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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 23:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
So it seems that Dust isn't really going to be a game about balancing things out for the most part,but I think that it's a must for the sake of keeping the game fun,and not just making it seem like a second(or first for some people) job.
I would propose that one of the things that can be done to balance out vehicle usage is to make it where calling in vehicles has to be earned with warpoints.
So a match starts out and your first vehicle called in is for free,but you'd better be sure that it's a vehicle that's going to benefit the team immediately,because every vehicle called in after that would require earning warpoints for them to be called in.
Another interesting strategy about this is that now you'll have to manage whether to call in another tank,dropship,or LAV,or to use those warpoints for an orbital strike.Having a field general to give the squad leaders approval for said deployments would be part of this too.So if you wanted to call in a LAV,it has to go up the proper chain of command to approve the deployment of a vehicle.
Now this all sounds fine and dandy,but it would still require the proper implementation of a proper command structure.Hopefully,the commander roles would play a major role in making this happen too.Anyway you look at it,the way that vehicles are deployed is pretty nonsensical and I feel is pretty stupid,especially when you see two dropships and a tank on one team in ambush.
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 23:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:So it seems that Dust isn't really going to be a game about balancing things out for the most part,but I think that it's a must for the sake of keeping the game fun,and not just making it seem like a second(or first for some people) job.
I would propose that one of the things that can be done to balance out vehicle usage is to make it where calling in vehicles has to be earned with warpoints.
So a match starts out and your first vehicle called in is for free,but you'd better be sure that it's a vehicle that's going to benefit the team immediately,because every vehicle called in after that would require earning warpoints for them to be called in.
Another interesting strategy about this is that now you'll have to manage whether to call in another tank,dropship,or LAV,or to use those warpoints for an orbital strike.Having a field general to give the squad leaders approval for said deployments would be part of this too.So if you wanted to call in a LAV,it has to go up the proper chain of command to approve the deployment of a vehicle.
Now this all sounds fine and dandy,but it would still require the proper implementation of a proper command structure.Hopefully,the commander roles would play a major role in making this happen too.Anyway you look at it,the way that vehicles are deployed is pretty nonsensical and I feel is pretty stupid,especially when you see two dropships and a tank on one team in ambush.
Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 23:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:So it seems that Dust isn't really going to be a game about balancing things out for the most part,but I think that it's a must for the sake of keeping the game fun,and not just making it seem like a second(or first for some people) job.
I would propose that one of the things that can be done to balance out vehicle usage is to make it where calling in vehicles has to be earned with warpoints.
So a match starts out and your first vehicle called in is for free,but you'd better be sure that it's a vehicle that's going to benefit the team immediately,because every vehicle called in after that would require earning warpoints for them to be called in.
Another interesting strategy about this is that now you'll have to manage whether to call in another tank,dropship,or LAV,or to use those warpoints for an orbital strike.Having a field general to give the squad leaders approval for said deployments would be part of this too.So if you wanted to call in a LAV,it has to go up the proper chain of command to approve the deployment of a vehicle.
Now this all sounds fine and dandy,but it would still require the proper implementation of a proper command structure.Hopefully,the commander roles would play a major role in making this happen too.Anyway you look at it,the way that vehicles are deployed is pretty nonsensical and I feel is pretty stupid,especially when you see two dropships and a tank on one team in ambush.
Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame. And that's why I said that CCP isn't really interested in balancing the game out,if they were,this would be a viable option,imo.
You don't have to spec into anything that you don't want to.That's part of making a team in your corp to complement each other,so that no one is a one man army.You still have militia gear,besides,you still have militia gear.
What would happen is that on your team,you and whoever is the commander would talk about what you want to do an the start of the match,then you be the first one to deploy your vehicle.Simple as that. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 00:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
more randoms need to invest into AV and stop spending SPs on dumb skills at the beginning tbqh |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 02:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm an LAV driver- and I love the idea! Not only does it make sense (why would anyone lend a ton of RDVs for noobs?), but it helps me get recognized as a driver.
I put tons of time, ISK, and SP into getting the most out of my wide selection of LAV fittings, but right now, people can't find me (or people like myself) out of the packs of random blues using starter fit LAVs. Maybe after something like this, I can get a decent gunner. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 02:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame. He said your first vehicle will be free- that means if you prove to be a terrible pilot, you're out of luck; BUT, if you absolutely kick kitten before an army takes you down, you'll be happily given permission to use another dropship. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 02:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame. He said your first vehicle will be free- that means if you prove to be a terrible pilot, you're out of luck; BUT, if you absolutely kick kitten before an army takes you down, you'll be happily given permission to use another dropship.
Exactly!
Why should we give free reign to those that aren't good at what they do?I'm looking to promote the team aspect of what's hopefully to be.Also,this should definitely encourage the use of team chat too.I haven't heard anyone really using it since the corp battles in the last build.
I would like to add in regards to what Jason said about getting warpoints.The warpoints earned would go into a collective team pot that the commander would have control of.You don't have to personally earn warpoints,the whole team has to earn them.
Also,just because you have enough warpoints,that doesn't automatically mean that you are going to get what you want either.Like McBob said,if you suck at piloting and that reputation gets out,no one is going to give you permission to fly,unless you steal someone else's called in dropship.
So what I hope with this proposal is to see more coordination and cooperation within a corp,and if randoms don't learn then they can keep playing without wasting and spamming vehicles.Those randoms that want to step up their game will learn to play with more coordination and be better players for it.
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Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 02:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:
Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame.
If you can buy it, you should be able to use it....
+1 |
Galthur
CrimeWave Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 02:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm pretty sure in the full game eve players have to pay for the transport of vehicles into battle so.... |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 03:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Not sure about how I feel about the WP idea. Others have mentioned limiting the number of vehicles on the map at any given time... IMO, this is probably the easiest solution. No more than one DS, one HAV, and two LAVs at any given time. (or some combo like that, whatever is deemed appropriate)
Otherwise, there needs to be ANOTHER rebalancing of AV gear vs vehicles. I've always been a proponent of having vehicles in the game, but they should be support pieces... not game changers. |
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 03:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Quote:
Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame.
If you can buy it, you should be able to use it.... +1
And you will be able to use it...if your team plays like a team and earns the WP to use it.
Hell,you can buy prototype dropsuits and weapons,and any thing else without the skills to use to actually use them,so that argument doesn't really hold water.
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Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 03:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
To cudgel the rotting equine corpse, we don't yet have all the game elements so a careful balancing is premature.
CCP is working to keep the game playable as it builds the rest and gathers data. I'm as anxious as the next person to see progress, but I recognise it takes time. I didn't get any of the promised dropship changes this build and I'm hoping they show up in the next.
I'd rather they get it right than rush it. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 03:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Not sure about how I feel about the WP idea. Others have mentioned limiting the number of vehicles on the map at any given time... IMO, this is probably the easiest solution. No more than one DS, one HAV, and two LAVs at any given time. (or some combo like that, whatever is deemed appropriate)
Otherwise, there needs to be ANOTHER rebalancing of AV gear vs vehicles. I've always been a proponent of having vehicles in the game, but they should be support pieces... not game changers.
I do agree with this,and at this juncture,they are total game changers.
The thing is,if the vehicles and AV aren't balanced,within a year,there will be minimal infantry combat,which will just turn the game into a gigantic Twisted Metal.Sorry,but I'm just not down for that.I'm not saying that vehicles should be limited,just make them harder to deploy onto the battlefield.
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Jonquill Caronite
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 03:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Another way to solve this problem would be to make Bolas's cost the friendly team something, and make them limited and something that needs to be purchased and stocked with limited slots on board an MCC for a Bolas. Then the AT teams can focus fire on Bolas instead of on the ground vehicles, and THEN take out vehicles to prevent the continued spamming of enemy vehicles. Make a Bolas cost something stupid like 100 million, its a medium aircraft capable of entering and exiting orbit with cloaking tech good armor and a huge carrying capacity, it should cost 1/10th of a billion ISK. That will make even some of the most well funded EVE corporations hesitant about providing it, and will force Dust players who don't want to risk WAY more then any battles worth to deploy only at the beginning of the match unless they want to risk their teams VERY VERY expensive asset for a critical mid-mission deployment where the enemy might have eyes on.
Further this would be the sort of thing that a commander would have to approve or could deny, such that vehicle pilots would have to rely on the command structure to receive vehicles after the first minute of the game, and if the commander didn't think it was worth the risk he could deny vehicle requests made later.
Its all reasonable, solves a significant problem, makes more sense then the current system, falls within EVE's style of win it or lose it, and suck it up play-style, and overall aside from whining that some players may not get access to their vehicles later in the game because their team is unwilling to risk major assets for this sort of thing, it will improve most player experience overall.
Really really sucks for people who spam militia LAV's though, and will draw complaints from players who can't keep their heavy assets alive because their rich and up until now could afford to be reckless. |
angelarch
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 07:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
i hate the idea of needing someone else to allow or dis-allow me from using MY OWN EQUIPMENT that i paid for.
pls no.
If you want to play in a very organized command structure, then that will come naturally when you are playing corp battles in null space AFAIK.
EDIT: like a previous poster said, once everyone skills up AV skills, that will be the balance. |
Riot Ruckus
Doomheim
56
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 08:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
As a forge gunner, i have no problems with vehicles, the more the merrier. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 11:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wp to call in vehicles? Are you out of your mind? This would be extreme unbalanced cause teams who dominate will dominate even more giving weak teams even a worse time. |
Reout Karaal
Doomheim
85
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 11:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Oh, I've got a better idea! Let's limit ammo and fuel for vehicles. Like DS should only have around 4 missiles total and fuel for 3 minutes of flight, then it should crash & burn. This would balance things out nicely.
This kind of QQ is the worst thing in beta. If you suck at playing AV then maybe spec into vehicles? Or go play Singstar or something. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 13:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
There's a lot of other things to do before considering WP limitations for vehicules.
=> Limiting the amount of ammo on vehicles and add items to replenish those. Like Vehicle Nanohives, or simply Supply depot. Would avoid perma-spam of vehicles on specific targets. Would also somehow "force" dropship to land a few times in a game and thus reinforcing its transport role. Also, it would push further cooperation between infantry and vehicles. Infantry could carry those Vehicle Nanohives. There's no reason an infantry guy has to make sure he has ways of getting some ammos and a vehicle hasnt.
=> Kill those freakin missile turret..... whether it is range, ROF, damage, they're an obvious OP Win Button.
=> Rethink some skills..... the damage bonus for turret as a passive skill.... really ?
And finally, there's already a limit in the number of vehicle a map can sustain. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 13:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:So it seems that Dust isn't really going to be a game about balancing things out for the most part,but I think that it's a must for the sake of keeping the game fun,and not just making it seem like a second(or first for some people) job.
I would propose that one of the things that can be done to balance out vehicle usage is to make it where calling in vehicles has to be earned with warpoints.
So a match starts out and your first vehicle called in is for free,but you'd better be sure that it's a vehicle that's going to benefit the team immediately,because every vehicle called in after that would require earning warpoints for them to be called in.
Another interesting strategy about this is that now you'll have to manage whether to call in another tank,dropship,or LAV,or to use those warpoints for an orbital strike.Having a field general to give the squad leaders approval for said deployments would be part of this too.So if you wanted to call in a LAV,it has to go up the proper chain of command to approve the deployment of a vehicle.
Now this all sounds fine and dandy,but it would still require the proper implementation of a proper command structure.Hopefully,the commander roles would play a major role in making this happen too.Anyway you look at it,the way that vehicles are deployed is pretty nonsensical and I feel is pretty stupid,especially when you see two dropships and a tank on one team in ambush.
Its a bad idea
Why should i invest well over 3mil SP into tanks only to find out i maybe only be able to call one in after the MCC is halfway into armor and the match is nearly over? |
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Shiro Mokuzan
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
106
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 18:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Terrible idea.
Vehicles are an asset that you train for and pay for, not a bonus you might get to use. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 18:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Terrible idea.
Vehicles are an asset that you train for and pay for, not a bonus you might get to use. ^This. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 18:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:more randoms need to invest into AV and stop spending SPs on dumb skills at the beginning tbqh
I would hate to be that dripshit pilot or tank driver that has 8 or 16 sets of swarms on my tail! I dont care who you are 32 or 64 swarms on me is not my idea of fun!
Its the main thing randoms should learn! Just my 0.02 ISK! |
Jariel Manton
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
210
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 18:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I'm an LAV driver- and I love the idea! Not only does it make sense (why would anyone lend a ton of RDVs for noobs?), but it helps me get recognized as a driver.
I put tons of time, ISK, and SP into getting the most out of my wide selection of LAV fittings, but right now, people can't find me (or people like myself) out of the packs of random blues using starter fit LAVs. Maybe after something like this, I can get a decent gunner.
I absolutely love pew pewing from the back of a good LAV driver. Come on over to STB and i'll let you drive me around allllll day long! |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 01:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
I understand the reservations,but it seems that the poo poo-ers are only thinking about themselves and not thinking of the bigger picture of the team aspect of the game.
I must admit,I do like Laurent Cazaderon idea for resupplying ammo in vehicles though,and actually I must admit,is probably a better idea than mine.But of course,no one likes it when there easy mode is taken away,so....
PS,I will firmly stand behind my belief that this game in a year after release,if left unchecked with the ridiculous vehicle spam,will turn into Twisted Metal,where there are more vehicle on a map than actual soldiers on the ground.Check back in a year to see if I'm right or not. |
ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 02:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'd like to see the free LAV disappear. they need to be cheap but just like the milita swam launcher it needs to have a price tag. Make people choose between calling in a bunch of cheep vehicles or saving up to stalk up on for the gear they have specced into. Heck, give new player 50 free one so they can get comfortable be hind the wheel. If they like them they will buy more! |
ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 02:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Terrible idea.
Vehicles are an asset that you train for and pay for, not a bonus you might get to use. ^This. ^^This |
ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 02:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I'm an LAV driver- and I love the idea! Not only does it make sense (why would anyone lend a ton of RDVs for noobs?), but it helps me get recognized as a driver.
I put tons of time, ISK, and SP into getting the most out of my wide selection of LAV fittings, but right now, people can't find me (or people like myself) out of the packs of random blues using starter fit LAVs. Maybe after something like this, I can get a decent gunner.
THIS!!!. i know the feel but draining WP for vehicles isn't the way to go. |
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 03:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Quote:
Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame.
If you can buy it, you should be able to use it.... +1 And you will be able to use it...if your team plays like a team and earns the WP to use it. Hell,you can buy prototype dropsuits and weapons,and any thing else without the skills to use to actually use them,so that argument doesn't really hold water.
So reward better teams who are winning by giving them access to the vehicles, tanks, dropships. Not much of a balance to the game if you go that route.
Im not sure who you are teaming up with, but the people i team up with are smart enough to buy only stuff they can use
|
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 03:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Not sure about how I feel about the WP idea. Others have mentioned limiting the number of vehicles on the map at any given time... IMO, this is probably the easiest solution. No more than one DS, one HAV, and two LAVs at any given time. (or some combo like that, whatever is deemed appropriate)
Otherwise, there needs to be ANOTHER rebalancing of AV gear vs vehicles. I've always been a proponent of having vehicles in the game, but they should be support pieces... not game changers.
I remember reading about a 4 vehicle limit to a team. Though this was 3 or 4 months ago. |
|
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 03:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Quote:
Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame.
If you can buy it, you should be able to use it.... +1 And you will be able to use it...if your team plays like a team and earns the WP to use it. Hell,you can buy prototype dropsuits and weapons,and any thing else without the skills to use to actually use them,so that argument doesn't really hold water. So reward better teams who are winning by giving them access to the vehicles, tanks, dropships. Not much of a balance to the game if you go that route. Im not sure who you are teaming up with, but the people i team up with are smart enough to buy only stuff they can use Seems like you just don't understand the concept.You still have the mindset of "what can I do with my vehicle to improve my gameplay",instead of ,"what can I do with my vehicles to help my team win". The idea was to reduce the massive vehicle spamming by making it a privilege,NOT A RIGHT,to use your vehicles in a match.
Either way,I've already conceded that there's a better option that someone else posted that would limit vehicle ammo,requiring you to resupply it. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 03:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hobos-N-Guns wrote:mikegunnz wrote:Not sure about how I feel about the WP idea. Others have mentioned limiting the number of vehicles on the map at any given time... IMO, this is probably the easiest solution. No more than one DS, one HAV, and two LAVs at any given time. (or some combo like that, whatever is deemed appropriate)
Otherwise, there needs to be ANOTHER rebalancing of AV gear vs vehicles. I've always been a proponent of having vehicles in the game, but they should be support pieces... not game changers. I remember reading about a 4 vehicle limit to a team. Though this was 3 or 4 months ago. All I'll tell you is that in the corp battle in the last build,we were fighting against eight,I repeat EIGHT TANKS on the opposing team.Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who won that match. |
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 04:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame. He said your first vehicle will be free- that means if you prove to be a terrible pilot, you're out of luck; BUT, if you absolutely kick kitten before an army takes you down, you'll be happily given permission to use another dropship. Exactly! Why should we give free reign to those that aren't good at what they do?I'm looking to promote the team aspect of what's hopefully to be.Also,this should definitely encourage the use of team chat too.I haven't heard anyone really using it since the corp battles in the last build. I would like to add in regards to what Jason said about getting warpoints.The warpoints earned would go into a collective team pot that the commander would have control of.You don't have to personally earn warpoints,the whole team has to earn them. Also,just because you have enough warpoints,that doesn't automatically mean that you are going to get what you want either.Like McBob said,if you suck at piloting and that reputation gets out,no one is going to give you permission to fly,unless you steal someone else's called in dropship. So what I hope with this proposal is to see more coordination and cooperation within a corp,and if randoms don't learn then they can keep playing without wasting and spamming vehicles.Those randoms that want to step up their game will learn to play with more coordination and be better players for it.
So if someone does not measure up to your standards, then they lose the right to use there own vehicles ??? So much for practicing to get better, you just decide they suck and they don't get to use there vehicles with there team.
Sounds like BS to me.... |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 04:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Want it to cost war points to respawn? Thought so |
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 04:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I'm an LAV driver- and I love the idea! Not only does it make sense (why would anyone lend a ton of RDVs for noobs?), but it helps me get recognized as a driver.
I put tons of time, ISK, and SP into getting the most out of my wide selection of LAV fittings, but right now, people can't find me (or people like myself) out of the packs of random blues using starter fit LAVs. Maybe after something like this, I can get a decent gunner.
So in your whole corporation, you can't find a decient gunner ????
Sounds like a personal problem and not one that should effect NOOBs or anyone else who want to learn how to use there vehicles better.
How about joining a different corp.
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Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 04:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Hobos-N-Guns wrote:mikegunnz wrote:Not sure about how I feel about the WP idea. Others have mentioned limiting the number of vehicles on the map at any given time... IMO, this is probably the easiest solution. No more than one DS, one HAV, and two LAVs at any given time. (or some combo like that, whatever is deemed appropriate)
Otherwise, there needs to be ANOTHER rebalancing of AV gear vs vehicles. I've always been a proponent of having vehicles in the game, but they should be support pieces... not game changers. I remember reading about a 4 vehicle limit to a team. Though this was 3 or 4 months ago. All I'll tell you is that in the corp battle in the last build,we were fighting against eight,I repeat EIGHT TANKS on the opposing team.Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who won that match.
Was not talking about rocket science, was talking about a possible number the Devs may use in the release of Dust. |
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 04:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Terrible idea.
Vehicles are an asset that you train for and pay for, not a bonus you might get to use.
Thank you for stating it alot better than i did =D
+1
|
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 07:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Terrible idea.
Vehicles are an asset that you train for and pay for, not a bonus you might get to use. Thank you for stating it alot better than i did =D +1 I mean, hell, vehicles for War Points was the original concept back in 2009. If it was thrown out before they even started MPT, what's the likelihood its a good idea? |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 07:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
i thought of the same thing, but dismissed it as a bad idea. what gives anyone the right to limit another mercs use of weapons they purchased. i'm having a blast blowing up all the LAVs with my invested swarms. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 11:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:i thought of the same thing, but dismissed it as a bad idea. what gives anyone the right to limit another mercs use of weapons they purchased. i'm having a blast blowing up all the LAVs with my invested swarms.
Well,if what has been said it true,and there is a cap on the amount of vehicles in each match,then what's the difference?
So hypothetically,you can get into a number of matches,and never be able to call in a vehicle,so in that case,it's almost the same thing.
|
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Pranekt Tyrvoth
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
177
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 11:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
If you want your call of duty game with killstreaks, go play call of duty.
Dust is not CoD.
And just because you proposed this, I will spawn tanks for every single person on my team if I ever see you in a match. |
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
192
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 13:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
Whilst the idea isn't a bad one, I'd prefer using a pool of war points then buying vehicles out of that kinda like table top warfare.
So if you have a proto tank it costs a lot of points to deploy it, but a standard one would not.
It would stop the "invincible" tank spam we saw in the other builds and CCP wouldn't have to nerf tanks into oblivion like everyone keeps insisting on, because the team only has limited amount of points. Sure you could have some ridiculous OP tank, but only one and that's it. If an entire team can't take out this vehicle solo, then there's something wrong with their setups imo. In my eyes, the issue has always been the quantity.
That to me is far more balanced than the system we have now of "First come first served".
|
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 13:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Quote:
Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame.
If you can buy it, you should be able to use it.... +1 And you will be able to use it...if your team plays like a team and earns the WP to use it. Hell,you can buy prototype dropsuits and weapons,and any thing else without the skills to use to actually use them,so that argument doesn't really hold water. So reward better teams who are winning by giving them access to the vehicles, tanks, dropships. Not much of a balance to the game if you go that route. Im not sure who you are teaming up with, but the people i team up with are smart enough to buy only stuff they can use Seems like you just don't understand the concept.You still have the mindset of "what can I do with my vehicle to improve my gameplay",instead of ,"what can I do with my vehicles to help my team win". The idea was to reduce the massive vehicle spamming by making it a privilege,NOT A RIGHT,to use your vehicles in a match. Either way,I've already conceded that there's a better option that someone else posted that would limit vehicle ammo,requiring you to resupply it.
I do understand what your trying to say, im just saying the privilege vs rights should not be decided by players ! That would be abused with favoritism and decisions based on who YOU think deserves to use them.
Need a good example, Your own words above show just how this will happen.
=============================
Seems like you just don't understand the concept.You still have the mindset of "what can I do with my vehicle to improve my gameplay",instead of ,"what can I do with my vehicles to help my team win".
============================= Thank you for making my point |
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 13:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:I'd like to see the free LAV disappear. they need to be cheap but just like the milita swam launcher it needs to have a price tag. Make people choose between calling in a bunch of cheep vehicles or saving up to stalk up on for the gear they have specced into. Heck, give new player 50 free one so they can get comfortable be hind the wheel. If they like them they will buy more!
+1 |
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 14:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg wrote:Whilst the idea isn't a bad one, I'd prefer using a pool of war points then buying vehicles out of that kinda like table top warfare.
So if you have a proto tank it costs a lot of points to deploy it, but a standard one would not.
It would stop the "invincible" tank spam we saw in the other builds and CCP wouldn't have to nerf tanks into oblivion like everyone keeps insisting on, because the team only has limited amount of points. Sure you could have some ridiculous OP tank, but only one and that's it. If an entire team can't take out this vehicle solo, then there's something wrong with their setups imo. In my eyes, the issue has always been the quantity.
That to me is far more balanced than the system we have now of "First come first served".
There would be no balance at all. Your rewarding those doing better with dropships and AV's which will screw the other team for not being as good.
Thats not balance |
Hobos-N-Guns
Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 14:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Necrodermis wrote:i thought of the same thing, but dismissed it as a bad idea. what gives anyone the right to limit another mercs use of weapons they purchased. i'm having a blast blowing up all the LAVs with my invested swarms. Well,if what has been said it true,and there is a cap on the amount of vehicles in each match,then what's the difference? So hypothetically,you can get into a number of matches,and never be able to call in a vehicle,so in that case,it's almost the same thing.
The difference is ===>>> The decision is not decided by any player |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:48:00 -
[47] - Quote
Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote:If you want your call of duty game with killstreaks, go play call of duty.
Dust is not CoD.
And just because you proposed this, I will spawn tanks for every single person on my team if I ever see you in a match. it's not a killstreak- it's a spam blocker. As you keep ignoring, the first time you call in a vehicle, you don't need WP- after that, you'll need WP to replace it. If you were an idiot and instantly crashed it, without getting WP, NO SPAM FOR YOU! However, if you were a decent driver/pilot and got kills/assists, you won't have a problem. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote:If you want your call of duty game with killstreaks, go play call of duty.
Dust is not CoD.
And just because you proposed this, I will spawn tanks for every single person on my team if I ever see you in a match. Who the **** said anything about killstreaks!!!
Jezz,you guys really need to learn to read! |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:Hobos-N-Guns wrote:Quote:
Sounds like a bad idea. Not only will I have to skill into Dropships to be a pilot, I'll have to skill into infantry skills to get the WP to get my vehicle after the first one dies? Oh and then I've got to find 300k-1Million ISK to actually pay for the damn thing. Also, how is it pretty stupid when theres two dropships and a tank in a game? Wait, the enemy team doesn't have anyone that spec'd into a vehicle? What a damn shame.
If you can buy it, you should be able to use it.... +1 And you will be able to use it...if your team plays like a team and earns the WP to use it. Hell,you can buy prototype dropsuits and weapons,and any thing else without the skills to use to actually use them,so that argument doesn't really hold water. So reward better teams who are winning by giving them access to the vehicles, tanks, dropships. Not much of a balance to the game if you go that route. Im not sure who you are teaming up with, but the people i team up with are smart enough to buy only stuff they can use But as it is now,the better team get all the vehicle AT THE START OF THE MATCH!
At least the weaker team would have a fighting chance for at least 3-5 minutes if a warpoint deployment were necessary.
I guess it's just a whole lot of fun to curbstomp,or get curbstomped for an entire match,instead of having a fighting chance. |
Pranekt Tyrvoth
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
177
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 22:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
I am not interested in your concept of fairness, the EVE universe is not meant to be fair, nor is Dust.
If I see either of you in a match, I will drop tanks for everyone on my side. Go play Call of Duty if you want your "earn things by point generation". To further up the anty, every time a tank on my side is destroyed, I will drop ANOTHER tank for the person that died in it.
Go back to your scrublord CoD where you belong. |
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 23:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote:I am not interested in your concept of fairness, the EVE universe is not meant to be fair, nor is Dust.
If I see either of you in a match, I will drop tanks for everyone on my side. Go play Call of Duty if you want your "earn things by point generation". To further up the anty, every time a tank on my side is destroyed, I will drop ANOTHER tank for the person that died in it.
Go back to your scrublord CoD where you belong. My god, are you an idiot or what? No one said anything about COD!
I'm not talking about being fair,I'm talking about a little bit of balance to make it fun to play,you know,the reason why anyone plays games,for FUN.
I hope you keep dropping tanks because I'll make sure my team blasts that $h!7 to smithereens,and hopefully you'll go completely broke doing so.
And FYI,I've played probably a grand total of 30 minute on any COD game,and couldn't care less about any of them. If you have something critical to say other than "go back to COD,they I'll entertain it,but until then,maybe you should just keep quite. |
Pranekt Tyrvoth
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
177
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 23:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
You'll qq and ragequit long before I run out of isk. :) |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 23:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote:You'll qq and ragequit long before I run out of isk. :) Says you.Hope all of your clones die in a fire.
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Sev Alcatraz
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
185
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 00:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:So it seems that Dust isn't really going to be a game about balancing things out for the most part,but I think that it's a must for the sake of keeping the game fun,and not just making it seem like a second(or first for some people) job.
I would propose that one of the things that can be done to balance out vehicle usage is to make it where calling in vehicles has to be earned with warpoints.
So a match starts out and your first vehicle called in is for free,but you'd better be sure that it's a vehicle that's going to benefit the team immediately,because every vehicle called in after that would require earning warpoints for them to be called in.
Another interesting strategy about this is that now you'll have to manage whether to call in another tank,dropship,or LAV,or to use those warpoints for an orbital strike.Having a field general to give the squad leaders approval for said deployments would be part of this too.So if you wanted to call in a LAV,it has to go up the proper chain of command to approve the deployment of a vehicle.
Now this all sounds fine and dandy,but it would still require the proper implementation of a proper command structure.Hopefully,the commander roles would play a major role in making this happen too.Anyway you look at it,the way that vehicles are deployed is pretty nonsensical and I feel is pretty stupid,especially when you see two dropships and a tank on one team in ambush.
your idea is irrelevant, i believe if you have the money to throw copious amounts of equipment on the field so be it, because when it blows up oh well.
you "warpoint" system reminds me of cod >_> " oh i need 800 warpoints to deploy a tank!" reminds be of kill streaks
this is an all around terrible idea. |
Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 00:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Both ideas would end up taking to long, and making it a "if I die I lose hard" rather than "ok I died, but I might still could make a profit". |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 01:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote:I am not interested in your concept of fairness, the EVE universe is not meant to be fair, nor is Dust.
If I see either of you in a match, I will drop tanks for everyone on my side. Go play Call of Duty if you want your "earn things by point generation". To further up the anty, every time a tank on my side is destroyed, I will drop ANOTHER tank for the person that died in it.
Go back to your scrublord CoD where you belong. OMFG you're an idiot. Do you really think whoever owns the war barge would keep sending RDVs just for you to be an idiot and waste it? the "it's my money- I'll do what I want with it" argument is only valid when you own everything that's involved with sending you your tank. |
Pranekt Tyrvoth
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
177
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 01:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
lol. as it currently stands in this beta, the only cost to bring down assets is personal (per character). I'm pretty sure you've clearly underestimated my willingness to go to extremes (regularly bringing tanks for an entire team just to troll you over your dislike of the current system), and of others to support this.
not to mention, once the isk faucet turns on, this will be better for me and worse for you - that's guaranteed.
anyway, hope to see one of you CoD fanboys in a match sometime so I can begin the tank spamming.
Please deposit more of your tears into my golden chalice. |
Corvus Ravensong
Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency
179
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 01:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
As a low sp (for now) AV specialist, I say we need more LAV and dropship spam, not less.
If your team spams the LAV's and I get 18 kills in less than 30 seconds, that's your bad.
If the other team runs roughshod over you with LAV spam, that's also your bad - even the FREE anti-vehicle starter fit clears an area of LAV's right quick and in a hurry. If you all spawn in as AR assaults with no AV support, you deserve to all be turned into hood ornaments |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 01:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote:lol. as it currently stands in this beta, the only cost to bring down assets is personal (per character). I'm pretty sure you've clearly underestimated my willingness to go to extremes (regularly bringing tanks for an entire team just to troll you over your dislike of the current system), and of others to support this.
not to mention, once the isk faucet turns on, this will be better for me and worse for you - that's guaranteed.
anyway, hope to see one of you CoD fanboys in a match sometime so I can begin the tank spamming.
Please deposit more of your tears into my golden chalice. actually, once the ISK faucet turns on, I'll be eating your tanks with dropship/(whatever other aircraft there will be at the time) spam
well, that will happen regardless of whether or not this thread's idea goes through- only difference is if it does, you'll only have 1 tank for me to blow up |
VK deathslaer
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
149
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 08:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:So it seems that Dust isn't really going to be a game about balancing things out for the most part,but I think that it's a must for the sake of keeping the game fun,and not just making it seem like a second(or first for some people) job.
I would propose that one of the things that can be done to balance out vehicle usage is to make it where calling in vehicles has to be earned with warpoints.
So a match starts out and your first vehicle called in is for free,but you'd better be sure that it's a vehicle that's going to benefit the team immediately,because every vehicle called in after that would require earning warpoints for them to be called in.
Another interesting strategy about this is that now you'll have to manage whether to call in another tank,dropship,or LAV,or to use those warpoints for an orbital strike.Having a field general to give the squad leaders approval for said deployments would be part of this too.So if you wanted to call in a LAV,it has to go up the proper chain of command to approve the deployment of a vehicle.
Now this all sounds fine and dandy,but it would still require the proper implementation of a proper command structure.Hopefully,the commander roles would play a major role in making this happen too.Anyway you look at it,the way that vehicles are deployed is pretty nonsensical and I feel is pretty stupid,especially when you see two dropships and a tank on one team in ambush.
dumb pubbie |
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 11:05:00 -
[61] - Quote
VK deathslaer wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:So it seems that Dust isn't really going to be a game about balancing things out for the most part,but I think that it's a must for the sake of keeping the game fun,and not just making it seem like a second(or first for some people) job.
I would propose that one of the things that can be done to balance out vehicle usage is to make it where calling in vehicles has to be earned with warpoints.
So a match starts out and your first vehicle called in is for free,but you'd better be sure that it's a vehicle that's going to benefit the team immediately,because every vehicle called in after that would require earning warpoints for them to be called in.
Another interesting strategy about this is that now you'll have to manage whether to call in another tank,dropship,or LAV,or to use those warpoints for an orbital strike.Having a field general to give the squad leaders approval for said deployments would be part of this too.So if you wanted to call in a LAV,it has to go up the proper chain of command to approve the deployment of a vehicle.
Now this all sounds fine and dandy,but it would still require the proper implementation of a proper command structure.Hopefully,the commander roles would play a major role in making this happen too.Anyway you look at it,the way that vehicles are deployed is pretty nonsensical and I feel is pretty stupid,especially when you see two dropships and a tank on one team in ambush.
dumb pubbie
Wow! What a compelling argument against the idea!
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Averill von Skuld
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 11:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
Nobody wants your carebear qq warpoints = vehicle allowances.
I'll happily spawn a horde of LAVs so that everyone gets a chance to troll you. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 17:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Averill von Skuld wrote:Nobody wants your carebear qq warpoints = vehicle allowances. I'll happily spawn a horde of LAVs so that everyone gets a chance to troll you.
You mean no one who has actual gun game and hides in a tank all day long,only concerned about their K/D ratio. Yeah,I get it now.
And if you think spawning LAVs is frightening anyone,you are a bigger fool than you sound. |
ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 17:51:00 -
[64] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Averill von Skuld wrote:Nobody wants your carebear qq warpoints = vehicle allowances. I'll happily spawn a horde of LAVs so that everyone gets a chance to troll you. You mean no one who has actual gun game and hides in a tank all day long,only concerned about their K/D ratio. Yeah,I get it now. And if you think spawning LAVs is frightening anyone,you are a bigger fool than you sound. you underestimate my power but na, my methana and AT-cycle launcher puts anything with two legs and a gun on its back. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 21:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:Averill von Skuld wrote:Nobody wants your carebear qq warpoints = vehicle allowances. I'll happily spawn a horde of LAVs so that everyone gets a chance to troll you. You mean no one who has actual gun game and hides in a tank all day long,only concerned about their K/D ratio. Yeah,I get it now. And if you think spawning LAVs is frightening anyone,you are a bigger fool than you sound. you underestimate my power but na, my methana and AT-cycle launcher puts anything with two legs and a gun on its back. methana? are you joking? My saga's AT-1 accelerated launcher eats those for breakfast. And at a much longer range, while you're worried about every little explosive to ruin your armor. |
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