooting at something small at range. Although in Eve blasters are ship mounted shotguns not the machine guns they are in Dust so who knows what they'll do. Railgun turrets - small and large - on tanks in DUST require charge time to fire. Charge Sniper Rifle in DUST is, like all the game's Sniper Rifles, based on railgun tech, and also requires a charge to fire. There's in-game and in-universe precedent for railguns to work this way in DUST.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.12 20:51:00 - [17] - Quote Kharga Lum wrote: i don't understand why you'd charge a rail gun. A brief cool down after the shot I'd understand. In eve rail guns are long range low damage weapons with a good rate of fire. Rail guns have the lowest dps out there and generally suck in Eve. They're good if you have a lot of them or if you're shooting at something small at range. Although in Eve blasters are ship mounted shotguns not the machine guns they are in Dust so who knows what they'll do. well i love the mobility and power the ARs give me and i got a hold of a forge gun the other day and well hearing the clunk as I loaded a mag and preceded to charge it up was impressive and made the gun work like nothing else in dust which made it immensely popular for me it felt like it was a something unique to dust so i followed the conclusion and this is the firing mechanic mixed somewhere between a burst, a forge and a standard AR. you charge the gun up like you would a forge or other railguns once the charge is full it unloads its clip till you run out of ammo or let go of the trigger, this would have to be balanced by having a reasonable DPS to counter balance the fact getting jumped is a death sentence for this weapon. besides having large mag high RoF and good accuracy to blance its DPS agianst low damage per bullet and would stick to the rail guns of EVE but this weapon needs to be acuarate and have a high DPS so it can counter ARs
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.13 02:25:00 - [18] - Quote Well I want CCP to get this one right the first try. I going to start pinballing ideas and working to balance out the charge up for killing power. First ill list some general stuff about blaster ARs we got now and basic/standard gear we have now. First a basic assault suit has little less than 300 HP and a standard AR has 60 round per clip at 750 RPM(roughly 12 per second so 6 seconds and your empty) with each bullet doing 30 that means 9 or 10 rounds will do in assault. Now you rarely see someone dropped that quick cause people miss. alot. But if you ever snuck up on a sniper then you can contest to this before they can even react you've killed them. So working with that knowledge and accounting for human error here is the ground work for a more difficult player skill intense weapon. First going off logic that its easier to store gas or ferromagnetic rounds than a mimitar primer, case and bullet deal will go with about 77 rounds per mag from a logical standpoint now will say it has a 930 RPM so 15.5 rounds a sec working with that each round should do about 28 to make up for the fact it has to charge up first. 10 rounds will do an unmodded suit in .66 sec. So a AR that never miss can kill you in .90 sec and this gun could kill you in 66. So it can kill you faster but it has to charge up for a second counter this I would also say the standard variant would still allow you to move but you can't hold a charge. A tactical variant can have more power but you can't move while it charging and you still can't hold a charge. A burst variant could hold a charge and even have half the charge time but it would take two burst to take out a suit so still a seconds of charge time.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 02:36:00 - [19] - Quote You're forgetting to account for something important. Headshots. ARs can land kills on Assaults with only 3 - 5 shots (depending on fitting) if you can get them all on-target in a smaller area. Less than 1/2 a second. Yours would be maybe 1/3 of a second if you can line up the headshots.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.13 02:42:00 - [20] - Quote Not sure on those number the rail ARs ahould be able to kill 30% faster so 1/2 do some math 3/6 30% thing 2/6 simplify 1/3 yeah looks like it. So what do you think about these stats?

Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:02:00 - [21] - Quote Bump
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:18:00 - [22] - Quote If anything, I think a full second of charging might leave it feeling underpowered more than overpowered. Especially if you can't hold a charge on the weapon. Well-used, it would be incredible. For ambushes, it would potentially be up there with shotguns for destructive capabilities. But if YOU'RE the one being ambushed, the delay before firing would probably kill you. Seems fair to me.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:11:00 - [23] - Quote i figured the stats would be set up so it has plenty of killing power by it selfs but the charge up is its major drawback, with the standard and breach version if your the one ambushing then your good but if you get ambushed especially with the breach your dead, the breach however trades in the ability to move while charging for even higher DPS so if you can ambush a heavy of = tier you should be able to bring him down but if you ever get caught off guard with the breach version might as well give up 1 second charge + unable to move is a death sentence, where as the standard varient doesnt let you hold a charge it does let you move around with no impendment to movement. then theres the burst version it can hold a charge and let you but it should take 2 burst each taking 0.5 seconds to charge up so eitehr way to kill someone you should still be taking a second of charge time the burst just lets you spread it out and hold the charge. of course it would have its draw backs like human error mean rarely will you get exactly 0.5 seconds since you have to let go of the trigger before it release it burst. hope CCP sees all this discussion
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:40:00 - [24] - Quote I just had a different idea for a Burst version that I think would work nicely as a contrasting system. Charge has to be built up for at least 0.5 second, at which point, a burst will be fired when you release the trigger. The longer you hold the trigger for after the 0.5s mark, the more shots will be fired in the burst.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.13 16:52:00 - [25] - Quote Didn't think about that but that might border OP the streagth of the burst was being able to hold a charge and still move around but the fact that you have to do atleast 2 burst balanced. Most people would probably walk around always holding a charge so it would defeat the point of the standard
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 16:55:00 - [26] - Quote Ops Fox wrote: Didn't think about that but that might border OP the streagth of the burst was being able to hold a charge and still move around but the fact that you have to do atleast 2 burst balanced. Most people would probably walk around always holding a charge so it would defeat the point of the standard But if it was a burst with variable amount of shots fired, holding the charge would just waste ammo when you run into a scout, and unless you landed every bullet int he head, you'd be struggling to take down a well-fitted Heavy even with a fully-charged burst.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.13 18:55:00 - [27] - Quote I still think a specific amount per burst would be better than varying burst. Explain your point again it wasn't very clear
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 19:03:00 - [28] - Quote 0.5 second charge: 3 round burst 0.6 second charge: 4 round burst 0.7 second charge: 5 round burst 0.8 second charge: 7 round burst 0.9 second charge: 8 round burst 1.0 second charge: 10 round burst Not necessarily those specific numbers, but just as an example. If you spot a Scout, you can charge a short burst and fire at mid-range. If you're waiting for a Heavy, you can hold fire for longer and fire a more powerful burst. If you're up against a target you're unsure of the durability of, you can fire partial charges to conserve ammo.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.13 21:52:00 - [29] - Quote I see it has your trading in control of bullets for holding charges thats how I see it your trading holding charges for burst if you allow them to hold the charge and choose bullet amount your putting out the standard which lets you control the amount by letting go when you want for a larger charge time and un able to hold. I thinking doing it like you sugggesred would be to much the ability to control the amount, hold charges and smaller charge time would be to much also the burst would simply be a better version of the standard varient it seams. The burst is more for that killing power and less getting ambushed by players at a cost.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.13 22:07:00 - [30] - Quote To clarify I see it like this (early I called the breach version tactical ignore that early name) Standard: high DPS, accuracy, and range balanced by second charge time and cant holding a charge Vs Breach: more power and more bullets balance by being unable to move while charging Vs burst: shorter charge time and holding a charge balanced by small burst

Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.14 14:03:00 - [31] - Quote Bump
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.14 14:27:00 - [32] - Quote Ops Fox wrote: To clarify I see it like this (early I called the breach version tactical ignore that early name) Standard: high DPS, accuracy, and range balanced by second charge time and cant holding a charge Vs Breach: more power and more bullets balance by being unable to move while charging Vs burst: shorter charge time and holding a charge balanced by small burst I rather like how you've worded this.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.15 13:59:00 - [33] - Quote Now I'm trying to get more response to this idea for a caldari rail AR and would like more feedback on the idea its self. I'm trying to get as much exposure to it out. So bump
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.11.19 20:40:00 - [34] - Quote Bump
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2013.02.03 03:11:00 - [35] - Quote bump


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