DUST Search - EvE ISK Transfers 2.0?

All Channels

General Discussions

EvE ISK Transfers 2.0?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.06 18:53:00 - [1] - Quote There's this assumption that you'll definitely be able to transfer unlimited amounts of ISK at some point in the future, from EVE into Dust. And note it's always the one direction people are talking about, and that tells you all you need to know. In EVE, you can make hundreds of millions without breaking a sweat. Some ratting, some mining, some PI, whatever. No big deal. In Dust, how long would it take to make a similar amount? Long time. To make even 100 million in Dust, at ~100 - 150k ISK per game (if you're good and lose very little ISK) would require you to play hundreds of games. It would take a long, long time. In other words, if they were to open up transferring ISK they'd completely trivialize the ISK-related portion of the game for any EVE players, or anyone with an established EVE-playing friend, or anyone who can otherwise get an EVE connection. Those people will never have to worry about ISK ever again, while the people with no EVE connection will continue to value ISK a lot, and have to be careful about dying, and so on. So, the question, really, is why they would ever want to allow ISK transfers in the first place. Other than the notion that such a thing might be possible in the New Eden setting, what purpose would it serve other than to do a great deal of harm to Dust as a game? Considering that they've billed Dust as a game about being a mercenary, and everything having value, and every death mattering because you value your equipment, what sense would it make to allow a certain portion of the playerbase to acquire so much ISK that ISK basically becomes unimportant to them? Unless CCP does a major overhaul of the ISK generation in Dust, and the price of all items, to somehow, magically, make Dust players earn the same as EVE players given the same amount of effort spent and the same time committed, I can't see why they'd ever just open the games to one-another monetarily. It serves no purpose and would do quite a lot of harm to Dust.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.06 19:14:00 - [2] - Quote More than that probably. A game in Dust takes 10 - 15 minutes or so, right? So 4 - 6 games an hour, making probably around 100k ISK profit per game in a good result. So let's say a Dust player makes 500k ISK an hour. That isn't anything close to what a you can make in an hour in EVE. The tax would have to be pretty ludicrously high, indeed. But, yeah, I think a tax is probably the answer. At any rate, simply being able to transfer ISK from EVE to Dust on a 1:1 basis should never be allowed.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.06 21:12:00 - [3] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I think someone needs to interject while several people bring this point up, and mention that we're only really seeing the public matchmaking system's battles, which is the kind of battle you'll be fighting in HighSec. These are MEANT to be the chump-change battles. I'm not sure what your point is. Quote: Anyone in EVE want to confirm how easy it is to make a profit living in HighSec? Can you comfortably outstrip 500k ISK per hour there? If so, we might need tweaking on our DUST contract profits (and corresponding shifts in the cost of gear). If not, seems like this is probably working as intended. A new EVE player doing tutorial missions will make more than 500k ISK per hour. Any competent miner/ratter will make many millions of ISK per hour. Many EVE players have billions essentially just lying around. VK deathslaer wrote: This sounds like a person scared of falling behind. there is aurum for a reason, why not spend $20 a month and get your aurum equipment. they presented side grades for a reason so that isk generation can be canceled out. However it may not completely cancel out, but you gain loot, you can do co-op stuff to make your isk, and your supposed to make a corp/join to get better contracts. Playing the game the way its intended is always a plus. New eden has darwin written all over it. I've been playing EVE for a while. If they opened up ISK transfers I'd never have to worry about the cost of things in Dust again. Same goes for a lot of Dust players. I'm not "scared of falling behind", as you so insightfully put it despite not having a clue what you're talking about. I just wouldn't want to see Dust killed because EVE players like myself can roll out in proto suits without a care about dying, or throw unlimited, top-tier tanks/dropships at people and if we die it's chump change we don't care about. And whatever you think New Eden has written over it, unless CCP's goal is to make a game people don't want to play, they should probably make Dust a game that isn't terrible for new players to get into.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.06 21:53:00 - [4] - Quote Bonchu Blunt Rifle wrote: Generally I would support a fully open economy between EVE/Dust. Having played EVE for several years now I am always amazed at the EVE market's ability to self correct. I don't think that adding Dust 514 to the mix would be as scary as people think. I also think that if Dust ever does reach the kind of end game seen in EVE then isk will be a very much secondary factor. Isk very rarely (if ever) is the determining factor in deciding major conflicts. Still as it stands now it looks to me like there need to be more isk faucets in Dust and Dust mercenaries need a way to be able to monetize their services better if linking the two economies was to work. EVE's ability to self-correct isn't a part of it. The problem is that if they opened it up, Dust would instantly be flooded by many billions of EVE spacebux and all the people so endowed would never have to worry about money again, because Dust's market pricing is fixed. Nobody would be moving money from Dust to EVE. They'd be moving their spare change from EVE to buy fleets of tanks and hundreds of fittings of prototype gear in Dust. There is no upside to this move. There is no incentive for them to allow unrestricted movement of ISK. Maybe, one day, years from now, when Dust has a player-driven economy like EVE's, and Dust earnings are made on par with EVE earnings, maybe then they could join the two and they'd merge without one side being obliterated by the other. But, until then, there is zero reason to do it beyond "well they're both in the same fictional setting and they both use ISK, so...".
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.06 21:58:00 - [5] - Quote And el oh el at people who think the non-EVE players without access to easy millions would be able to afford anything even if the market were somehow able to shift to accommodate the many new wealthy Dust characters.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.06 22:48:00 - [6] - Quote Jariel Manton wrote: You can be wealthy too, just like the EVE players spend time making their isk you can spend time doing PVE in Dust. We have no idea what they're going to wind up doing for PvE.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.07 13:02:00 - [7] - Quote People not worrying about money would be a flaw in the game. The items we have right now will hopefully be considered sub-standard by the time actual corporate warfare rolls around. There should be items which cost extravagant amounts of ISK, and which are rare and valuable even if you're being bankrolled by a wealthy EVE establishment. There need to be capital-equivalents of weapons and dropsuits. So I don't see unlimited money as an inevitability. It's only what happens if something is done poorly on CCP's part. Although... one thing I'm wondering is, what if in Dust the kept a single market and didn't break it down into regional markets like in EVE. And what if the ISK you earned doing Instant Battle games were related to the market price of items? Then, if you opened up the markets entirely and made everything player-created except for BPOs, items becoming much more expensive wouldn't necessarily make them prohibitive to non-EVE-connected players, as the items would similarly give people a bigger ISK bounty when they kill the person wearing them in a match. I don't know. Economics isn't something I have any formal education in, but I have to wonder if making the ISK generated flexible and proportional to the cost of items on the (one, singular) market might not be a way to balance it all out.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:26:00 - [8] - Quote Mister Hunt wrote: Well, a few things that I have noticed that I felt I would comment on. First, once the Dust market goes to market driven economics instead of the seeded items we have now, you will see prices on everything adjust themselves. I also believe that the amount of ISK that we are earning right now is not indicative of what we will see in the live version of the game. I have yet to see a dev post here on these forums that stated that this is it. You don't have any way of knowing how ISK earning will change into release, right? You're just guessing? It's also important to note that a small percentage of people will be actively involved in the nullsec stuff. The market won't be entirely dictated by those income levels (assuming they are significantly higher). Quote: There also seems to be an idea floating around that people would actually want to throw tons of money towards Dust. I didn't say ISK, I said money. You see, ISK does in fact have real world value. It is currently about $15 U.S. for every 500 million ISK, give or take based on market considerations. So for someone to throw his dust corp "a couple bil", or even trillions like some have claimed, is ludicrous. Enough to cover corp battle rewards? Ya, they will swing for that, but letting some idiot go out and get blown up in Proto Suits match after match? Ya, no corp in their right mind would try to replace stuff that is designed to poof. I wouldn't have any problem taking out my miner for an hour or two to scrouge up some millions to bankroll my Dust character for a month or whatever. It really isn't hard to make way more money with an EVE character than your Dust character would see in months.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.08 00:28:00 - [9] - Quote That entire post you carved that bit out of was about how you can't just open the flood gates on it. The only assumption I was making in that post was the assumption of what would happen if nothing changed except that people became able to transfer ISK between EVE and Dust on an unrestricted, 1:1 basis. Clearly, as I suggested, it would require some changes to the way things work before they open up the two economies to one another. And as I explained in another post further down in this thread, just a few above the one you made there, it's possible that making the payouts of Instant Battle games reflect the (player-driven) market price of the suits/modules/etc players were using could be a part of a solution.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.08 02:33:00 - [10] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: 1st Again, I expect the pays to get higher for grinding ArenaPVP/PVE 2nd remember the payouts are in relation to what the opposing team lost. More higher priced items - more gain 3rd isk IS going to flow - imagine a friendly corp make a veeeery easy contract, perhaps vs another friendly corp. And offering 300 B isk for that. The contract is, of course, available to friendly dust corps (that has been confirmed in order to prevent hostile corps accepting YOUR defence contract Well, you're the one making the assumptions then, not I. I have no idea what CCP's mind is on earnings. I don't know that they'd let the beta run this long with prices and ISK payouts being as they are if they intend on abruptly jumping up the amount people get from "arena PvP" (whatever that is) and PvE (whatever that'll involve). You get paid based on the quality of the items the person you killed was wearing, as I understanding it. So taking down a starter character gets you less than taking down someone in proto. That's not enough to accommodate a player market, though. What I speculated on is the actual market prices of specific items, rather than just qualities. That might be a part of moving forward with this whole thing, as otherwise the prices will vary (and definitely rise) based on EVE money influx, while the earnings of non-EVE-connected Dust players will remain static. We don't know how contracts will work, as well. You're assuming that the EVE corp just writes a number down and that's what the Dust corp gets. Not necessarily the case. It could very well be that EVE players buy a contract for X amount, and the payout is fixed at Y amount, with Y being considerably less than X. Clearly this would be a very obvious loophole in the entire issue of ISK transfer, and not something they'd allow to pass muster if their intent were to keep ISK transfer restricted.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.