Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
   |
Posted - 2012.11.08 19:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Forge Guns are the best answer to DROPSHIPS in the current build, because they can usually one-shot if you're on a similar level in terms of tech level and SP investment.
But against ground vehicles, Swarms are better. You don't need as long to get a lock, you can duck into cover as you're firing, you can curve shots to misdirect your target's return fire, and Assaults or even Scouts can carry them, allowing much greater mobility than a Heavy suit.
Even a Militia Swarm Launcher can deal visible damage to the toughest tanks. If you can keep your ammo supply up (Depot or Nanohive), a couple of decent Swarm Launchers can control a surprisingly wide area.
You are either new or have no idea of what you speak.
Gunlogi with a large missile turret and +20% damage mod on it's small and large missile turrets, plus bonuses from the ones on the guns for example. As soon as that missile turret sees you, you are toast. They can duck behind a mountain, pop out and fire off a volley of OHK missiles, and disappear in less time than it takes for you to even lock on, let alone for your swarms to reach them.
You cannot get close enough to counter the hiding behind mountains because the rest of their AR loaded team would have to be completely inept to not see you sneaking around the whole map looking for an optimal shot at a tank with nothing but a swarm launcher and a SMG or pistol, so that means you are constantly taken out by snipers, foot soldiers, the tank itself, and every runt in between who dares to try to use a different weapon because all you have is an SMG/pistol for defense.
So swarms are not the answer either.
And as for OHK a dropship with a forge gun, I myself have been able to make a Viper with over 3000 shields. Do you see very many forge guns that do 3500+ damage to take out it's armor and shields? I don't think so. And that's IF you can even hit the damn thing with it being able to flying out of range in less time than it takes for you to charge a shot.
Neither forge or swarms are the answer, they are merely fun toys that do well against weak (swarms) or incompetently driven/gunned (forge) vehicles.
The fact that orbital strikes don't hardly damage tanks and can't be locked onto dropships bugs me too, but that's another topic. |
Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 15:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Have u met a good shield tank. not mine. but a sagaris or well fit gunnlogi. Milita swarms. they laugh at those. Lol
When you're not up against cheaply-fitted tanks, you bring something that costs more than NO ISK AT ALL to fight them. Obviously. Also, that Sagaris had lost its shields already when I landed my finishing blow. Something called a "Forge Gun" - maybe you've heard of them? One of the turrets landed a kill on the guy before he could finish the job, but fortunately, Mr Militia Fit (I was actually LAV hunting at the time) was in the right place to get a lucky shot before the shields came back. u nvr mentioned forge guns all u said 3 milita swarms can kill a tank and i was just proving u wrong. btw this thread is why forge guns need to be cheaper. But none the less nice finish on tht sagaris Lol. i remember when i got the finishing blows on a gunnlogi with a toxin. :D I said they can kill a tank. And they can. I never said they can kill ANY tank. A well-fitted shield tanked Gunnlogi would be possible for 3 Militia Swarms to take down, but you'd need luck on your side, and some good covering fire from the rest of your team while you're doing it. I said that I've seen a couple of players (that's 2) take down multiple Gunnlogis in a single match using only starter AV fits. That's also true. They weren't well-fitted Gunnlogis, and they hadn't been shield tanked particularly well. They were still Gunnlogis, and we skill killed 3 of them with 0 cost to ourselves. I died twice, the other guy died 3 times. One death each to the tanks themselves, and a couple of AR or Sniper deaths while we were busy. If they had been taking the Militia Swarms easily, I'd have been bringing a better Swarm Launcher. I don't use Forge Guns this build, I don't have a Forge fitting at the moment, the guy I was running AV with in that match did, but didn't think it was necessary at the time. Garrett Blacknova wrote:Even a Militia Swarm Launcher can deal visible damage to the toughest tanks. That's the core point of the post where you started arguing against me, and it's still true. Best shield-tanked Sagaris I've seen will still feel a Militia Swarm - not as a major threat, but at least a noticeable one.
You are missing the over all point. This may work in corp battles where everyone in your team works together to open a path to the tank for you (if they are able to), but in general battles that will never happen. 3 militia swarms. That means you only have 1 squad mate left to clear a path for all 3 of you through all of the snipers and AR's so you can get a clear shot at the tank (since the blueberries couldn't care less you wanna kill the tank). And depending on the map, the tank can outmaneuver your weak swarms easily. Ever tried this trick around the north buildings in Line Harvest? Crates, walls, ceilings, and stupid swarms that fly right into stuff instead of heading straight to the target kind of stop your strategy in it's tracks even IF your one squad mate can clear a path. Manus peak? Swarms have flown into cliffs and rocks directly to my right on that map so many times that I'm starting to think the map is bugged. In fact, there are maybe 10 small areas collectively over every map available that would allow you to pull off such a thing without something going wrong. IF the tank is in such a place, IF you have someone to clear you a path, IF you have the ammo, IF you have 3 people with swarms, IF you are able to dodge every volley, IF you can somehow not have your swarms detouring into the face of a mountain on the way to the target, then yeah, you might have a chance.
ie, it's a broken system. |