DUST Search - >>> Ye Olde SP System <<<

Re-FLeX wrote:

Daxxis KANNAH wrote:

Re-FLeX wrote:

Corban Lahnder wrote:

Re-FLeX wrote:

Please just scrap this hybrid Skill point system you guys currently have in the beta of Dust514, as some of you might know the Skill planning in Eve is much and much better then this ****** character progression we have right now.

Don't make the Game about who gets the most skill points = 1337 status, make it about getting the ISK!

I've been telling myself this game would be so much better off with the skill planning that Eve has and now its time for you guys to admit it, CCP has been tweaking around and nerfing and boosting the skill gain in the last couple of months and i had enough.

If they implement the SP system they have in Eve there wouldn't be a grind for SP, there wouldn't be boosting for SP, there wouldn't be this sooo unoriginal Kill = points = character progression ripoff system.

The Skill planning in Eve is what brings back the daily players to train their pilots (Together with all the other **** you can do in that game) Why NOT put it in Dust? like seriously my mind is blown right now.

TL;DR Just copy/paste the SP/Skill planning system from EVE into Dust already!

Dust is a radically different game from eve.

They would never toss the skill based skilling system they currently have.

Nor should they. You want to loose the shooter crowd? Dont award them for being good FPS players.

Eve skill system doesn't work in dust.

The end.

No reward for the shooter crowd?

It seems to me some of you casuals have it all wrong, sp isn't meant to be the reward it's a progression, the isk,sovereighnty control of space having large functional alliances with wealth is the reward here. You all are too ignorant to see this and have played too many modern shooters that blurr your vision of what i think this game should go towards.

So you want to build a whole new genre into the universe, have it populated but not cater to the crowd who will make it vibrant??? I am sure many FPS fans dont care many of those things you listed and then calling them ignorant kind of defeats the purpose of what CCP is trying to do.

Just see that a compromise has to be made to grow this aspect and what the company is trying to do is a good thing for the players that only want to be involved on this level.

Hope I am not way off but that is how I read your post and demeaning the other side doesnt help the process at all.

On topic - I like the combination, I think like others you shouldnt have to pay for boosters, if you want a boost you should have to use that skill (and in combat not the safe zone) to speed up progression in that skill. I also dont have a problem with a weekly cap. It is a compromise to tie the game back to EVE and should be see as such.

Kind of new to this MMO stuff but the project is very exciting and I like what I've see so far.

See all of you are ignorant....

I'm not talking about a whole new genre to build into this ''universe'' you are talking about, im talking about implementing a new way of gaining SP.

Also the funny part about this post is that you type ''on topic-'' but you actually go off topic.


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Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:59:00 - [1] - Quote ENOUGH! I could take it either way, but with all of this squabbling going on the Bosse has to step in. I can't even stand to read my way through all of these posts with all of this pathetic bickering going on. Both systems have their merits. The current system IS unfair to people who will get left behind because they can't play 24/7. The EVE system IS a little to slow paced for a FPS audience. How about you guys grow a pair (ladies are excluded from growing a set of dangalies) and compromise? This game has to be as fair for everyone as possible to reach the largest audience, so how about this: 1. Implement the EVE system 2. Allow players to gain small SP bonuses at the end of each battle that go towards the skill you are training so FPS players can feel better that they are working towards a goal instead of just playing for ISK and victory. Still scale the SP to how well you did in battle, but reduce the amount *significantly* and remove the cap. This way those of you who play all of the time are still getting to work on improving your character, but those of you who can't play all of the time still get to play without worrying that all of your friends are getting light years ahead of you. in this way both sides give a little for the better of all. People who play all of the time progress more slowly, but the other people aren't entirely left behind. And those who don't play all of the time don't progress as fast, but they will still be within a decent range of where their friends/squad mates are. As for new players, I see no reason why doing things this way wouldn't be easy enough for them to grasp if you believe they can already understand the insanely huge menu system and skill system we are dealing with now. EDIT: If someone already mentioned this please forgive me, I couldn't stand to read through all the whining.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 09:22:00 - [2] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Actually, i'd say that the current system is more or less the way to go. I played a lot less than many of my teammates on this build since it started and i only have 250K SP less than them. And this number have to take into account that there was monday as a "bonus day". This anti-grind system, no matter how hard some people criticize it is not that bad. It helps to avoid a huge gap to be created between players with very different time to invest in the game and keeps EVE and Dust on a more or less even field regarding shared skills while still allowing a reward for biggest gamer. May not be perfect as biggest player are reaching the cap in a few days and can get frustrated but if they absolutely want to maintain this active SP thing, it's "better". Personnaly, i always rooted for a Passive SP system only. Takes away the grinding aspect. Kills the run for WP in game in order to get more SP wich would help to favor teamplay imo. But i think it's now to late to go back. Imagine how hard people would QQ on getting no bonus SP for their 7 hours play per day. And for players who sometimes have to miss a week or two at a time? Or only get to play a couple of hour two or three days a week? People live busy lives, some far busier than others. I think going with an EVE SP system with a small SP bonus based on your performance at the end of battle and no SP cap is the way to go. Grinders who are intent on grinding as much as they can will be able to do so, but without being able to get too very much further ahead than the rest of us. Grinding is a passion for those people, so as long as you let them grind and stay a little ways ahead of the pack they might whine a bit but they'll manage. For most of them they mainly want the bragging rights of being ahead of everyone else. Casual players will be able to keep up with the game because it's paced in a way that allows them to have a life outside of Dust without being left behind inside Dust. That's the biggest issue there, these gamers want to be able to be a part of this without having to dedicate half of their life to it. And sometimes they want to play other games for a bit, but don't want to be left behind when they come back. I'm telling you, EVE SP system/Small performance based SP bonus/No SP cap would be a good compromise to settle on that would let everyone get a little of what they want without one side giving up everything they want.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 12:58:00 - [3] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: ENOUGH! I could take it either way, but with all of this squabbling going on the Bosse has to step in. I can't even stand to read my way through all of these posts with all of this pathetic bickering going on. Both systems have their merits. The current system IS unfair to people who will get left behind because they can't play 24/7. LOLWUT? and how is EVE time based system allowing newbies to catch up when they will ALWAYS be left behind with NO WAY to close the gap? an active system allows someone who starts months later to catch up to a casual player who had a headstart, EVE time based system does not allow this the gap will always be a FIXED amount why is that so hard for some to understand? this is a FPS it needs active progression more than passive the skillcap is in place for 24/7 players once thts reached passive SP will be the thing ppl seem to forget that there will be PASSIVE boosters as well if u cant play often slap on a passive booster. EVE's system punishes those who dont join the game on day 1. And boosters cost AUR, which means people will have to pay cash to catch up. If you recall, the whole point of this is to NOT be a pay to win game. If you have to pay cash in order to keep up with the rest, that might as well be pay to win because others who pay cash will be WAY ahead of those who don't and have en ENORMOUS advantage. I've been against boosters costing AUR from the beginning. No matter how you build the system, the grinders and especially those grinders who use boosters will be the ones with the best gear and therefore be the most likely to do the best in battle. That's called winning. And if you have to pay cash to do so, that's called "PAY TO WIN". Of course other players have a chance to take down the top players with skill, but when you have 2 players of equal skill facing each other, the one with the best gear wins no matter what you do. Unless your whole squad gangs up on him. Of course his squad will be doing the same to you, so that's not even an issue here. You can try to zero in on a single enemy all you want, but when they have a squad shooting at your head while you are doing it you are screwed, and he's just going to respawn again so there's really no point. To my SP point, giving everyone a large steady passive SP gain and only providing a small SP bonus at the end of battle slows the rate at which those who play constantly can pull ahead of the rest who don't. Yes there will be a difference between new players and veterans, but that only makes sense. 2 people who start at the same time, 1 grinder and 1 casual gamer, on this SP system I have proposed will grow more evenly and have a smaller gap over time than they would with the current system. This system allows you to grind until you hit a cap, then just wait for the cap to pass and do it again. Those who don't play often will never get close to that cap and those who play constantly will pull ahead in no time at all. If you make the gross majority of the SP you will get by playing this game passive, that gap will grow much more slowly. I'm sorry you feel it's only right that people should get to dominate other players because they have the time to cap out the SP, but it's not fair to others. YES, this is a FPS game. NO, this is not all of the other FPS games you've played before. Just because you can get ahead by playing constantly in other shooters doesn't mean you should be able to in this one. And for the record, I'm an FPS player all the way. In fact I only play PS3, I don't do computer gaming anymore. I'd never even heard of EVE before I heard about Dust. I just happen to be a gamer who thinks that fairness should trump spoiled COD prestige fans who think that they should get all of the rewards and have all of the advantages just because they have the most time to play. EDIT: Btw, I never said that my version of the EVE system would allow casual gamers to catch up with grinders. The whole point was to slow the growing gap. The grinders can earn their gap over the other players over time on my system, but with the current one it will take no time at all.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 13:15:00 - [4] - Quote Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg wrote: I don't like the idea of making the SP gain passive. Like others have said here people like to win, but they also like to progress. The hard cap is pretty painful, but it hasn't stopped me playing. I'm curious about where this game is going however. The thing is I don't see the average joe FPS player out there putting up with it at all. They're all that used to being drip fed rewards every few matches that if they don't get it, they won't be sat there waiting 6 months for a new gun for example. I want people to shoot and this current system and one that purely uses time will put off the majority of FPS players out there if you ask me. Us players who are planning on playing this game will need people to shoot, so we have to cater for the cannon fodder. The other thing I find pretty bemusing is when these threads come up and people defend CCP's decision to add something like this. They used the reasoning that it makes it so nobody gets that far ahead of the curve. Well what happens 6 months to a year down the line?. New players then will be 6months behind the curve. Do we impede the whole player base then to compensate those guys for not being around?. The whole reason for this system is beyond ridiculous if you ask me. The point isn't to prevent new people 6 months down the line from being behind. The point is to slow the growing gap between 2 players that start at the same time. Also, if you read my post you would see that in my method you WOULD be gaining more SP via battle, just seriously reduced amounts. I also said remove the cap so grinders who really want it can keep chugging along without feeling gyped. You could still get ahead this way, but it would be much slower than it happens with the current method. As for current games, take COD for example, you are dripped small level gains all the way through until you prestige, and then you do it all over again. This method I proposed is not nearly as slow. With this method I proposed you gain a steady large SP sum passively and can get SP bonus's by doing well in battle. This also helps players who are having trouble because they play support roles and don't get many kills.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.11 18:24:00 - [5] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Re-FLeX wrote: Corban Lahnder wrote: Re-FLeX wrote: Please just scrap this hybrid Skill point system you guys currently have in the beta of Dust514, as some of you might know the Skill planning in Eve is much and much better then this **** character progression we have right now. Don't make the Game about who gets the most skill points = 1337 status, make it about getting the ISK! I've been telling myself this game would be so much better off with the skill planning that Eve has and now its time for you guys to admit it, CCP has been tweaking around and nerfing and boosting the skill gain in the last couple of months and i had enough. If they implement the SP system they have in Eve there wouldn't be a grind for SP, there wouldn't be boosting for SP, there wouldn't be this sooo unoriginal Kill = points = character progression ripoff system. The Skill planning in Eve is what brings back the daily players to train their pilots (Together with all the other you can do in that game) Why NOT put it in Dust? like seriously my mind is blown right now. TL;DR Just copy/paste the SP/Skill planning system from EVE into Dust already! Dust is a radically different game from eve. They would never toss the skill based skilling system they currently have. Nor should they. You want to loose the shooter crowd? Dont award them for being good FPS players. Eve skill system doesn't work in dust. The end. No reward for the shooter crowd? It seems to me some of you casuals have it all wrong, sp isn't meant to be the reward it's a progression, the isk,sovereighnty control of space having large functional alliances with wealth is the reward here*. You all are too ignorant to see this and have played too many modern shooters that blurr your vision of what i think this game should go towards. So you want to build a whole new genre into the universe, have it populated but not cater to the crowd who will make it vibrant??? I am sure many FPS fans dont care many of those things you listed and then calling them ignorant kind of defeats the purpose of what CCP is trying to do. Just see that a compromise has to be made to grow this aspect and what the company is trying to do is a good thing for the players that only want to be involved on this level. Hope I am not way off but that is how I read your post and demeaning the other side doesnt help the process at all. On topic - I like the combination, I think like others you shouldnt have to pay for boosters, if you want a boost you should have to use that skill (and in combat not the safe zone) to speed up progression in that skill. I also dont have a problem with a weekly cap. It is a compromise to tie the game back to EVE and should be see as such. Kind of new to this MMO stuff but the project is very exciting and I like what I've see so far. See all of you are ignorant.... I'm not talking about a whole new genre to build into this ''universe'' you are talking about, im talking about implementing a new way of gaining SP. Also the funny part about this post is that you type ''on topic-'' but you actually go off topic. Sigh* you guys have bickered so long that when I quote the important parts I'm down to only 2700 characters to do my own griping. Ok, first off, this is not a new universe, this is an expansion of an existing one. Second, since this is not an FPS it should not reward like an FPS, and the same goes for it's MMO aspect. The whole game is a hybrid genre, which means that the proper balance needs to be in place for it to work. Since you are basically combining MMORPG and FPS and expecting it to work, the leveling needs to be steered towards the middle of the whole thing and not just towards the FPS crowd. Yes, FPS players will be about 60-65% of the target audience, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't compromise it's system to accommodate the rest of it's audience. The FPS players need to stop feeling so snobby and entitled about being the target audience and give a little for the rest of the crowd. I'll say it again; passive SP, small SP boosts at the end of battle based on your performance, no SP cap.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.12 01:28:00 - [6] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: When was ever stated that the passive system has to take you that much longer as opposed to the active skill system? Exactly, Re-FLeX nailed it. When has anyone said that the passive system won't supply the same SP that casual play would? I proposed performance based SP boosts at the end of battle up few posts, but the passive SP system by itself wouldn't be a hindrance to casual players at all.