DUST Search - Do You Want Balance or Realism?

Bosse Grahn wrote:

Everyone on here is arguing their own point's on how things should work. It seems the main disconnect is that half of you want game balance and fairness, and half of you want realism.

For example:

AR's are OP

Argument 1: AR are supposed to be great at all ranges, so there is no need for a nerf!

Argument 2: Making AR dominate all ranges makes it pointless to use anything else! In which case, why do we even have other weapons?!

EVE SP system should be implemented

Argument 1: The more you play the further ahead you should get, that's only fair to the grinders! Don't put it in!

Argument 2: Players who have a life outside of Dust will fall behind in no time with the current system! They won't stand a chance since they will never come close to the SP cap while players who grind and boost will be rolling in SP!

Swarm Launchers should lock onto dropsuit signatures that are not dampened enough

Argument 1: No way, we tried that and AV units would camp spawns and it was dangerous to go out into the open!

Argument 2: If you are able to shoot down swarm missiles and get a warning when ever you are locked-on to, it would give AV units a permanent purpose on the field besides a quick switch option for dealing with vehicles! As long as their signature isn't dampened too much for the launcher to detect, it makes no sense for them to not be able to not lock onto them.

I'm not asking to debate these topics here, what I want to know is: What is it that you want?

Do you want this game to be as properly balanced and functional as possible and only be as realistic as that allows?

Or do you want this game to be as realistic as possible, and only as balanced as that allows?

You need to choose one, because bickering about each individual issue is pointless unless you first decide which way you are wanting this game to go. Realism or balance, they don't always go hand in hand so you need to choose one.

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Bosse Grahn 90	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:26:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone on here is arguing their own point's on how things should work. It seems the main disconnect is that half of you want game balance and fairness, and half of you want realism. For example: AR's are OP Argument 1: AR are supposed to be great at all ranges, so there is no need for a nerf! Argument 2: Making AR dominate all ranges makes it pointless to use anything else! In which case, why do we even have other weapons?! EVE SP system should be implemented Argument 1: The more you play the further ahead you should get, that's only fair to the grinders! Don't put it in! Argument 2: Players who have a life outside of Dust will fall behind in no time with the current system! They won't stand a chance since they will never come close to the SP cap while players who grind and boost will be rolling in SP! Swarm Launchers should lock onto dropsuit signatures that are not dampened enough Argument 1: No way, we tried that and AV units would camp spawns and it was dangerous to go out into the open! Argument 2: If you are able to shoot down swarm missiles and get a warning when ever you are locked-on to, it would give AV units a permanent purpose on the field besides a quick switch option for dealing with vehicles! As long as their signature isn't dampened too much for the launcher to detect, it makes no sense for them to not be able to not lock onto them. I'm not asking to debate these topics here, what I want to know is: What is it that you want? Do you want this game to be as properly balanced and functional as possible and only be as realistic as that allows? Or do you want this game to be as realistic as possible, and only as balanced as that allows? You need to choose one, because bickering about each individual issue is pointless unless you first decide which way you are wanting this game to go. Realism or balance, they don't always go hand in hand so you need to choose one.
Mira Adari Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:41:00 - [2] - Quote Balance above all. Especially in a cooperative multiplayer game. The game is supposed to be fair and fun. Realism is irrelevant.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:44:00 - [3] - Quote Bosse Grahn wrote: Swarm Launchers should lock onto dropsuit signatures that are not dampened enough Argument 1: No way, we tried that and AV units would camp spawns and it was dangerous to go out into the open! We actually never tried it. At one point swarms just did insane damage to anything that moves, which is a lot different from being able to lock on to a specific target. Carry on.
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:45:00 - [4] - Quote and they seem to be putting universe cohesion over everything else too. if it's in EvE it doesnt HAVE to be in dust you know.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:48:00 - [5] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: and they seem to be putting universe cohesion over everything else too. if it's in EvE it doesnt HAVE to be in dust you know. No, but it makes sense, and really stands out to former and future EVE players. I for one LOVE that attention to detail, and hope we get boat loads more of it.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:49:00 - [6] - Quote Most games the AR is king in every role and ther is very little reason to use other weapons in general simply because the other weapons require certain enviroments like CQC areas which the AR is still good in because its an all rounder As for the SP system if its EVE style you cant boost it up and no lifes and grinders will still be at the same SP lvl as someone who works a job and has a familiy if they started at the same time, if you start the game later tho you will be behind SP wise and tech will never catch up to someone who started earlier than you but you could still specialize into something different most likely and be better than them in that area SL are classed as AV, dont want the SL to be able to kill anything that moves like a few builds ago, maybe heavy more vulnerable to it but overall wouldnt matter to the scouts or assaults so really its a no go area
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:50:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Cpl Quartz wrote: and they seem to be putting universe cohesion over everything else too. if it's in EvE it doesnt HAVE to be in dust you know. No, but it makes sense, and really stands out to former and future EVE players. I for one LOVE that attention to detail, and hope we get boat loads more of it. my point is that gamplay over everything else. nothing else should be higher.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:55:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Bosse Grahn wrote: Swarm Launchers should lock onto dropsuit signatures that are not dampened enough Argument 1: No way, we tried that and AV units would camp spawns and it was dangerous to go out into the open! We actually never tried it. At one point swarms just did insane damage to anything that moves, which is a lot different from being able to lock on to a specific target. Carry on. True. We never had a lock on only feature for the launcher. But it had insane amount of splash damage several builds ago which meant you didn't need to lock into anything to kill it.
Bosse Grahn 90	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:56:00 - [9] - Quote Mira Adari wrote: Balance above all. Especially in a cooperative multiplayer game. The game is supposed to be fair and fun. Realism is irrelevant. I have to agree. I wouldn't say that realism is totally irrelevant, we don't want Halo jumping, but I think balance needs to be the focus above all else.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:59:00 - [10] - Quote Realism means an XM-25 from real life will kill squads of any unfortunates using other weapons. Balance means we ended up with a single shot mass driver that does so so "damage". Realism means a Galil MAR with silicone oiled bullets will terminate AR users with lower fire rates. Balance means we end up with an SMG that can fire bullets that "travel" twenty yards then get tired. Realism means I can hit the moon with a laser. Balance means a laser that barely outdistances or out ranges an AR? Lasers need a range and damage buff.

Bosse Grahn 90	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:00:00 - [11] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Bosse Grahn wrote: Swarm Launchers should lock onto dropsuit signatures that are not dampened enough Argument 1: No way, we tried that and AV units would camp spawns and it was dangerous to go out into the open! We actually never tried it. At one point swarms just did insane damage to anything that moves, which is a lot different from being able to lock on to a specific target. Carry on. True. We never had a lock on only feature for the launcher. But it had insane amount of splash damage several builds ago which meant you didn't need to lock into anything to kill it. I said that because I read a thread where they asked why dropsuits couldn't be locked on to and someone said that it was an issue back in the "reclaimation" (or something that started with an "R"...) build. I wouldn't know myself, haven't been around that long.
TiMeSpLiT--TeR Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 326	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:01:00 - [12] - Quote AR advantages are Range, Higher Clip and, Ammo capacity. Drawbacks should be CPU and PG, they should be restricted for advance defensive equipment if AR is going to be powerful in damage. Balance should be implemented. That's why, we have to argue things in balance instead of reasoning in realism. Sub-M should have higher clip, restricted to ammo capacity if it deals a lot of damage and higher rate of fire. But, they should not be limited to advance defensive equipment. What I notice in my gameplay is that it all depends on Defensive vs Offensive tactics. I use militia gear, but I have stronger defensive equipment. I'm more in favor of Defense than being Offensive on this game.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:07:00 - [13] - Quote One word Science Fiction That is all.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:08:00 - [14] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: True. We never had a lock on only feature for the launcher. But it had insane amount of splash damage several builds ago which meant you didn't need to lock into anything to kill it. I was there, I remember. That's why it should have a lock on feature vs dropsuits. That way you'd have to actually stick your neck out in the open long enough to attain a lock (longer than vs vehicles), allowing you to actually fight infantry with it. The splash damage would need tweaking, and they'd have to impact around the dropsuit, rarely actually getting a direct hit except maybe on a heavy. It's just stupid right now, it makes no sense for swarm launchers to do NOTHING vs infantry. I get that it was an emergency fix that was desperately needed, I just hope CCP hasn't forgotten that SLs still need some love.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:15:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: One word Science Fiction That is all. Thats the problem. When I was a kid Science Fiction was Kirk calling to be beamed up on a communicator and now my kids are calling on a cell phone to have Pizza Hut beam up a hot pizza. A lot of those someday weapons are being looked at right now and some of them went from being someday to being ho hum kill more tangoes like the XM-25 Punisher.
Michael Cratar Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 179	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:21:00 - [16] - Quote My only complaints about the the balancing and realism is that ar should have a good stability but it should deteriorate as you hold down the trigger. I never was in the military but i do know it is difficult to just full auto and keep your aim steady. Also the nova knifes need a bit of a boost with the charging speed. I know they are meant for assasinations but its kinda hard to do that without cloaking and outside of that they are kinda useless. Other than that, honestly I think this game is coming along nicely.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 443	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:23:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: One word Science Fiction That is all. Thats two words.
Carl Hauser Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 46	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:40:00 - [18] - Quote In my opinion you need both to a certain degree in a game where you want to have fun. So i would say none above the other but a good mixture.
Bosse Grahn 90	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:45:00 - [19] - Quote Carl Hauser wrote: In my opinion you need both to a certain degree in a game where you want to have fun. So i would say none above the other but a good mixture. I can agree to that, but my point is that in some cases you will have to sacrifice one for the other, and people need to decide which is going to be sacrificed in those instances. If the game is going to function in a balanced manner then balance has to be the focus. If people would prefer things to square with logic at all costs, then balance is going to have to be sacrificed at times, which throws off the gameplay.
Beda Ardishapur Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2012.10.09 13:54:00 - [20] - Quote Normally I go for realism but in a FPS like this its got to be balance or no one will play it. Worst case the few that do play it all are the same class, you will get the battlefield all sniper team problem.

Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 319	Posted - 2012.10.09 14:03:00 - [21] - Quote Balance should be the main goal. If you want realism, join the military. When balance has been achieved, tweak for what realism you can get.
Carl Hauser Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 46	Posted - 2012.10.09 14:04:00 - [22] - Quote Bosse Grahn wrote: Carl Hauser wrote: In my opinion you need both to a certain degree in a game where you want to have fun. So i would say none above the other but a good mixture. I can agree to that, but my point is that in some cases you will have to sacrifice one for the other, and people need to decide which is going to be sacrificed in those instances. If the game is going to function in a balanced manner then balance has to be the focus. If people would prefer things to square with logic at all costs, then balance is going to have to be sacrificed at times, which throws off the gameplay. Well I got your point so I would say balance is more important than realism.
Jonny Moreau Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 13	Posted - 2012.10.09 16:38:00 - [23] - Quote Argument 1 (too much balance): My railgun tank puts a 200 pound piece of tungsten carbide traveling at 600 mph into the ground an inch in front of you and you take 200 damage Argument 2 (realism): My railgun fires the same round into a hillside that you are hiding behind and you are buried in the in the resulting landslide Argument 3 (good balance): I put the round into the ground within 2 meters you die or take 700 dmg and fly crossmap
Threvis Valan Doomheim 40	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:19:00 - [24] - Quote Mira Adari wrote: Balance above all. Especially in a cooperative multiplayer game. The game is supposed to be fair and fun. Realism is irrelevant. Tend to agree here. we can only have so much realism in a futuristic space game. balance rules in online multiplayer anyway. everything needs counters and limits. for the record I think CCP has done a great job of balancing so far. they just need to keep up the good work with things like the swarms .vs. dropships, novaknife damage, the tactical AR issue and a few other things. balance is totally priority.
Ludwig Van Beatdropin Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 195	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:50:00 - [25] - Quote I want to play something that is fun
Shiro Mokuzan GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 106	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:59:00 - [26] - Quote There should be a balance between realism/setting consistency and balance/gameplay, but I lean toward the former more than the latter.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.10.09 22:01:00 - [27] - Quote Neither, thank you. I wanted to play an EVE Universe game because I was hoping for something... unfair.
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.10.09 22:08:00 - [28] - Quote Bosse Grahn wrote: Everyone on here is arguing their own point's on how things should work. It seems the main disconnect is that half of you want game balance and fairness, and half of you want realism. For example: AR's are OP Argument 1: AR are supposed to be great at all ranges, so there is no need for a nerf! Argument 2: Making AR dominate all ranges makes it pointless to use anything else! In which case, why do we even have other weapons?! EVE SP system should be implemented Argument 1: The more you play the further ahead you should get, that's only fair to the grinders! Don't put it in! Argument 2: Players who have a life outside of Dust will fall behind in no time with the current system! They won't stand a chance since they will never come close to the SP cap while players who grind and boost will be rolling in SP! Swarm Launchers should lock onto dropsuit signatures that are not dampened enough Argument 1: No way, we tried that and AV units would camp spawns and it was dangerous to go out into the open! Argument 2: If you are able to shoot down swarm missiles and get a warning when ever you are locked-on to, it would give AV units a permanent purpose on the field besides a quick switch option for dealing with vehicles! As long as their signature isn't dampened too much for the launcher to detect, it makes no sense for them to not be able to not lock onto them. I'm not asking to debate these topics here, what I want to know is: What is it that you want? Do you want this game to be as properly balanced and functional as possible and only be as realistic as that allows? Or do you want this game to be as realistic as possible, and only as balanced as that allows? You need to choose one, because bickering about each individual issue is pointless unless you first decide which way you are wanting this game to go. Realism or balance, they don't always go hand in hand so you need to choose one. Actually i want fun . But it seems to have been removed this build.
D3aTH D3alER54 The Southern Legion 130	Posted - 2012.10.09 22:35:00 - [29] - Quote Balance!! What's the point of it being realistic if it's no fun? E.G Operation flashpoint, so realistic but yet no fun... But they should really balance the 2 for it to be a perfect mix.
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.09 22:38:00 - [30] - Quote Aighun wrote: Neither, thank you. I wanted to play an EVE Universe game because I was hoping for something... unfair. last tank build was something of a gaming nirvana to you then?



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