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ARs need a rebalance

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Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.10.23 14:53:00 - [1] - Quote ARs are messed up in how they compare to other weapons and need some simple stat fixs would make all weapons compare better. First AR need actual random and uncontrollable kick especially when firing continuously, weapons like the breach need to have the least amount of kick(not a buff xjumpman22), the tac is fine and the burst could use a tad more but its the standard that needs this the most. If Recoil is added then weapons like the laser rifle and other rifles would come out more so.
Herpn Derpidus Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.10.23 16:57:00 - [2] - Quote yea i have to agree with you on this... i use scrambler pistols so i know i shouldnt really be talking too much about range complaints, but i was getting tore up by ARs when i was up top of this hill and my effectiveness wouldnt even show up because of how far away i was, i couldnt believe they were even doing damage to me from that range, let alone landing consistent hits on me
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.23 17:07:00 - [3] - Quote Herpn Derpidus wrote: yea i have to agree with you on this... i use scrambler pistols so i know i shouldnt really be talking too much about range complaints, but i was getting tore up by ARs when i was up top of this hill and my effectiveness wouldnt even show up because of how far away i was, i couldnt believe they were even doing damage to me from that range, let alone landing consistent hits on me i tried the pistol out. you have to be on top of enemies in order to do damage. it seems the further you are the less damage it does. ARs are the kings of weapons, they will dominate close combat mid and far ranges. the only thing that can beat them are the shot gun at close range heavy machine gun in med and in some distance sniper rifles at far. it's too omni in my opinion. it can fill rolls in every combat instance. get rid of the scope and it should do better
Herpn Derpidus Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.10.23 17:09:00 - [4] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: Herpn Derpidus wrote: yea i have to agree with you on this... i use scrambler pistols so i know i shouldnt really be talking too much about range complaints, but i was getting tore up by ARs when i was up top of this hill and my effectiveness wouldnt even show up because of how far away i was, i couldnt believe they were even doing damage to me from that range, let alone landing consistent hits on me i tried the pistol out. you have to be on top of enemies in order to do damage. it seems the further you are the less damage it does. ARs are the kings of weapons, they will dominate close combat mid and far ranges. the only thing that can beat them are the shot gun at close range heavy machine gun in med and in some distance sniper rifles at far. it's too omni in my opinion. it can fill rolls in every combat instance. get rid of the scope and it should do better if they gave it alot more kick it wouldnt be so easy to land rapid hits from afar just look at the amount of recoil most guns have in other games. there the recoil prevents rapid fire at max ranges
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.23 17:16:00 - [5] - Quote Herpn Derpidus wrote: if they gave it alot more kick it wouldnt be so easy to land rapid hits from afar just look at the amount of recoil most guns have in other games. there the recoil prevents rapid fire at max ranges i don't want them to be like the AR they had previously. although the kick is practically non-existant this build and could use a bit more kick. i think if they got rid of the scope that is pretty dead on at max range it would limit their effectiveness at those insain ranges. i also think bullet damage falloff would help too. i have seen dozens of times where bullets just magically dissapear because they were 2 feet from their effective range. a round should keep on traveling but have lower and lower damage exponential drop off
WHz DS9899 Doomheim 136	Posted - 2012.10.23 21:29:00 - [6] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: Herpn Derpidus wrote: if they gave it alot more kick it wouldnt be so easy to land rapid hits from afar just look at the amount of recoil most guns have in other games. there the recoil prevents rapid fire at max ranges i don't want them to be like the AR they had previously. although the kick is practically non-existant this build and could use a bit more kick. i think if they got rid of the scope that is pretty dead on at max range it would limit their effectiveness at those insain ranges. i also think bullet damage falloff would help too. i have seen dozens of times where bullets just magically dissapear because they were 2 feet from their effective range. a round should keep on traveling but have lower and lower damage exponential drop off These are balls of plasma. Yes they will disappear over time.
SoulRipper Cybran Wraith Shadow Guards 8	Posted - 2012.10.23 21:35:00 - [7] - Quote They could use some long range changes, they were not meant as snipers. Thats what snipers are for.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.10.23 21:50:00 - [8] - Quote The AR is fine. Proto laser rifle can hold its own against a proto AR at range. Proto HMG wrecks proto AR cqc and medium range. Proto SMG wrecks AR in cqc. Proto sniper rifle wrecks AR at long range. So what the problem here? The AR is the jack of all trades but is also the fail of all trades. There is a counter for every engagement. Adapt or die. Control the engagement and only take the engagements that suit your play style. Working as intended. Stop crying people. Seriously, saying the AR is OP because you can't keep up range with a pistol? Seriously? That's hilarious. Cmon people. Stop crying. For the record I have tested the creadron this build and it has trouble killing people in advanced gear. Its a water gun now. It needs a buff. Anyone that disagrees needs to try it against other prototype weapons. The creadron is a joke now.
Labrique Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.10.24 00:11:00 - [9] - Quote oh come on !!! everybody know that AR are OP. they can snip, are the best weapons on close and mid range, look at the most used weapons, HMG,laser,shootgun are pretty rare. Why, because people always using the OP,it is easy farming.
Herpn Derpidus Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.10.24 16:31:00 - [10] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: The AR is fine. Proto laser rifle can hold its own against a proto AR at range. Proto HMG wrecks proto AR cqc and medium range. Proto SMG wrecks AR in cqc. Proto sniper rifle wrecks AR at long range. So what the problem here? The AR is the jack of all trades but is also the fail of all trades. There is a counter for every engagement. Adapt or die. Control the engagement and only take the engagements that suit your play style. Working as intended. Stop crying people. Seriously, saying the AR is OP because you can't keep up range with a pistol? Seriously? That's hilarious. Cmon people. Stop crying. For the record I have tested the creadron this build and it has trouble killing people in advanced gear. Its a water gun now. It needs a buff. Anyone that disagrees needs to try it against other prototype weapons. The creadron is a joke now. the leading OP AR is not the credron anymore... its the duvolle because all breach ARs are total garbage right now

Noel Bellamy Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 36	Posted - 2012.10.24 16:42:00 - [11] - Quote I agree that the standard ARs are rather OP, the Government should contract CCP to build small arms for them, since it seems that CCP knows the secret to recoil-less Assault Rifles. Honestly, I think it's JUST the standard AR that needs the kick back, and the burst fire should fire 6 rounds instead of 7 (So it makes sense with a 60 round clip, 7 doesn't go into 60 evenly)
Raze galder Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2012.10.24 16:48:00 - [12] - Quote Using a militia AR and hitting a point consistently with very little veering of a bullet is bad. I do not know if the other rifles are like this cause im not focusing on them this build. But when a weapon can out damage and out range other weapons made for that then we have a problem. They should not be able to out class a sniper rifle at range or kill someone faster then a hmg. I feel then need some kick put back in them and maybe a minor max range decrease
Mister Hunt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 230	Posted - 2012.10.24 16:51:00 - [13] - Quote This is actually the cause of the immense lag and unplayability. Go into Dust and look up the AR skill. Each level reduces the kickback and dispersion by a percentage. You can't divide by zero, so the PS3 gets confused, and causes lag!
Raze galder Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2012.10.24 16:56:00 - [14] - Quote If that is the case then put some kick back in them. If u want to allow minimal kick but only with max AR skill i am fine with that but no kick off the bat does not work.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Legacy Rising 197	Posted - 2012.10.25 02:13:00 - [15] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: The AR is fine. Proto laser rifle can hold its own against a proto AR at range. Proto HMG wrecks proto AR cqc and medium range. Proto SMG wrecks AR in cqc. Proto sniper rifle wrecks AR at long range. So what the problem here? The AR is the jack of all trades but is also the fail of all trades. There is a counter for every engagement. Adapt or die. Control the engagement and only take the engagements that suit your play style. Working as intended. Stop crying people. Seriously, saying the AR is OP because you can't keep up range with a pistol? Seriously? That's hilarious. Cmon people. Stop crying. For the record I have tested the creadron this build and it has trouble killing people in advanced gear. Its a water gun now. It needs a buff. Anyone that disagrees needs to try it against other prototype weapons. The creadron is a joke now. I agree with my brother, AR arnt jack of all trades thier masters of all trades there little point to anything other than the standard assualt. Avenger may be right about a increase in kick benefiting the breach. alao why mention proto gear? The standard AR vs standard anything else always wins, and proto assualts beat Proto subs and HMG, proto fights are more about who fires first in the range and sense AR are good at any range if they get first shot they win
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.25 02:58:00 - [16] - Quote Crimson is pretty much dead right. I feel it could do with just 5-10% more dispersion/kick with no SP invested. It is however very much outclassed by laser rifles at range. Anyone saying AR's can snipe? Simple. You don't know what sniping is. So... We're left with medium an close range. SMG is comparable. Similar dps. HMG is simply better. Shotgun is king of CQC. So why is everyone using an assault rifle? Because it's good at everything. Except vehicles. You can't ask for something to be nerfed without providing some kind of stats... But like I say, a tiny weeny bit more recoil is the best way to keep it a skilled weapon (there is some recoil on the final 15 rounds in a clip of 60) Laser + SMG > Assault rifle. But using JUST an assault rifle allows for better modules/equipment. That is the real reason you see so many ARs.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.10.25 03:17:00 - [17] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Crimson is pretty much dead right. I feel it could do with just 5-10% more dispersion/kick with no SP invested. It is however very much outclassed by laser rifles at range. Anyone saying AR's can snipe? Simple. You don't know what sniping is. So... We're left with medium an close range. SMG is comparable. Similar dps. HMG is simply better. Shotgun is king of CQC. So why is everyone using an assault rifle? Because it's good at everything. Except vehicles. You can't ask for something to be nerfed without providing some kind of stats... But like I say, a tiny weeny bit more recoil is the best way to keep it a skilled weapon (there is some recoil on the final 15 rounds in a clip of 60) Laser + SMG > Assault rifle. But using JUST an assault rifle allows for better modules/equipment. That is the real reason you see so many ARs. Actually if its an HMG at close range, the AR guy would just sprint past you and kill your turtle speed turning ass dead. The HMG in every shooter is all about keeping the reticule on a target for a certain amount of time, but you can't do that at close range because of the turning speed. There is a sweet spot where the HMG has good power, accuracy, and tracking, but it's a small zone which can easily be overcome by the enemy aiming for headshot bonuses or just being two guys... although that is probably more the fault of the Heavy suit itself having bad HP for its size and no logi support because of the anti-farm nerf. Also, a pistol SHOULD be better at longer ranges than an AR. It is a single shot, light, easy to aim weapon, and although I usually whip it out when my militia AR needs reloading, it could do with a bit of a range advantage over the AR. Meanwhile, with the lack of Laser Rifle permutations, no one is really interested in them unless they had promised themselves that they would fire one the minute they came out. Also, once you have LR to III, it will NEVER OVERHEAT AGAIN. A bit much there, huh? The problem with the AR isn't that it is master of none, or that it is the jack of all trades. It is simply too good at all trades. Why should I use the weapon that is King/Jack/Knave when I can use the one that is Queen/Queen/Queen, has enough permutations for me to find one to be comfortable with, and still more accurate?
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.25 03:33:00 - [18] - Quote You are welcome to your opinions. But when you say a pistol should have a range advantage vs an assault rifle, I stopped taking you seriously. Same with laser overheat. And HMG "sweet spot". I would rather they hold off on an AR Nerf/tweak until they increase strafe speeds again. Then we can see if it's op. It's pretty good when the enemy just run right at you :D
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.10.25 03:40:00 - [19] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: You are welcome to your opinions. But when you say a pistol should have a range advantage vs an assault rifle, I stopped taking you seriously. Same with laser overheat. And HMG "sweet spot". I would rather they hold off on an AR Nerf/tweak until they increase strafe speeds again. Then we can see if it's op. It's pretty good when the enemy just run right at you :D I'm not going to assume anything, but have you ever used an HMG Mr. Calif? Or a laser rifle? The LR is supposed to have a heat meter as a limiting mechanic to keep it from just discharging all at once, same as the AR is supposed to have a recoil mechanic to keep you from spewing the whole clip with pinpoint accuracy. Removing the limiter just because you decided to put a few points here is insane. Loosening the limiter, like the HMG skill does, is fine, but completely removing the ability to reach overheat makes the fact that there is an overheat mildly stupid.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.25 03:50:00 - [20] - Quote Yes I've used both, and killed myself with overheating low level lasers plenty. Part of the reason I use assault rifles mostly... I just can't stay at range. Not my play style. Unless using a forgegun. HMG is more my style, but I hate heavy movement. So I use the average old assault rifle mostly. Let's just see the strafe speed fix first. SMG will probably be better at CQC then due to rate of fire.

Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.10.25 13:15:00 - [21] - Quote This was an issue before the strafe nerf as well, AR are to accurate with continuous fire they need kick to balance them out,crimson the breach doesn't need a buff it will get its use by not getting a lot if kick if this is implemented. The assault is more than capable of shooting snipers and killing them with these maps, all a AR needs is to see a red dot abd hold the trigger. All ARs need is a more random recoil so shots qre flying about in a more random direction and are hardee to keep sustian fire on them
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.25 16:29:00 - [22] - Quote It wasn't an issue in precursor. So it shouldn't be an issue once strafing is fixed.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.10.25 17:06:00 - [23] - Quote Yes it was just it was buried beneath all the hit detection issues it was OP then and its lack of recoil is OP now.


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