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Heligg
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
So i'll spend 2M Sp to put a drop uplink , take a sniper and prey that a militia doesn't kill me? wtf seriously.
And that, is it a joke? : t1: shield 90 , armor 100 t2: shield 70 , armor 130 SA: shield 90 , armor 100 SB: shield 70 , armor 130 vk0: shield 90 , armor 100 vk1: shield 70 , armor 130
And btw the 'draft saved' message sucks, it moves my screen every 5 sec.
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Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
yep, the type-2 variations are armor variation scouts who wishes they were logi's, they do solve the "logi not being able to keep up with other suits" problem though. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
The hp differences between standard, adv, and proto were removed last build. CCP did not intend for people to upgrade to get more hp. Fitting more/better modules is the reason for the better suits. |
Ky'noke Vyrus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
but the devs just said. This game is different from eve. It should be fast paced and flat like every other shooter out there. Isn't that why u became interested? Because u wanted to play a game just like every other shooter out there? Except with bad gun play and game mechanics that is |
Ky'noke Vyrus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
In eve as u skill into new ships the get better, more specialized. Why would u want that in an MMOFPS. just let them be able to fit better weapons and gear |
Ky'noke Vyrus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can you hear my sarcasm yet? |
Heligg
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:yep, the type-2 variations are armor variation scouts who wishes they were logi's, they do solve the "logi not being able to keep up with other suits" problem though.
But it doesn't solve the fact that i will be one shotted by anyone |
4447
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
649
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Posted - 2012.10.10 20:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Heligg wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:yep, the type-2 variations are armor variation scouts who wishes they were logi's, they do solve the "logi not being able to keep up with other suits" problem though. But it doesn't solve the fact that i will be one shotted by anyone
ever heard of shoot, kill, move on? |
Ky'noke Vyrus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.10.10 20:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
4447 wrote:
ever heard of shoot, kill, move on?
That worked when scouts had a speed advantage.. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
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Posted - 2012.10.10 20:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm sorry you got used to using to playing as a gun wielding ballerina capable of running faster than hit detection before the devs fixed it.
Please start using the suit for what it was designed for and provide feedback regarding that. |
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Heligg
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.10.10 20:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
And what was it designed for? ( other than an other logi) |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
666
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Posted - 2012.10.10 20:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
The ever diminishing difference between prototype gear and militia gear is probably one of the worst possible changes the "make the world flat" crowd has pushed for in this beta.
That sort of "balance" is based on the mistaken assumption that players of all levels will always be lumped together in matches exactly like the ones we have been fighting to date, and the strange conviction that a single player with no sp skills leveled and militia gear should always be able to kill a single player in prototype gear if they encounter each other on the field. All other things being equal.
Yes, you can fit a few more modules on the more advanced suits more easily. ANd yes more advanced modules on more advanced suits can give a player an advantage. But I would like to see a little more benefit from the A- series and prototype suits. |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ky'noke, before you go triple posting again, find the "edit" button.
Anyway, scouts are suppose to be squishy, they have hardly any body armor. If this were a "medieval" MMO, scouts would be wearing cloth armor. Not sure what problem you have with being squishy. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
666
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Ky'noke, before you go triple posting again, find the "edit" button.
Anyway, scouts are suppose to be squishy, they have hardly any body armor. If this were a "medieval" MMO, scouts would be wearing cloth armor. Not sure what problem you have with being squishy.
I think you are missing the point.
What the thread is alluding to is that the prototype scout suit is exactly as squishy as the militia scout suit. If you don't take fitted modules into accout.
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aighun wrote:The ever diminishing difference between prototype gear and militia gear is probably one of the worst possible changes the "make the world flat" crowd has pushed for in this beta.
That sort of "balance" is based on the mistaken assumption that players of all levels will always be lumped together in matches exactly like the ones we have been fighting to date, and the strange conviction that a single player with no sp skills leveled and militia gear should always be able to kill a single player in prototype gear if they encounter each other on the field. All other things being equal.
Yes, you can fit a few more modules on the more advanced suits more easily. ANd yes more advanced modules on more advanced suits can give a player an advantage. But I would like to see a little more benefit from the A- series and prototype suits.
u can fit more high end gear isnt that enough of an advantage for ppl? or do ppl srsly need a huge crutch? |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Longshot Ravenwood wrote:I'm sorry you got used to using to playing as a gun wielding ballerina capable of running faster than hit detection before the devs fixed it.
Please start using the suit for what it was designed for and provide feedback regarding that.
Scouts suits are designed to have a reduced stature & resulting hitbox when compared to other suits which makes them harder to sight on and hit at a distance. They also have a higher speed to allow them to move more quickly on the field for repositioning and hacking while enemy troops are being engaged by other units on the battlefield. The speed can give them an edge in close combat if they take advantage of their surroundings & utilize high damage short range weapons (like the shotgun).
That said, I use the dragonfly with a mass driver for everything, because I can. I don't have a very high survival rate but, seriously -- explosions. |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you want more armor plating level up your passive skills, add armor modules, or choose a different classification. Maybe you'll like the 'heavy' class trooper. It has plenty of armor for you. Your complaining is unwarranted though, and unnecessary. |
Ky'noke Vyrus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Meh I like triple posting thank u much. And this isn't a medieval mmo. Its a futuristic space mmo linked to eve. Another futuristic space mmo. And in eve scouts would be more like frigates. Least armor, fastest speeds and worst hit detection. How exactly is a scout to be played? Because dust says its a speed based character made for infiltrating. If u aren't supposed to be able to close in on an enemy why have shotguns and smg? Lets just play we all shoot at each other with AR and snipers from 50m and above. Sound good to the COD kings?
*edit* btw most medieval mmos also give a speed reduction for heavier armor... |
Heligg
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Longshot Ravenwood wrote:Longshot Ravenwood wrote:I'm sorry you got used to using to playing as a gun wielding ballerina capable of running faster than hit detection before the devs fixed it.
Please start using the suit for what it was designed for and provide feedback regarding that. Scouts suits are designed to have a reduced stature & resulting hitbox when compared to other suits which makes them harder to sight on and hit at a distance. They also have a higher speed to allow them to move more quickly on the field for repositioning and hacking while enemy troops are being engaged by other units on the battlefield. The speed can give them an edge in close combat if they take advantage of their surroundings & utilize high damage short range weapons (like the shotgun). That said, I use the dragonfly with a mass driver for everything, because I can. I don't have a very high survival rate but, seriously -- explosions.
here is the problem , they are " harder to sight on and hit at a distance" but also "speed can give them an edge in close combat" .You see how the two don't match?. So scout is good with a sniper rifle but when you want to go close combat you necessarily have to backstab or you die. So with shield getting reduced from t1 to t2 i will die even more(edit: and with the proto AR of doom, even more). And i dont like to die |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
666
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:
u can fit more high end gear isnt that enough of an advantage for ppl? or do ppl srsly need a huge crutch?
It is not a crutch so much as a concept that a number of FPS players just can't seem wrap their heads around.
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Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Heligg wrote:Longshot Ravenwood wrote:Longshot Ravenwood wrote:I'm sorry you got used to using to playing as a gun wielding ballerina capable of running faster than hit detection before the devs fixed it.
Please start using the suit for what it was designed for and provide feedback regarding that. Scouts suits are designed to have a reduced stature & resulting hitbox when compared to other suits which makes them harder to sight on and hit at a distance. They also have a higher speed to allow them to move more quickly on the field for repositioning and hacking while enemy troops are being engaged by other units on the battlefield. The speed can give them an edge in close combat if they take advantage of their surroundings & utilize high damage short range weapons (like the shotgun). That said, I use the dragonfly with a mass driver for everything, because I can. I don't have a very high survival rate but, seriously -- explosions. here is the problem , they are " harder to sight on and hit at a distance" but also "speed can give them an edge in close combat" .You see how the two don't match?. So scout is good with a sniper rifle but when you want to go close combat you necessarily have to backstab or you die. So with shield getting reduced from t1 to t2 i will die even more(edit: and with the proto AR of doom, even more). And i dont like to die They fit together quite nicely. The speed helps them close in without being sniped, particularly when using the terrain to get into the kill range for one of their targets.
My primary close combat weapon on my alt is the scrambler pistol. 6 shots at 70 ehp per shot gives a solid 420 points of damage before a reload (unmodified) if you know where you're putting the rounds. Immediate damage output has more potential than an AR, but requires better handling. Also, people rage when they're shot to death with a scrambler pistol. Shoot merc in the faceplate repeatedly. Collect tears to reload scrambler pistol. Move on. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
A fully protoed out scout suit will have crud tonns more HP after you factor fits into it. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
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Posted - 2012.10.10 21:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A fully protoed out scout suit will have crud tonns more HP after you factor fits into it. Thanks for pointing that out IWS, something I completely forgot from when I would play EVE often...
There's "getting into the ship" then there's "being able to fit and fly it".
The same's true here. If you want more surivablity, skill your shield & armor skills for the 25% bonus to HP & access to the shield and armor modules that will keep you alive. it's a lot cheaper than getting a proto suit.
By that same token dumping points into getting an advanced weapon will often help more than bridging the gap to a proto weapon if you spread the extra points around into skills to help your survivability. |
Bubbles moon
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.10.10 22:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ky'noke Vyrus wrote:In eve as u skill into new ships the get better, more specialized. Why would u want that in an MMOFPS. just let them be able to fit better weapons and gear
They are able to fit better gear. You can't fit prototype weapons and armor and damage mods on anything less than advanced, it's just a fact.
You get better suits becuase of how much powergrid and CPU they give you.
Trust me the difference between militia, and prototype suits WITH prototype mods. The tech 2 Assault suit has about with skills 300 shields. With a prototype tech 2 Assault you can fit 3 shield extender for just about 600 shield hp. Then you can equip more shield recharge. On top of that you get 2 equipment slots, and 3 lows. You could give your self more armor then heal yourself with a nanohive while waiting your shields goes back up to 600.
Not to mention some of the prototype weaons are amazing. The proto mass driver has crazy large radius. With skills it's 16m. That's crazy.
You can't just rush right to prototype suits in dust. You need to focus on support skills 1st. Without support skills you're just waiting an expensive suit that will get owned by militia gear. But if you spec into it you can serious put down some hurt.
4 proto damage weapon mods with a forge gun. My god that's a 40% increase in damage on such a large amount. Think forge guns are underpowered? Same with the HMG with plus 40% damage. Think about that. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.10.11 05:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
They're trying to see if the extra Power Grid and CPU, as well as slots, are enough benefit for the advanced suit over the militia ones.
Personally, I think they need at least a little improvement, and definitely an improvement in other stats like HP regen or speed or precision. |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
326
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Posted - 2012.10.11 07:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Heligg wrote:So i'll spend 2M Sp to put a drop uplink , take a sniper and prey that a militia doesn't kill me? wtf seriously.
And that, is it a joke? : t1: shield 90 , armor 100 t2: shield 70 , armor 130 SA: shield 90 , armor 100 SB: shield 70 , armor 130 vk0: shield 90 , armor 100 vk1: shield 70 , armor 130
And btw the 'draft saved' message sucks, it moves my screen every 5 sec.
Did you look at the CPU and PG? |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
71
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Posted - 2012.10.11 07:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:The hp differences between standard, adv, and proto were removed last build. CCP did not intend for people to upgrade to get more hp. Fitting more/better modules is the reason for the better suits. you still get more HP by getting better suits because you are able to to fit more HP on them.
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Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2012.10.11 07:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Guy has a point regarding mobility... Low HP yes. Slow dodging movement. Doesnt make sense. Scouts move like heavies on lateral movements. Just dumb. "Hey, i can run forward fast but i right or left ? i'm suddenly a brick wall....-¦
And now hit detection is fixed. Unless slow straf is a crappy part of the fix, you wouldnt have any reason to complain about cheat or dance if it's raised again. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2012.10.11 08:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Guy has a point regarding mobility... Low HP yes. Slow dodging movement. Doesnt make sense. Scouts move like heavies on lateral movements. Just dumb. "Hey, i can run forward fast but i right or left ? i'm suddenly a brick wall....-¦
And now hit detection is fixed. Unless slow straf is a crappy part of the fix, you wouldnt have any reason to complain about cheat or dance if it's raised again.
It works. Try using shotgun with sprinting past the close range enemy, then aim for a split second on opponent (preferably upper torso), then sprint past the bogey again. Repeat.
Sure, it's not easy but what else would you expect for a fight? |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2012.10.11 08:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bubbles moon wrote: They are able to fit better gear. You can't fit prototype weapons and armor and damage mods on anything less than advanced, it's just a fact.
You get better suits becuase of how much powergrid and CPU they give you.
Trust me the difference between militia, and prototype suits WITH prototype mods. The tech 2 Assault suit has about with skills 300 shields. With a prototype tech 2 Assault you can fit 3 shield extender for just about 600 shield hp. Then you can equip more shield recharge. On top of that you get 2 equipment slots, and 3 lows. You could give your self more armor then heal yourself with a nanohive while waiting your shields goes back up to 600.
Not to mention some of the prototype weaons are amazing. The proto mass driver has crazy large radius. With skills it's 16m. That's crazy.
You can't just rush right to prototype suits in dust. You need to focus on support skills 1st. Without support skills you're just waiting an expensive suit that will get owned by militia gear. But if you spec into it you can serious put down some hurt.
4 proto damage weapon mods with a forge gun. My god that's a 40% increase in damage on such a large amount. Think forge guns are underpowered? Same with the HMG with plus 40% damage. Think about that.
^ Oh and what this guy said +1 |
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