DUST Search - AR Range & Skills = Counter-Intuitive

Ten-Sidhe wrote:

Hard cap of sniper is ~600m, skills can make this over 850m.

The muzzle speeds are high enough many of the weapons would have no noticeable drop, max range sniper shoot at the top of head would hit bottom of head.

call of duty is hitscan, halo is hitscan(halo 3 wasn't), team fortress 2 is hitscan.
Gears of war and borderlands have projectiles with travel time. Boarderlands has a hard range limit.

I understand battlefield uses around 8-9 times the drop a real bullet has, with dust muzzle speeds over double real life speeds, a realistic drop would not be noticeable.

Minmatar projectile rifles using battlefield like physics would be nice. The plasma ar having travel time would be nice, maybe purple tracers so people know it's not a regular bullet.

The hmg and smg are so close ranged they will hit max range in a frame or two, so hit scan just saves resources that are not needed. Maybe hitscan to optimal, pause and second hitscan after pause to max range for smg and hmg, still probably not worth cpu cycles. We don't need fps to drop when hmgs fire.

Better explaining how mechanics work to new players would be a good thing.


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RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 37	Posted - 2012.11.07 12:17:00 - [1] - Quote Played Dust last night for the first time in a couple of months. First thing that struck me was the improved UI and better feel in the game, great, amazing!. Second thing that struck me, I'm sad to say, was the ridiculous range limitation on the assault rifle. It's bad for the game in at least 2 ways: 1. It's counter-intuitive for a new player. I'm wracking my brains to think of any online FPS in the last 10 years where your bullets time out after 100/150m or whatever the range limit is. My first thought when I observed this was that I was shooting at a friendly or my weapon had been disabled (that would have been a cool feature), it made no sense otherwise. Alas I was mistaken. 2. It's unrealistic. Yes, I realise that super-soldier clones traipsing across the galaxy isn't quite realistic either. But in the confines of this future universe we're playing in, are we to believe that assault rifles have somehow degressed and gone back to the era of muskets. Diriculous stuff, simple as that. "But Red, what about the skills we've trained for range?" I hear you cry. Well, how about make it like in EVERY other single freaking FPS with a range skill. The range skills increase your accuracy at long-range, not the point at which your bullets magically cease to be. Bullet drop has not been an issue for me in this game, I wouldn't even know if it exists as my bullets don't go that far it seems! Now, I'm all for innovation and progress in games, new things should be tried. But this is reinventing the wheel in the shape of a square, the punters won't buy it. A small gripe grant you, but necessary.
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 37	Posted - 2012.11.07 21:05:00 - [2] - Quote Based on others feedback I've taken away a few things from this thread. The plasma nature of our current ARs is one of the justifications for limited range ARs in use. Ok fair enough as long as we get some projectile alternative in the future, but in the mean time that needs to be intuitively communicated. As one player mentions, what we have now appear like tracer rounds. A better visual indicator of rounds timing out would be balls or oblong bolts of plasma that dissipate into nothingness the further they go. Think along the lines of the old plasma rifle in Unreal Tournament or the plasma rifle in Halo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4RXWo3C4 Even then I have a suspicion there will be hard limits on the projectile rifles when they come in (current sniper rifles have a hard limit too right?). What purpose would the range AR skills serve otherwise if they were only good for one AR type? It comes back to the EVE skill system.. I have the feeling CCP are trying to shoehorn too much of what makes EVE special into a game type that is incompatible. Take for example the dropsuit fitting screen, works great in EVE with a mouse and keyboard and all your inventory boxes open but it's just clunky in comparison to other console FPS loadout screens.
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 37	Posted - 2012.11.07 22:03:00 - [3] - Quote Ima Leet wrote: there is a skill that levels this up, Light Weapon Sharpshooter and Sharpshooter Proficiency Forget the posts for a second, did you even read the thread title?
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 37	Posted - 2012.11.07 22:44:00 - [4] - Quote Ima Leet wrote: RedRebelCork wrote: Ima Leet wrote: there is a skill that levels this up, Light Weapon Sharpshooter and Sharpshooter Proficiency Forget the posts [...] why are you posting? AR Range and Skills = Counter intuitive you can skill your sharpshooter up, you want everyone to be able to snipe with AR's from the get go? NTY RedRebelCork wrote: The range skills increase your accuracy at long-range, not the point at which your bullets magically cease to be this thread should be about Forge guns and Railguns, i'm sure those guys dont like they've been nerfed with range. i see no issue with this and AR's Negative. I want bullets to behave like bullets. IRL you try taking on a sniper with an AR at 800m he's going to win. That's what I want here too. What I don't want is some magic wall stopping my shots dead at a range a WW1 rifle could hit for no immediately apparent or intuitive reason. The fact that upgrading your clone somehow affects the ballistics of your ammunition is a whole other conversation. But start to finish the hard-limit on ARs is bad design.
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 37	Posted - 2012.11.07 22:47:00 - [5] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Hard cap of sniper is ~600m, skills can make this over 850m. The muzzle speeds are high enough many of the weapons would have no noticeable drop, max range sniper shoot at the top of head would hit bottom of head. call of duty is hitscan, halo is hitscan(halo 3 wasn't), team fortress 2 is hitscan. Gears of war and borderlands have projectiles with travel time. Boarderlands has a hard range limit. I understand battlefield uses around 8-9 times the drop a real bullet has, with dust muzzle speeds over double real life speeds, a realistic drop would not be noticeable. Minmatar projectile rifles using battlefield like physics would be nice. The plasma ar having travel time would be nice, maybe purple tracers so people know it's not a regular bullet. The hmg and smg are so close ranged they will hit max range in a frame or two, so hit scan just saves resources that are not needed. Maybe hitscan to optimal, pause and second hitscan after pause to max range for smg and hmg, still probably not worth cpu cycles. We don't need fps to drop when hmgs fire. Better explaining how mechanics work to new players would be a good thing. I thought this too. Hit-scan is no reason for or against hard-limits on weapons. Visually there is the challenge of showing plasma projectiles in flight but that can be worked around (plasma bullets, double the range on current rounds and make damage inverse-square relative to distance travelled or some other ratio).