DUST Search - Jumppacks (Note: not jetpacks)

Daedalus Stray wrote:

Kamiya Musume wrote:

Daedalus Stray wrote:

I would think that any kind of jet or jump pack would totally change the way Dust was played. I also think that the change would be very unwelcome. It is annoying enough when a scout starts jumping like a bunny rabbit on crack and the currently awful frame rates make it impossible to hit them with more than a few shots.

The terrain is rough for a reason and the reason is to impede movement. Without terrain being a factor Dust would become some arcade style shooter with hard core mmo style character leveling. That combination would make no sense and would alienate many people who enjoy competitive shooters that have hints of tactical play.

As far as I know the general outcome of Dust will be a team favoring, tactical, first person shooter, mmo. With the ability to move MCC's and call in installations, terrain will become a very important factor in the positioning of those assets. Jump and Jet packs would ruin any advantage given from a tactician who knows how to use terrain and amplify any disadvantage brought by a leader who doesn't know how to use terrain. All in all I think they would make for a very unfairly advantageous choice in module to the point where every one would need one to survive.

Sorry, but it's just not sensible to argue against a feature request based solely on gameplay issues...

We should all try to be more mindful of the setting of Dust; many MANY years in the future.
I see no reason to restrict the technology that would/should be available to Mercs, the only issue is that there are balanced Risk/Reward mechanics in place.
The main reason (as I see it) that everyone currently QQ's about Dropships being OP is the fact that there is no balanced Risk/Reward mechanism in place; fit missiles to a DS and dominate the battlefield without any risk at all, Swarms can't hit (no bad thing) and one shotting a DS with a forge gun is nigh on impossible.

For every advantage a piece of equipment gives a merc there needs to be a drawback, or a way to counter the advantage.

I'm all for jump-packs or jet-packs, but I have no desire to play Unreal Tournament anymore, therefore limit or otherwise control the behaviour of jump/jet-packs with cooldowns or shield drains or some other mechanism.

I know its a universe ahead of our own but that does not make fantastical options such as a jet pack or a jump pack viable. I know very well that they could be made and work efficiently that its not the issue. The issue is that in war there is a limit to what is deployable on the battlefield. Why? Because everything you deploy has a cost. If that cost outweighs the benefits then there is no reason to deploy it. This would be the case with something like a jet or jump pack.

I know that goes against my earlier argument being that they would offer an uncompromisable advantage. However in reality it is fairly easy to hit a man sized target as it moves through open air, but in a game it is not, it is very difficult. So from a reality perspective a jet or jump pack may offer mobility but makes you a huge target. In a game a jet or jump pack offers the ability to dismiss all obstacles in your path and makes you invincible. In reality there would be no reason to field such a device because it will just get you killed. In a game it is very, very annoying, unfair, and game ruining because a jet or jump pack is the ultimate troll device.

Imagine with me here. You are a COD player form the age of COD 4: modern warfare and you are complaining that someone just shot you with the fabled noob toob and you are pissed. Then seemingly out of nowhere someone comes flying down from the heavens to bestow upon you many blessings(bullets) in the general area of your upper torso and head. Now you are so pissed that you just can't stand it and don't want to play this game ever again. Soon there would be no online community to speak of because they were all touched one too many times by flying bullet dispensing angels.


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Kamiya Musume Suffer Inc. 63	Posted - 2012.11.06 11:18:00 - [1] - Quote Daedalus Stray wrote: I would think that any kind of jet or jump pack would totally change the way Dust was played. I also think that the change would be very unwelcome. It is annoying enough when a scout starts jumping like a bunny rabbit on crack and the currently awful frame rates make it impossible to hit them with more than a few shots. The terrain is rough for a reason and the reason is to impede movement. Without terrain being a factor Dust would become some arcade style shooter with hard core mmo style character leveling. That combination would make no sense and would alienate many people who enjoy competitive shooters that have hints of tactical play. As far as I know the general outcome of Dust will be a team favoring, tactical, first person shooter, mmo. With the ability to move MCC's and call in installations, terrain will become a very important factor in the positioning of those assets. Jump and Jet packs would ruin any advantage given from a tactician who knows how to use terrain and amplify any disadvantage brought by a leader who doesn't know how to use terrain. All in all I think they would make for a very unfairly advantageous choice in module to the point where every one would need one to survive. Sorry, but it's just not sensible to argue against a feature request based solely on gameplay issues... We should all try to be more mindful of the setting of Dust; many MANY years in the future. I see no reason to restrict the technology that would/should be available to Mercs, the only issue is that there are balanced Risk/Reward mechanics in place. The main reason (as I see it) that everyone currently QQ's about Dropships being OP is the fact that there is no balanced Risk/Reward mechanism in place; fit missiles to a DS and dominate the battlefield without any risk at all, Swarms can't hit (no bad thing) and one shotting a DS with a forge gun is nigh on impossible. For every advantage a piece of equipment gives a merc there needs to be a drawback, or a way to counter the advantage. I'm all for jump-packs or jet-packs, but I have no desire to play Unreal Tournament anymore, therefore limit or otherwise control the behaviour of jump/jet-packs with cooldowns or shield drains or some other mechanism.
Kamiya Musume Suffer Inc. 63	Posted - 2012.11.06 12:28:00 - [2] - Quote Daedalus Stray wrote: Kamiya Musume wrote: Daedalus Stray wrote: I would think that any kind of jet or jump pack would totally change the way Dust was played. I also think that the change would be very unwelcome. It is annoying enough when a scout starts jumping like a bunny rabbit on crack and the currently awful frame rates make it impossible to hit them with more than a few shots. The terrain is rough for a reason and the reason is to impede movement. Without terrain being a factor Dust would become some arcade style shooter with hard core mmo style character leveling. That combination would make no sense and would alienate many people who enjoy competitive shooters that have hints of tactical play. As far as I know the general outcome of Dust will be a team favoring, tactical, first person shooter, mmo. With the ability to move MCC's and call in installations, terrain will become a very important factor in the positioning of those assets. Jump and Jet packs would ruin any advantage given from a tactician who knows how to use terrain and amplify any disadvantage brought by a leader who doesn't know how to use terrain. All in all I think they would make for a very unfairly advantageous choice in module to the point where every one would need one to survive. Sorry, but it's just not sensible to argue against a feature request based solely on gameplay issues... We should all try to be more mindful of the setting of Dust; many MANY years in the future. I see no reason to restrict the technology that would/should be available to Mercs, the only issue is that there are balanced Risk/Reward mechanics in place. The main reason (as I see it) that everyone currently QQ's about Dropships being OP is the fact that there is no balanced Risk/Reward mechanism in place; fit missiles to a DS and dominate the battlefield without any risk at all, Swarms can't hit (no bad thing) and one shotting a DS with a forge gun is nigh on impossible. For every advantage a piece of equipment gives a merc there needs to be a drawback, or a way to counter the advantage. I'm all for jump-packs or jet-packs, but I have no desire to play Unreal Tournament anymore, therefore limit or otherwise control the behaviour of jump/jet-packs with cooldowns or shield drains or some other mechanism. I know its a universe ahead of our own but that does not make fantastical options such as a jet pack or a jump pack viable. I know very well that they could be made and work efficiently that its not the issue. The issue is that in war there is a limit to what is deployable on the battlefield. Why? Because everything you deploy has a cost. If that cost outweighs the benefits then there is no reason to deploy it. This would be the case with something like a jet or jump pack. I know that goes against my earlier argument being that they would offer an uncompromisable advantage. However in reality it is fairly easy to hit a man sized target as it moves through open air, but in a game it is not, it is very difficult. So from a reality perspective a jet or jump pack may offer mobility but makes you a huge target. In a game a jet or jump pack offers the ability to dismiss all obstacles in your path and makes you invincible. In reality there would be no reason to field such a device because it will just get you killed. In a game it is very, very annoying, unfair, and game ruining because a jet or jump pack is the ultimate troll device. Imagine with me here. You are a COD player form the age of COD 4: modern warfare and you are complaining that someone just shot you with the fabled noob toob and you are pissed. Then seemingly out of nowhere someone comes flying down from the heavens to bestow upon you many blessings(bullets) in the general area of your upper torso and head. Now you are so pissed that you just can't stand it and don't want to play this game ever again. Soon there would be no online community to speak of because they were all touched one too many times by flying bullet dispensing angels. I hear you, but I disagree entirely. Cost is never an issue on the battlefield, armies will field whatever ridiculous weaponry they think gives them the upper hand.... do I need to give examples? How about Aircraft Carriers.... do you have any idea how much those things cost? BILLIONS OF DOLLARS! sorry, but the cost argument never stacks up where war is concerned. And I believe you missed my most simple point: BALANCE. You're right, I have no desire to get pwnd by flying bullet factories, that's why there has to be balance, I'm not against jump/jet-packs, I'm against any piece of equipment that is not properly balanced and has no Risk/Reward mechanism associated with it. Please try to understand that my argument is not "This is OP, or this piece of equipment is a bad idea" - there are no bad ideas, only poorly implemented ones. It is completely irrational to argue against a specific piece of equipment simply because you believe it will "change the gameplay to something you don't like" Personally, I'd like to see the currently implemented Power Grid get an overhaul - right now all it does is limit the fitting. If the PG did what it says on the tin then there should be modules/weapons/equipment that provide a drain on the PG DURING THE BATTLE. This is another mechanism for balancing equipment; don't want a module to be overused? make it drain the Suit's/Vehicle's PG thus hampering the operation of other modules. Don't want to turn Dust into Unreal Tournament? Neither do I actually, so make Jump/Jet-packs drain PG or even shields. Things have moved on a lot since the days of UT, we have to think smarter about how we argue for requests, what Dust needs is a similarly complex and DEEP system to EVE, which I am sure CCP has already mapped out, but it doesn't help by just saying "Don't like it! Nerf it! Don't implement this!"