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April White
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
2
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Posted - 2012.11.09 09:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
There might be several similar topics on this forum but I have new idea here. It is definitely not right when I and my logi-bros repairing teammates only because of sence of duty. Many true logi turned away from repairing because there is no reward.
I think this decision to eliminate WP reward is to hasty. It can be done similar way as reward for squad leaders orders was reduced.
Or it can be made so: WP can be awarded after full repair. For example you heal your teammate and once he reach 100% armor you get WP. This might leave no space for those who was repairing MCC cause they won't be able to repair it fully.
Free for discussions.
P.S.: I want my WP back ) |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
206
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Posted - 2012.11.09 09:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
*chops own finger off so it cant be pointed at certain corps* |
Villore Isu
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
115
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Posted - 2012.11.09 09:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
For the last time, WP for repairing is coming back, it's removal was always just a temporary measure.
CCP didn't really have much choice in the matter, either do something quickly that only required a hot fix to implement while they worked on a proper fix, or leave the game broken as all hell while they worked on a proper fix. They wisely chose the former. |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
140
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Posted - 2012.11.09 09:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Villore Isu wrote:For the last time, WP for repairing is coming back, it's removal was always just a temporary measure.
CCP didn't really have much choice in the matter, either do something quickly that only required a hot fix to implement while they worked on a proper fix, or leave the game broken as all hell while they worked on a proper fix. They wisely chose the former.
6 weeks is not temporary, it like taking grenades off an assault suit for six weeks and the developers not saying anything but 'Soon Tm'.
I refuse to believe it's that much of an issue considering OB's now cost 3X as much. It's a vital mechanic in the game and if noone is healing then organized teams will roflstomp un-organized teams.
Im runing Armour repair nanohives so at least there is someway for the noobs on my team to try and get some armor back. |
ICECREAMK1NG
WARRIORS 1NC
391
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Posted - 2012.11.09 12:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
KripnawtiQ Prime wrote:*chops own finger off so it cant be pointed at certain corps*
Well I'll say it then.
Seraphim Initiative started it all, so blame them.  |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
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Posted - 2012.11.09 12:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Guinevere Bravo wrote:
6 weeks is not temporary.
You could not be more wrong ... 'permanent' is not temporary ... temporary can be as long as you want provided it is going to be changed.
The temporary hotfix was for this build as they can't do anything other than some minor number changes between new builds reducing WP gain for repairing to zero was the easiest temporary fix to the LAV / dropship repair farming and OB spamming.
There were countless discussions of permanent fixes back at the start of this build but they all required a re-code of one thing or another which isn't possible without releasing a new build.
The new build isn't long off now ... expect to have WP for repairs back as soon as it lands. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
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Posted - 2012.11.09 12:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
ICECREAMK1NG wrote:KripnawtiQ Prime wrote:*chops own finger off so it cant be pointed at certain corps* Well I'll say it then. Seraphim Initiative started it all, so blame them.
I might add ... SI can take credit for finding it and making sure everyone was aware of it ... then they moved on to find something else.
You can blame the Warriors for exploiting it beyond reason match after match, day after day, even quitting ambush matches to get into a skirmish to exploit it even more ... forcing CCP to take whatever measures necessary to make it impossible.
I've actually seen some of your guys carrying guns since then ... couldn't believe my eyes ! |
Daera Cadaith
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.11.09 12:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
I was wondering after starting out why there was no bonus for not repping, but looks like I was correct thinking it was a beta thing. |
ATR Kuan Ti
Above The Rest
64
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Posted - 2012.11.09 13:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
ICECREAMK1NG wrote:KripnawtiQ Prime wrote:*chops own finger off so it cant be pointed at certain corps* Well I'll say it then. Seraphim Initiative started it all, so blame them.
LOL we all know WARRIORS INC had no part in it and by no part mean its 85% them |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
140
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Posted - 2012.11.09 15:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Guinevere Bravo wrote:
6 weeks is not temporary.
You could not be more wrong ... 'permanent' is not temporary ... temporary can be as long as you want provided it is going to be changed. The temporary hotfix was for this build as they can't do anything other than some minor number changes between new builds reducing WP gain for repairing to zero was the easiest temporary fix to the LAV / dropship repair farming and OB spamming. There were countless discussions of permanent fixes back at the start of this build but they all required a re-code of one thing or another which isn't possible without releasing a new build. The new build isn't long off now ... expect to have WP for repairs back as soon as it lands.
Out of Context much?
I would like to see you play your class without an important class tool and tell me it's only "temporary", my interpation would be a couple of days not over a month. Im sure if the assault suits got the nerf bat and lost a high-slot "temporarily" there would be mass QQ.
Quote:There were countless discussions of permanent fixes back at the start of this build but they all required a re-code of one thing or another which isn't possible without releasing a new build.
Got proof of that? A recode?!!? the tool worked fine before, you just needed to add a cap at some point or stop it repairing vehicles for the time being, thats a temporary fix.
I understand its coming back but why release a new build with a completely obsolete tool? hold on for two days work on it and then push it out, it's now scared what ever was a thin playerbase playing "logistics" thinner.
Examples of a thin Logistic player base, would be the complete lack of "uplinks" as they are a necessary tool but noone runs them because everyone is using assault suits and the millitia variant requires a massive SP investment to get them too run on a assault suit.
Then we have countless 'QQ im getting spawn camped' threads, one problem led to another. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.09 16:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Guinevere Bravo wrote:Examples of a thin Logistic player base, would be the complete lack of "uplinks" as they are a necessary tool but noone runs them because everyone is using assault suits and the millitia variant requires a massive SP investment to get them too run on a assault suit.
For a maximum of 80AUR, you can create an infinitely re-usable 0 ISK-per-spawn Drop Uplink fitting.
1. Buy Militia BPOs of the following items: Drop Uplink, Shield Extender, and a BPO Sidearm.
2. Create a new Assault - Triage fitting, or edit the Starter fit version.
3. Replace the AR with your purchased Sidearm, the Nano Injector with the Uplink, and the Damage Mod with the Shield Extender.
The only reason for the Shield Extender is to shave 1 point of PG cost from the fitting to make it fit within the Militia Assault Dropsuit's baseline stats. If you have the Merc Pack, using the Toxin SMG cuts the PG and CPU use enough to easily make a valid fitting, meaning you only have to buy the Uplink BPO, and if you train your Infantry Engineering skill AT ALL - even only to level 1 - you don't need the Shield Extender.
Without AUR, the fitting costs as little as 2020 ISK per use with 0 SP investment (Buy Scrambler Pistols, they're cheaper than SMGs). |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
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Posted - 2012.11.09 17:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Guinevere Bravo wrote:Out of Context much?
Not at all out of context ! Your statement was what I quoted, you then used a comma and went on to say something about removing grenades from an assault, but I stand by the fact that temporary can be as long as you want it to be, provided it WILL be changed.
Guinevere Bravo wrote:I would like to see you play your class without an important class tool and tell me it's only "temporary", my interpation would be a couple of days not over a month. Im sure if the assault suits got the nerf bat and lost a high-slot "temporarily" there would be mass QQ.
Firstly if it's such an important tool there's nothing stopping you using it, if it's for the benefit of your team.
Secondly I DO play my class without an important class tool ... I generally play assault swarm SMG and my main 'tool' is incapable of causing damage to dropships, but I'm not crying on the forums about it, I made sure it was known about and I didn't drop it, I continue to launch them at dropships to keep them moving and make it more difficult for them. I don't doubt there would be mass QQ, there's far too many crying kids in this game,
But this is all beside the point ...
Guinevere Bravo wrote:Got proof of that? A recode?!!? the tool worked fine before, you just needed to add a cap at some point or stop it repairing vehicles for the time being, thats a temporary fix.
This is best I could find after about an hour searching these (joke) forums ... Iron Wolfs paraphrase from the IRC chat with CCP Wolfman ...
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40543&find=unread
Hope that's enough.
Guinevere Bravo wrote:I understand its coming back but why release a new build with a completely obsolete tool? hold on for two days work on it and then push it out, it's now scared what ever was a thin playerbase playing "logistics" thinner.
Examples of a thin Logistic player base, would be the complete lack of "uplinks" as they are a necessary tool but noone runs them because everyone is using assault suits and the millitia variant requires a massive SP investment to get them too run on a assault suit.
Then we have countless 'QQ im getting spawn camped' threads, one problem led to another.
It was the start of this build that the problems with the repair tool began and were temporarily fixed, it wasn't a known problem until after the build was released and several corps started exploiting it, some more than others.
I play a logistics role myself sometimes, with the Sever suit and some bpo militia gear, it's not my specialisation, but I can fill a role if it's not being filled ... I don't use drop uplinks because they don't get used, even if they are in good locations, I believe my team benefits more from everyone, particularly heavies, getting nanohives, repairs and revives.
Hang on ... you say no-one uses uplinks because they don't fit on an assault suit !! ... Assault suits aren't logistics anyway. |
Ziero01
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
11
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Posted - 2012.11.09 18:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Guinevere Bravo wrote:Examples of a thin Logistic player base, would be the complete lack of "uplinks" as they are a necessary tool but noone runs them because everyone is using assault suits and the millitia variant requires a massive SP investment to get them too run on a assault suit.
Then we have countless 'QQ im getting spawn camped' threads, one problem led to another.
I think that's more of an example of "people not knowing how to play" rather then any actual specific problem with the Repair things. Logistics by it's very nature is a roll that requires self sacrifice of one's killing ability to support their teammates and on top of that is an innately expensive role to play. In good Corps, you'll have plenty of Logis with all the gear they need to do their jobs, but in random, squadless PUG matches, you'll have mostly lone wolf FPS Wannabe-heros lone-dogging around like that's actually how things are supposed to work. I mean, you still get points for using Nanite Revives but rarely do I see anyone actually use them either, and they're easy to fit on an Assault Suit.
Personally, my default loadout is a BPO Scount build that includes a militia Drop Uplink. It's completely free, dies in a heartbeat, but once that Uplink is down...then it's job is done and I can switch to a stronger Assault build. So it's not that it's hard to use Uplinks on suits outside of Logis....it's more people just don't care too.
As for the Repair points, they will be back, but nerfing them completely was really the quickest and easiest way to stop a VERY game ruining exploit. As for a way to actual fix the issue completely, imo the simplest way to do it would be to make it so you don't gain WP for fixing Friendly Fire damage and then it's just a matter of making "environment damage" (aka crashing into things) count as Friendly Fire damage.
It stops boosters from hanging in spawns away from battle but lets actual repair guys get all the points they deserve for healing their teams in combat. I've seen it work in other games and I feel it's the best way to balance things in this one. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
319
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Posted - 2012.11.09 18:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
It was a hotfix. It's not ment to stay. CCP just wanted the WP farming to stop while they work in a better system. A New system will require a bunch of programming so they cut WP all together while they get the new system in place. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
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Posted - 2012.11.09 18:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
You are missing the point here. The lack of WP gains from repairing is only temporary.
CCP made it clear that the current system was hotfixed this way so that they can be able to come up with a proper, and permanent, fix in the next build that's coming up in about 1-2 weeks.
The reason CCP did this is because apparently certain groups of players, since the start of the Codex build, were able to farm enough WP quickly enough to create a situation in which there is a Precision Strike literally EVERY MINUTE UNTIL THE MATCH WAS OVER. Because of the complexities of permanently fixing this problem, CCP was only able to do a hotfix to stop the abuse while they take the time to correct the problem permanently in the next build.
Don't worry. WP gains for repairers will be back. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2012.11.09 18:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm a LogiBro, yes the lack of WP on tools (for now only) still sucks and yes it is making character progression harder in this build as one key element of possible SP gain has been eliminated for Logi (all the "but you're logi, taking one of the team is what you do" statements need to just stop, they are ill conceived at best).
That being side CCP has been clear on this issue and I'd rather them take their time and get it right then rush out hotfix after hotfix and have a real fix take even longer. The farming had to stop and the Repair Tool awards system needed an overhaul anyway. I could be mistaken but I think they're taking this time to do both of those badly needed things.
So, while I feel your pain, let's give them some patience until the real fix is in. Then actively test that fix and provide feedback so it can be polished into an equitable and effective triage system for Dust.
0.02 ISK
Cross
EDIT: To provide more feedback on the Repair Tool and other LogiBro related mechanics please check out this thread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=39238
=) |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.11.09 21:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
However they do it, WP for repair needs to come back. I don't care if its less than it used to be, but supporting your teamates shouldn't come at the cost of screwing yourself over. |
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