if you are picked off then you should grab a rifle and scan the mountains and buildings

This point is highlighted but I want to point out that you got the reason for the ease of use correct but not entirely complete.

No sway is a problem. But the bigger problem is lack of legitimate recoil. Sure, your rifle bounces up. But it returns to the -exact same spot- making follow up shots far too easy. If anything needs to be changed about sniper rifles, it is this. Travel time for shots would be nice. More sway would be nice. But recoil actually mattering is a must. Sniping needs to be at least somewhat challenging to do well. Like the OP said. It is far too easy.

I suspect once gunships and fighters are buzzing around, we snipers will be scared squirrels hiding and diving and running to cover more than camping and plinking.

Now onto the overheating thing, As it is a feasable thing, you seem to not realize that the sniper rifles are semi automatic, and I think the last time a semi automatic rifle overheated was never, now this isnt COD or BF3 but the recoil in BF3 and COD (here come the trolls) makes sniping alot harder as it flips the scope sight up on purpose making it harder to refind your target thus making you have to manage alot more.

I do want to suggest that forcing you to have a designated spotter (ie someone with like sensing binocs that have to scan targets for you as compared to being able to sweep and see targets would make the sniper a harder class to be, like making the sniper class have very short range sensors and making it so someone else has to assist you, there fore also giving you protection and making teamwork happen instead of people just sitting around not really gaining any skill playing as a sniper class)

tl;dr

One more question.

In your perception what are the numbers as which a sniper would be "properly balanced".
In other words what should the average per match numerical value, for the average sniper, be for the following.

• KDR
• WP
• ISK
• ISK Cost per fit
• Minimum SP investment to be effective
• Median SP investment (to be optimal be still below top Meta)
• Top Flight SP investment (to be among the best of the best)
• How long (in real time hours played) before a player should expect to be an effective sniper

To reiterate, above I am asking for the number that in your perception would be ideal, not an assessment of the numbers as they stand now.

a Sniper gaining a huge tacnet signature when the fire then it dies down would be good, players would only notice if they are looking or willing to use thier buddies as bait.

making standing sway a bit more noticable would be good but dont touch crouching sway.

I've sniped, and I've played a logi. I can tell you, having been on both sides (and as someone who is average- a 2.5 kdr last build) if I am a sniper, any time an opponent is under 50m an AR owns me. Especially because one shot will most likely not kill the opponent, coupled with the fact that as soon as you're hit once by an AR, your scope goes bat**** crazy, and you have little hope for hitting your target again. If I'm a logi and a sniper is under 50m, he's dead. I have never once died to a sniper at that distance. In fact, it's laughable when they keep shooting at me.

Your point about killing in two shots. Well, for a sniper, they should be able to kill in one shot, but as it is, most snipers will need to take 2-4 shots for an assault. That's too nerfed, imho, but I'll live with it if I decide to go back to sniping. A further nerf? I think that's a bit extreme.

And your point is....? Not trying to be a jerk, but that is the role of a sniper. Anywhere. Trying not to be seen and take out guys who have no idea where the sniper is. That's the point. The argument that it makes it "less fun" for infantry is a bit silly. People die in battle, and it's not fun, but that's part of the game. Not to mention, when I run a logi, I maybe die once a match to a sniper. I mean, if people are standing out in the open they deserved to be shot. They're really not a problem, coming from someone who plays infantry.

Sniper play is fine and does not need to be changed. The nerf on this build is a happy medium between what you want and what snipers want. I'd say thank CCP and leave it at that.

I play as a frontline sniper and a "camping one" snipers are supposed to be campers and nerfing this because being shot at is no fun is ridiculous maybe we should nerf ARs because its no fun being shot at by them?

Yeah, you're totally right about ISK. But if you want to earn war points, there are a lot of easier ways to do it. It's not overpowered from that standpoint. KDR? Yeah, but not war points, which is another reason I don't think it's OP.

About standing around- anecdotal as well, so it's not something to go back and forth over, but you play sniper and I have been playing logi, and I can tell you that I rarely get sniped. I guess I don't understand how it's that much of a problem if I (and average player) haven't run into it being annoying.

Yes, your Fivetimes toon plays as a sniper. But there are some on this forum who have alts, and use those alts as a means of nerfing weapons they eventually will not play come launch. This is the EVE universe, after all. Not outright accusing you, but I'm not ruling it out. You wanted a nerf last build, but now, for some reason, that wasn't enough, even though you say you play as a sniper. That seems strange to me....

But you didn't address my biggest point: Snipers do not ruin gameplay. Having too many snipers on a team has never won a game, thus the sniper is not OP. If it was OP like other things people have complained about, the snipers would be the deciding factor in most battles (see HAV's, etc), but they're not. And in fact, the number of snipers is directly proportional to how likely a team is to lose. A couple of good snipers on a team full of good infantry can do well, but a team full of good snipers will lose every time. I think we can both agree on that. Anyway, all of this means that snipers are not OP.

So, you agree that snipers lag behind in war points? Good, I think we're getting somewhere. You can get way more war points on the ground hacking objectives, turrets, CRU's, Depots, reviving, repairing, and getting an occasional kill than you can sitting up on a hill taking pot shots.

All of that being said, we know (as CCP has stated) that war points, not number of kills, is what determines both ISK and SP. Therefore, because snipers get less war points, as we both have said, then snipers will get less SP and less ISK. So the ease at which someone can snipe is more than made up by the fact that they won't get much in return. Thus, it's pretty balanced (and by the way, I'm not sure if you're talking about ISK or SP, in terms of being cheap, but my logi build costs about the same as my sniper build, and as far as SP goes, it's the same as assault, to where you can't level up damage until you spec the sway- AR's being spray).

So one shotting is less common. Agreed. If they went with a further nerf, then snipers wouldn't get any kills at all. If we know it takes at least 2 shots to kill most infantry, and after the first shot the sway is so bad that you can't get off another, then 99% percent of the snipers, including myself, would never get a kill.

I need to give CCP more respect? You're the one making up the thread. Scratching my head on that comment.

And yes, they have the ability to track stats, and I'm pretty certain those stats show that the sniper is not OP. Maybe they don't. I've been wrong before and will be wrong again, but you're saying you're a sniper and it's too hard for infantry. I'm saying I play half the time as infantry, and it hasn't been a problem for me. Anecdotal on both our parts, so it's a wash I guess.

It's just strange that I've only seen 2 threads about sniping being too poweful, and they both come from you. If you were an AR user, it wouldn't be that strange, but you're the first person to come on here and ask- no beg- for a nerf for the role that you play, not once, but twice. CCP nerfed it, which is what you wanted, and now you're calling for another nerf. You say you're playing as a sniper. I have no doubt. But the question is, will you be playing as a sniper come launch? Can you see how strange this might look from a casual observer's point of view? Asking for a second nerf after there already has been one for the gun that you use? I guess I just don't get it. Either you're the most benevolent gamer I've ever come in contact with, or something is afoot.

the only thing that is being QQed is OP and whining about how sniping is ruining the fun for him.