DUST Search - Jumppacks (Note: not jetpacks)

Daedalus Stray wrote:

Kamiya Musume wrote:

Daedalus Stray wrote:

I would think that any kind of jet or jump pack would totally change the way Dust was played. I also think that the change would be very unwelcome. It is annoying enough when a scout starts jumping like a bunny rabbit on crack and the currently awful frame rates make it impossible to hit them with more than a few shots.

The terrain is rough for a reason and the reason is to impede movement. Without terrain being a factor Dust would become some arcade style shooter with hard core mmo style character leveling. That combination would make no sense and would alienate many people who enjoy competitive shooters that have hints of tactical play.

As far as I know the general outcome of Dust will be a team favoring, tactical, first person shooter, mmo. With the ability to move MCC's and call in installations, terrain will become a very important factor in the positioning of those assets. Jump and Jet packs would ruin any advantage given from a tactician who knows how to use terrain and amplify any disadvantage brought by a leader who doesn't know how to use terrain. All in all I think they would make for a very unfairly advantageous choice in module to the point where every one would need one to survive.

Sorry, but it's just not sensible to argue against a feature request based solely on gameplay issues...

We should all try to be more mindful of the setting of Dust; many MANY years in the future.
I see no reason to restrict the technology that would/should be available to Mercs, the only issue is that there are balanced Risk/Reward mechanics in place.
The main reason (as I see it) that everyone currently QQ's about Dropships being OP is the fact that there is no balanced Risk/Reward mechanism in place; fit missiles to a DS and dominate the battlefield without any risk at all, Swarms can't hit (no bad thing) and one shotting a DS with a forge gun is nigh on impossible.

For every advantage a piece of equipment gives a merc there needs to be a drawback, or a way to counter the advantage.

I'm all for jump-packs or jet-packs, but I have no desire to play Unreal Tournament anymore, therefore limit or otherwise control the behaviour of jump/jet-packs with cooldowns or shield drains or some other mechanism.

I know its a universe ahead of our own but that does not make fantastical options such as a jet pack or a jump pack viable. I know very well that they could be made and work efficiently that its not the issue. The issue is that in war there is a limit to what is deployable on the battlefield. Why? Because everything you deploy has a cost. If that cost outweighs the benefits then there is no reason to deploy it. This would be the case with something like a jet or jump pack.

I know that goes against my earlier argument being that they would offer an uncompromisable advantage. However in reality it is fairly easy to hit a man sized target as it moves through open air, but in a game it is not, it is very difficult. So from a reality perspective a jet or jump pack may offer mobility but makes you a huge target. In a game a jet or jump pack offers the ability to dismiss all obstacles in your path and makes you invincible. In reality there would be no reason to field such a device because it will just get you killed. In a game it is very, very annoying, unfair, and game ruining because a jet or jump pack is the ultimate troll device.

Imagine with me here. You are a COD player form the age of COD 4: modern warfare and you are complaining that someone just shot you with the fabled noob toob and you are pissed. Then seemingly out of nowhere someone comes flying down from the heavens to bestow upon you many blessings(bullets) in the general area of your upper torso and head. Now you are so pissed that you just can't stand it and don't want to play this game ever again. Soon there would be no online community to speak of because they were all touched one too many times by flying bullet dispensing angels.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.05 03:27:00 - [1] - Quote Because mountain slopes and barriers can be a real pain to get around when you urgently need to get someplace quick, like a downed teammate, enemy equipment or just to get away from the lunatic with the HMG. Not thinking CCP should rip off Tribes and make jetpacks that let players glide around at high speeds everywhere. Just something that boosts a player's jump height and lands him safely. Players with the module would have a jetpack model on their backs that clips through the player model, so it wouldn't have to match any specific dropsuit. The type of suit would probably effect the height bonus though. As for drawbacks, it takes up an important slot and would cost a good deal of CPU/PG. Also if you're jumping a lot, you'd be a target for good snipers mid-arc where you move the slowest.
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 22	Posted - 2012.11.05 04:42:00 - [2] - Quote You should rather be able to upgrade your jumps and have mods for jumping rather than running for those players but at high pg/cpu to discourage halo jumping
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 432	Posted - 2012.11.05 04:56:00 - [3] - Quote would you be able to control your jump after boost? I hope not because it would go against the laws of physics. Like in Halo! In Halo you can magically reverse direction mid jump.
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.05 05:07:00 - [4] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: would you be able to control your jump after boost? I hope not because it would go against the laws of physics. Like in Halo! In Halo you can magically reverse direction mid jump. Corrective boosters maybe. I imagine the pack would need them to make sure the users doesn't do a somersault because he's holding a heavy weapon.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.11.05 05:35:00 - [5] - Quote I would prefer a jetpack with the right limitations, but this is good also.
I-Shayz-I ZionTCD Legacy Rising 172	Posted - 2012.11.05 05:51:00 - [6] - Quote This post reminds me of how similar this game is to star wars battlefront. You know, like the dark trooper that has a jump pack.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 385	Posted - 2012.11.05 06:02:00 - [7] - Quote I wonder what ship i should take to fight this idea? Navy issue vexor? Federation navy comet? Brutix? I got it, myrmidon! What exactly is the point of this when we have dropships and ladders on every building?
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.05 06:18:00 - [8] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: I wonder what ship i should take to fight this idea? Navy issue vexor? Federation navy comet? Brutix? I got it, myrmidon! What exactly is the point of this when we have dropships and ladders on every building? Dropships and ladders take time to get there. Good enough for most but there will be roles that need to get there faster. Like logi who need to revive teammates and light infantry who want to jump a wall to get to a point faster. Also not all buildings have ladders and dropships aren't always an option so being able to jump up there would be a good option for snipers.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 385	Posted - 2012.11.05 06:21:00 - [9] - Quote High fitting reqs do not answer my question
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.05 06:32:00 - [10] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: High fitting reqs do not answer my question Yeah sorry, I misread. I edited my post.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.11.05 07:02:00 - [11] - Quote Dropships cost at least 150k, no one will spend that much money just to get over a slope or barrier. Slopes and barriers don't have ladders installed in them. Dropships are for transporting lots of people.
angelarch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 93	Posted - 2012.11.05 10:24:00 - [12] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: ... What exactly is the point of this when we have dropships and ladders on every building? atm heavy suits can't jump over railings. not even low barriers like a pipe on the ground. . . there are areas of the map a heavy is almost trapped because they can't get out. I'd gladly have any jump enhancement just to be able to move around in a normal fashion like other suits.
SoulRipper Cybran Wraith Shadow Guards 8	Posted - 2012.11.05 18:58:00 - [13] - Quote Something that allows you to do a 5-10 ft jump would be usefull for scouts and logi, like a double jump to get over some obstacles.
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 126	Posted - 2012.11.05 19:29:00 - [14] - Quote SoulRipper Cybran wrote: Something that allows you to do a 5-10 ft jump would be usefull for scouts and logi, like a double jump to get over some obstacles. Dust mercs seem to have a 5 foot at LEAST jump as assult , we can seem to jump to the shoulders of another person with some saying that they seen people clear over the head of others, 5 foot is guess and is likly a underestimation if the rumers are true that Mercs are 7 foot tall
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.11.06 07:32:00 - [15] - Quote It doesn't violate physics to change direction mid-air with a jump pack, halo jumps do as they don't seam to have any form of thrusters. A item that took a high slot and allowed halo type jumps would be okay, balance could be done by slowing rate of fall. So the descending person made a easier target, but would never take falling damage. This seems like it would be a fair trade for increased jump and direction adjustments. Could be 100% increase in jump height at standard, 125% at adv, and 150% at proto. Skils passive bonus could lower the fitting requirement. Fitting cost should be about the same for a assault suit as a afterburner on a dropship.
Daedalus Stray Talos Incorporated 22	Posted - 2012.11.06 10:57:00 - [16] - Quote I would think that any kind of jet or jump pack would totally change the way Dust was played. I also think that the change would be very unwelcome. It is annoying enough when a scout starts jumping like a bunny rabbit on crack and the currently awful frame rates make it impossible to hit them with more than a few shots. The terrain is rough for a reason and the reason is to impede movement. Without terrain being a factor Dust would become some arcade style shooter with hard core mmo style character leveling. That combination would make no sense and would alienate many people who enjoy competitive shooters that have hints of tactical play. As far as I know the general outcome of Dust will be a team favoring, tactical, first person shooter, mmo. With the ability to move MCC's and call in installations, terrain will become a very important factor in the positioning of those assets. Jump and Jet packs would ruin any advantage given from a tactician who knows how to use terrain and amplify any disadvantage brought by a leader who doesn't know how to use terrain. All in all I think they would make for a very unfairly advantageous choice in module to the point where every one would need one to survive.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.11.06 11:14:00 - [17] - Quote Part of reason I suggested slowed fall is to prevent bunny hopping with it. Perhaps if jump pack prevented firing weapon while jumping, that would eliminate any use in cqc. Jet packs would have the effect of ruining the limits from terrain to maneuver. The jump pack lets the edge of terrain be modified at cost of damage/tank. Ladders would still be needed as the jump pack wouldn't let you get onto most of the structures without them, at least not with the max 150% jump height I suggested. A jump pack shouldn't be so good it seems mandatory, it should be a special purpose item, like the dampners/code breakers/scanner now. If it gets really common it probably needs it's stats lowered. A trade off of mobility, tank(defense), gank(firepower), stealth is needed in fits.
Kamiya Musume Suffer Inc. 63	Posted - 2012.11.06 11:18:00 - [18] - Quote Daedalus Stray wrote: I would think that any kind of jet or jump pack would totally change the way Dust was played. I also think that the change would be very unwelcome. It is annoying enough when a scout starts jumping like a bunny rabbit on crack and the currently awful frame rates make it impossible to hit them with more than a few shots. The terrain is rough for a reason and the reason is to impede movement. Without terrain being a factor Dust would become some arcade style shooter with hard core mmo style character leveling. That combination would make no sense and would alienate many people who enjoy competitive shooters that have hints of tactical play. As far as I know the general outcome of Dust will be a team favoring, tactical, first person shooter, mmo. With the ability to move MCC's and call in installations, terrain will become a very important factor in the positioning of those assets. Jump and Jet packs would ruin any advantage given from a tactician who knows how to use terrain and amplify any disadvantage brought by a leader who doesn't know how to use terrain. All in all I think they would make for a very unfairly advantageous choice in module to the point where every one would need one to survive. Sorry, but it's just not sensible to argue against a feature request based solely on gameplay issues... We should all try to be more mindful of the setting of Dust; many MANY years in the future. I see no reason to restrict the technology that would/should be available to Mercs, the only issue is that there are balanced Risk/Reward mechanics in place. The main reason (as I see it) that everyone currently QQ's about Dropships being OP is the fact that there is no balanced Risk/Reward mechanism in place; fit missiles to a DS and dominate the battlefield without any risk at all, Swarms can't hit (no bad thing) and one shotting a DS with a forge gun is nigh on impossible. For every advantage a piece of equipment gives a merc there needs to be a drawback, or a way to counter the advantage. I'm all for jump-packs or jet-packs, but I have no desire to play Unreal Tournament anymore, therefore limit or otherwise control the behaviour of jump/jet-packs with cooldowns or shield drains or some other mechanism.
Daedalus Stray Talos Incorporated 22	Posted - 2012.11.06 11:52:00 - [19] - Quote Kamiya Musume wrote: Daedalus Stray wrote: I would think that any kind of jet or jump pack would totally change the way Dust was played. I also think that the change would be very unwelcome. It is annoying enough when a scout starts jumping like a bunny rabbit on crack and the currently awful frame rates make it impossible to hit them with more than a few shots. The terrain is rough for a reason and the reason is to impede movement. Without terrain being a factor Dust would become some arcade style shooter with hard core mmo style character leveling. That combination would make no sense and would alienate many people who enjoy competitive shooters that have hints of tactical play. As far as I know the general outcome of Dust will be a team favoring, tactical, first person shooter, mmo. With the ability to move MCC's and call in installations, terrain will become a very important factor in the positioning of those assets. Jump and Jet packs would ruin any advantage given from a tactician who knows how to use terrain and amplify any disadvantage brought by a leader who doesn't know how to use terrain. All in all I think they would make for a very unfairly advantageous choice in module to the point where every one would need one to survive. Sorry, but it's just not sensible to argue against a feature request based solely on gameplay issues... We should all try to be more mindful of the setting of Dust; many MANY years in the future. I see no reason to restrict the technology that would/should be available to Mercs, the only issue is that there are balanced Risk/Reward mechanics in place. The main reason (as I see it) that everyone currently QQ's about Dropships being OP is the fact that there is no balanced Risk/Reward mechanism in place; fit missiles to a DS and dominate the battlefield without any risk at all, Swarms can't hit (no bad thing) and one shotting a DS with a forge gun is nigh on impossible. For every advantage a piece of equipment gives a merc there needs to be a drawback, or a way to counter the advantage. I'm all for jump-packs or jet-packs, but I have no desire to play Unreal Tournament anymore, therefore limit or otherwise control the behaviour of jump/jet-packs with cooldowns or shield drains or some other mechanism. I know its a universe ahead of our own but that does not make fantastical options such as a jet pack or a jump pack viable. I know very well that they could be made and work efficiently that its not the issue. The issue is that in war there is a limit to what is deployable on the battlefield. Why? Because everything you deploy has a cost. If that cost outweighs the benefits then there is no reason to deploy it. This would be the case with something like a jet or jump pack. I know that goes against my earlier argument being that they would offer an uncompromisable advantage. However in reality it is fairly easy to hit a man sized target as it moves through open air, but in a game it is not, it is very difficult. So from a reality perspective a jet or jump pack may offer mobility but makes you a huge target. In a game a jet or jump pack offers the ability to dismiss all obstacles in your path and makes you invincible. In reality there would be no reason to field such a device because it will just get you killed. In a game it is very, very annoying, unfair, and game ruining because a jet or jump pack is the ultimate troll device. Imagine with me. You are a COD player form the age of COD 4: modern warfare and you are complaining that someone just shot you with the fabled noob toob and you are pissed. Then seemingly out of nowhere someone comes flying down from the heavens to bestow upon you many blessings(bullets) in the general area of your upper torso and head. Now you are so pissed that you just can't stand it and don't want to play this game ever again. Soon there would be no online community to speak of because they were all touched one too many times by flying bullet dispensing angels.
Kamiya Musume Suffer Inc. 63	Posted - 2012.11.06 12:28:00 - [20] - Quote Daedalus Stray wrote: Kamiya Musume wrote: Daedalus Stray wrote: I would think that any kind of jet or jump pack would totally change the way Dust was played. I also think that the change would be very unwelcome. It is annoying enough when a scout starts jumping like a bunny rabbit on crack and the currently awful frame rates make it impossible to hit them with more than a few shots. The terrain is rough for a reason and the reason is to impede movement. Without terrain being a factor Dust would become some arcade style shooter with hard core mmo style character leveling. That combination would make no sense and would alienate many people who enjoy competitive shooters that have hints of tactical play. As far as I know the general outcome of Dust will be a team favoring, tactical, first person shooter, mmo. With the ability to move MCC's and call in installations, terrain will become a very important factor in the positioning of those assets. Jump and Jet packs would ruin any advantage given from a tactician who knows how to use terrain and amplify any disadvantage brought by a leader who doesn't know how to use terrain. All in all I think they would make for a very unfairly advantageous choice in module to the point where every one would need one to survive. Sorry, but it's just not sensible to argue against a feature request based solely on gameplay issues... We should all try to be more mindful of the setting of Dust; many MANY years in the future. I see no reason to restrict the technology that would/should be available to Mercs, the only issue is that there are balanced Risk/Reward mechanics in place. The main reason (as I see it) that everyone currently QQ's about Dropships being OP is the fact that there is no balanced Risk/Reward mechanism in place; fit missiles to a DS and dominate the battlefield without any risk at all, Swarms can't hit (no bad thing) and one shotting a DS with a forge gun is nigh on impossible. For every advantage a piece of equipment gives a merc there needs to be a drawback, or a way to counter the advantage. I'm all for jump-packs or jet-packs, but I have no desire to play Unreal Tournament anymore, therefore limit or otherwise control the behaviour of jump/jet-packs with cooldowns or shield drains or some other mechanism. I know its a universe ahead of our own but that does not make fantastical options such as a jet pack or a jump pack viable. I know very well that they could be made and work efficiently that its not the issue. The issue is that in war there is a limit to what is deployable on the battlefield. Why? Because everything you deploy has a cost. If that cost outweighs the benefits then there is no reason to deploy it. This would be the case with something like a jet or jump pack. I know that goes against my earlier argument being that they would offer an uncompromisable advantage. However in reality it is fairly easy to hit a man sized target as it moves through open air, but in a game it is not, it is very difficult. So from a reality perspective a jet or jump pack may offer mobility but makes you a huge target. In a game a jet or jump pack offers the ability to dismiss all obstacles in your path and makes you invincible. In reality there would be no reason to field such a device because it will just get you killed. In a game it is very, very annoying, unfair, and game ruining because a jet or jump pack is the ultimate troll device. Imagine with me here. You are a COD player form the age of COD 4: modern warfare and you are complaining that someone just shot you with the fabled noob toob and you are pissed. Then seemingly out of nowhere someone comes flying down from the heavens to bestow upon you many blessings(bullets) in the general area of your upper torso and head. Now you are so pissed that you just can't stand it and don't want to play this game ever again. Soon there would be no online community to speak of because they were all touched one too many times by flying bullet dispensing angels. I hear you, but I disagree entirely. Cost is never an issue on the battlefield, armies will field whatever ridiculous weaponry they think gives them the upper hand.... do I need to give examples? How about Aircraft Carriers.... do you have any idea how much those things cost? BILLIONS OF DOLLARS! sorry, but the cost argument never stacks up where war is concerned. And I believe you missed my most simple point: BALANCE. You're right, I have no desire to get pwnd by flying bullet factories, that's why there has to be balance, I'm not against jump/jet-packs, I'm against any piece of equipment that is not properly balanced and has no Risk/Reward mechanism associated with it. Please try to understand that my argument is not "This is OP, or this piece of equipment is a bad idea" - there are no bad ideas, only poorly implemented ones. It is completely irrational to argue against a specific piece of equipment simply because you believe it will "change the gameplay to something you don't like" Personally, I'd like to see the currently implemented Power Grid get an overhaul - right now all it does is limit the fitting. If the PG did what it says on the tin then there should be modules/weapons/equipment that provide a drain on the PG DURING THE BATTLE. This is another mechanism for balancing equipment; don't want a module to be overused? make it drain the Suit's/Vehicle's PG thus hampering the operation of other modules. Don't want to turn Dust into Unreal Tournament? Neither do I actually, so make Jump/Jet-packs drain PG or even shields. Things have moved on a lot since the days of UT, we have to think smarter about how we argue for requests, what Dust needs is a similarly complex and DEEP system to EVE, which I am sure CCP has already mapped out, but it doesn't help by just saying "Don't like it! Nerf it! Don't implement this!"



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