DUST Search - When the Scouts become ghosts

Laurent Cazaderon wrote:

Bosse Ansgar wrote:

Alright, no one want's to discuss it anywhere else, so here's a topic just for it. CCP want's to make Scout dropsuits blend into the background because they are supposed to be stealth suits. I agree wholeheartedly since their very slight speed advantage, lack of armor and shields, and low CPU/PG make them very under powered right now and they are easy pickings for anyone who gets one in their sights. But my concern is what happens next.

Everyone is going to ghost into the scenery and snipe the few who go after objectives, and ambush battles will turn into sniper wars. The only answer to the issue that I see is easy to fix and doesn't require the nerf to AR's that so many are calling for (though I still say a little recoil would be nice) and it ties in to the strafe speed and movement speed issues that many other people are complaining about.

When the scouts ghost out, we are going to need higher movement speed to find cover since we won't be able to find the sniper's hiding spot as easily. If you base it around the type of weapon equipped you pretty much solve the issue right there. AR's are supposed to dominate mid range, but right now they dominate all ranges. When the scouts ghost then the long range battles go back in their favor.

Here is what I propose:

1. Decrease the strafe speed and movement for all long range and heavy weapons, they are meant to be used at a range anyway so strafe shouldn't be as important to them. If they want to be stupid and bring a LR/heavy weapon out of it's element, then it's only right that they have a disadvantage because of it. If they end up in a CQB situation, that is what sidearms are for.

2. Increase the strafe speed and movement of all CQB/sidearm weapons significantly. AR's right now dominate CQB unless someone sneaks up on them, and that makes no sense. The whole point in having CQB weapons is to dominate CQB, not to be ineffective at all ranges unless you can surprise someone. Also cut down some of the recoil on the SMG, it's a bit ridiculous to be that erratic when the AR has no recoil whatsoever. This way when a sniper or a AV unit needs to move fast they can switch to a sidearm and haul ass to a new location.

3. Increase the sprint speed all the way around. With snipers unseen and OP ungodly accurate and high DPS AR's around every corner, we are gonna need to book it when it counts. In addition to the dangers out there, the size of these maps kind of demands an increase to sprint speed. Gameplay tends to drag on when you have to hoof it from objective to the next even if you don't factor in the snipers and AR's tucked into the hills.

I'm sure plenty of you will hate, but CCP has said plenty of times that scouts are supposed to blend into the background soon. If you have better ideas to compensate for this I'd be glad to hear them.

I can assure you that at CQB, shotgun are veeeeeeery more effective than AR

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Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.07 00:20:00 - [1] - Quote Alright, no one want's to discuss it anywhere else, so here's a topic just for it. CCP want's to make Scout dropsuits blend into the background because they are supposed to be stealth suits. I agree wholeheartedly since their very slight speed advantage, lack of armor and shields, and low CPU/PG make them very under powered right now and they are easy pickings for anyone who gets one in their sights. But my concern is what happens next. Everyone is going to ghost into the scenery and snipe the few who go after objectives, and ambush battles will turn into sniper wars. The only answer to the issue that I see is easy to fix and doesn't require the nerf to AR's that so many are calling for (though I still say a little recoil would be nice) and it ties in to the strafe speed and movement speed issues that many other people are complaining about. When the scouts ghost out, we are going to need higher movement speed to find cover since we won't be able to find the sniper's hiding spot as easily. If you base it around the type of weapon equipped you pretty much solve the issue right there. AR's are supposed to dominate mid range, but right now they dominate all ranges. When the scouts ghost then the long range battles go back in their favor. Here is what I propose: 1. Decrease the strafe speed and movement for all long range and heavy weapons, they are meant to be used at a range anyway so strafe shouldn't be as important to them. If they want to be stupid and bring a LR/heavy weapon out of it's element, then it's only right that they have a disadvantage because of it. If they end up in a CQB situation, that is what sidearms are for. 2. Increase the strafe speed and movement of all CQB/sidearm weapons significantly. AR's right now dominate CQB unless someone sneaks up on them, and that makes no sense. The whole point in having CQB weapons is to dominate CQB, not to be ineffective at all ranges unless you can surprise someone. Also cut down some of the recoil on the SMG, it's a bit ridiculous to be that erratic when the AR has no recoil whatsoever. This way when a sniper or a AV unit needs to move fast they can switch to a sidearm and haul ass to a new location. 3. Increase the sprint speed all the way around. With snipers unseen and OP ungodly accurate and high DPS AR's around every corner, we are gonna need to book it when it counts. In addition to the dangers out there, the size of these maps kind of demands an increase to sprint speed. Gameplay tends to drag on when you have to hoof it from objective to the next even if you don't factor in the snipers and AR's tucked into the hills. I'm sure plenty of you will hate, but CCP has said plenty of times that scouts are supposed to blend into the background soon. If you have better ideas to compensate for this I'd be glad to hear them.
Gunnar Holger 2	Posted - 2012.10.07 22:36:00 - [2] - Quote I likes it.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2012.10.07 23:23:00 - [3] - Quote Strafe-movement changes: Definitely. This game is billed as a tactical shooter, which means weapons need to have their niches, and not be the best at everything!. an assault rifle needs to be good at medium-range, but they need to have a very wide, wild hipfire pattern due to a "rifle" being clumsy anywhere else than standard shouldered position. Snipers, however, would need the speed reduction compensated by a rapid sidearm-swap time to keep mobile. Sprint Speed: Good Let's face it - there's no way in heck a soldier could wear all that gear without an integrated exoskeleton. In plain English, we've got artificial muscles underneath the armor. With those, the whole "stamina" thing is also whacked as the best way to use powered armor is to relax and let the suit do the work. Training could compensate our clones' current incompetence in this area. Basically, sprint speed should be a skill-first, module-later improvement system. "bio-boosters" need to be replaced with servo upgrades, but their power load happens to be in a sweet spot as is.
Ironic Kitten Mecha Trained Assault Cats 23	Posted - 2012.10.07 23:47:00 - [4] - Quote Bosse Ansgar wrote: Alright, no one want's to discuss it anywhere else, so here's a topic just for it. CCP want's to make Scout dropsuits blend into the background because they are supposed to be stealth suits. I agree wholeheartedly since their very slight speed advantage, lack of armor and shields, and low CPU/PG make them very under powered right now and they are easy pickings for anyone who gets one in their sights. But my concern is what happens next. Everyone is going to ghost into the scenery and snipe the few who go after objectives, and ambush battles will turn into sniper wars. The only answer to the issue that I see is easy to fix and doesn't require the nerf to AR's that so many are calling for (though I still say a little recoil would be nice) and it ties in to the strafe speed and movement speed issues that many other people are complaining about. When the scouts ghost out, we are going to need higher movement speed to find cover since we won't be able to find the sniper's hiding spot as easily. If you base it around the type of weapon equipped you pretty much solve the issue right there. AR's are supposed to dominate mid range, but right now they dominate all ranges. When the scouts ghost then the long range battles go back in their favor. Here is what I propose: 1. Decrease the strafe speed and movement for all long range and heavy weapons, they are meant to be used at a range anyway so strafe shouldn't be as important to them. If they want to be stupid and bring a LR/heavy weapon out of it's element, then it's only right that they have a disadvantage because of it. If they end up in a CQB situation, that is what sidearms are for. 2. Increase the strafe speed and movement of all CQB/sidearm weapons significantly. AR's right now dominate CQB unless someone sneaks up on them, and that makes no sense. The whole point in having CQB weapons is to dominate CQB, not to be ineffective at all ranges unless you can surprise someone. Also cut down some of the recoil on the SMG, it's a bit ridiculous to be that erratic when the AR has no recoil whatsoever. This way when a sniper or a AV unit needs to move fast they can switch to a sidearm and haul ass to a new location. 3. Increase the sprint speed all the way around. With snipers unseen and OP ungodly accurate and high DPS AR's around every corner, we are gonna need to book it when it counts. In addition to the dangers out there, the size of these maps kind of demands an increase to sprint speed. Gameplay tends to drag on when you have to hoof it from objective to the next even if you don't factor in the snipers and AR's tucked into the hills. I'm sure plenty of you will hate, but CCP has said plenty of times that scouts are supposed to blend into the background soon. If you have better ideas to compensate for this I'd be glad to hear them. 4. Attend Ironic Kitten's driving school (Coming SoonGäó). Proper driving technique is important when running down both Snipers & Assault Rifle user's alike. I do like the idea of being able to strafe faster with my pistol though. I'd be curious as to how an increase in sprint speeds & adjustments to strafe speeds might affect gameplay...but I'm sure I'll just keep running people over with my car when they blob or snipe on ambush.
Nicol Bolas Planeswalker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.10.07 23:49:00 - [5] - Quote This is getting on the right track.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.08 00:13:00 - [6] - Quote You've written a lengthy solution thread to a problem that could happen when something that hasn't been confirmed is added to the game at an indeterminate time? Do you think maybe you're jumping the gun a bit?
Destheren Taichi Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.10.08 00:51:00 - [7] - Quote Personally I'd rather see a cloaking device that you can fit to a drop-suit. Something that doesn't work if you're moving or shooting, though. If it's just the scout suit and it's an 'active' camouflage, then I'd suggest the same thing, it doesn't work unless you're not moving or shooting.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 01:34:00 - [8] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: You've written a lengthy solution thread to a problem that could happen when something that hasn't been confirmed is added to the game at an indeterminate time? Do you think maybe you're jumping the gun a bit? I agree that it may be jumping the gun a bit, but even if they decide against giving scout suits active camo these tweaks would level the playing field for other weapons without having to nerf the AR and tick off all of the current AR users. It would also give people people an incentive to try alternatives to the AR and make sidearms something more than the useless appendages that they are now. As it is a pistol does little more than give you a chance to pick off a softened up enemy when your main weapon is out of ammo. Which almost never happens for ARs anyway given their huge ammo carry capacity. If they do nerf the AR at all, they could do so by cutting the range or diminishing the damage dealt at it's extreme range without hurting it too much. And I agree the hipfire scatter should be turned up.
WARSLAVEs Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.10.08 02:52:00 - [9] - Quote personally i think the AR is not OP in CQC. I'm slow turning. I have a problem with why people can sprint faster in a circle around me than i can turn standing in one place. but to get back to the AR . An AR in CQC will dominate if it's a face off. Just the way it should be. to use a lesser powered gun and think you should dominate doesn't make sense. An AR is a versatile weapon good at any range up to long I don't like that my Sub sprays a billion bullets and rarely do even half hit. though i'm aimed at their back in a CQ situation i like the increase speed idea but the prob there is you still have with you the other weapon. And i really have a prob with scouts having a huge sniper and being able to spint forever. the bigger the load the less mobility you should have. I mean a sniper rifle is not that easy to run with. Try it i bet you can run farther with an AR and a pistol or sub than you can with a Sniper rifle in RL that is. I understand this is a game not RL i'm just making a point
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 385	Posted - 2012.10.08 02:53:00 - [10] - Quote The hmg is a close range weapon so it is one heavy exception

Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 04:57:00 - [11] - Quote WARSLAVEs wrote: personally i think the AR is not OP in CQC. I'm slow turning. I have a problem with why people can sprint faster in a circle around me than i can turn standing in one place. but to get back to the AR . An AR in CQC will dominate if it's a face off. Just the way it should be. to use a lesser powered gun and think you should dominate doesn't make sense. An AR is a versatile weapon good at any range up to long I don't like that my Sub sprays a billion bullets and rarely do even half hit. though i'm aimed at their back in a CQ situation i like the increase speed idea but the prob there is you still have with you the other weapon. And i really have a prob with scouts having a huge sniper and being able to spint forever. the bigger the load the less mobility you should have. I mean a sniper rifle is not that easy to run with. Try it i bet you can run farther with an AR and a pistol or sub than you can with a Sniper rifle in RL that is. I understand this is a game not RL i'm just making a point An AR is indeed meant to be just as good at close range as it is at medium range. But just because an AR is just as good at CQB as it is at medium range does not mean that an SMG should not be better than an AR at close range, because that is what an SMG is supposed to be. If you have an SMG you should be able to move faster and turn faster than an AR, as well as connect with many more bullets than an AR in the same amount of time firing. Yes people can turn faster than you can right now when you are scoped with an AR, but that is because scoping an SMG makes almost no difference right now as to how accurate you are because the ADS is so obtrusive. Most SMG users just hip fire or just ADS momentarily to line up the target then switch to hipfire so they can more easily keep a bead on the target. With bullets scattering like buckshot reguardless of how you aim, it really doesn't make any sense to zoom in and loose sight of your surroundings. When you hipfire an AR the turn speed difference compared to an SMG hipfire is very small to non-existent. And almost no one ADS with a shotgun because the crosshair works so well. However even when both are ADS the SMG should out manuver the AR easily because it is made for maneuverability whereas the AR is made for utility. An SMG or shotgun shouldn't have to sneak up on an AR in order to kill it, they should have decent sized maneuverability edge since these weapons are virtually useless at any other range. It's a game balance issue even if you have trouble squaring it perfectly with reality, there is no use for a weapon if it doesn't dominate it's element. I honestly feel that it makes perfect sense even when compared to reality however, have you ever held a assault rifle and an SMG before? Just holding one lets you know that there is a huge maneuverability difference between the two. And as these shotguns aren't made like ours are, they are actually arm attachments here in the EVE universe, it makes sense that they would be highly maneuverability too. As for the speed issue, you are correct. In a way. You do still have the other weapon, however you ability to move is less hampered with a sniper rifle across your back than with it in your hands. Which is why I brought it up that switching to a lighter weapon would allow you to get around between sniping. Coding would be a ***** to make your heavier weapons weigh you down only slightly less when you have a sidearm equipped but fully when they are equipped, and would lead to having to add a weight to each individual weapon and that's just a big mess. It would be a lot easier to just set it up so that the larger weapons slow you down more and the less obtrusive ones let you move faster. If after they have gotten rid of all of the other bugs and made all of the rest of the tweaks needed to fix the game that issue of weight came up I'd be all for it, but until the game is balanced properly I believe that to be one of those small details that can be overlooked temporarily. @Vermaak Doe: The HMG is indeed, however it's insane rate of fire coupled with it's high damage and weight makes it only make sense to keep it's strafe/turn/movement speed lower than most weapons. Perhaps if these tweaks were to go into effect you could increase the accuracy and range a bit on the HMG to make up for everyone else's speed advantage.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:01:00 - [12] - Quote There is no mention of it's weight ingame and it's damage is the lowest
Wintars Boar ZionTCD Legacy Rising 64	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:02:00 - [13] - Quote Not positive but pretty sure, don't cloaks in eve turn off when you fire or jump or activate an aggressive module? People who cloak in dust would likely become visible when they act. The biggest problem would be the cloak afkers. Not sure why it's a projected issue considering only certain suits could fit them and they will be proto suits
Destheren Taichi Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:12:00 - [14] - Quote Wintars Boar wrote: Not positive but pretty sure, don't cloaks in eve turn off when you fire or jump or activate an aggressive module? People who cloak in dust would likely become visible when they act. The biggest problem would be the cloak afkers. Not sure why it's a projected issue considering only certain suits could fit them and they will be proto suits That's exactly what I was thinking of when I was mentioning cloaking devices in my post. In EVE you cannot lock or activate certain modules while cloaked, and your movement speed is limited, though I believe stealth ships can still warp. As far as afkers go just have a system that boots players that are inactive for so long.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:16:00 - [15] - Quote Wintars Boar wrote: Not positive but pretty sure, don't cloaks in eve turn off when you fire or jump or activate an aggressive module? People who cloak in dust would likely become visible when they act. The biggest problem would be the cloak afkers. Not sure why it's a projected issue considering only certain suits could fit them and they will be proto suits It's an issue I thought I'd head off. Also I believe these tweaks would help the game balance better with or without cloaking being an issue, so I felt that I'd use the potential upcoming cloaking buff as a means of introducing a method of evening the field between weapons. Sort of twisting the topic a bit I suppose, but I've heard so much about the scout suits getting active camo or at least greatly enhanced signature dampening that I thought it was pretty much decided and just a matter of time. Am I mistaken or ill informed?
Renzo Kuken Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 369	Posted - 2012.10.08 06:26:00 - [16] - Quote perfect cloak tech, just look at ghost recon future soldier move= break stealth shoot=break stealth shields below 30% no stealth
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.08 08:43:00 - [17] - Quote Bosse Ansgar wrote: Alright, no one want's to discuss it anywhere else, so here's a topic just for it. CCP want's to make Scout dropsuits blend into the background because they are supposed to be stealth suits. I agree wholeheartedly since their very slight speed advantage, lack of armor and shields, and low CPU/PG make them very under powered right now and they are easy pickings for anyone who gets one in their sights. But my concern is what happens next. Everyone is going to ghost into the scenery and snipe the few who go after objectives, and ambush battles will turn into sniper wars. The only answer to the issue that I see is easy to fix and doesn't require the nerf to AR's that so many are calling for (though I still say a little recoil would be nice) and it ties in to the strafe speed and movement speed issues that many other people are complaining about. When the scouts ghost out, we are going to need higher movement speed to find cover since we won't be able to find the sniper's hiding spot as easily. If you base it around the type of weapon equipped you pretty much solve the issue right there. AR's are supposed to dominate mid range, but right now they dominate all ranges. When the scouts ghost then the long range battles go back in their favor. Here is what I propose: 1. Decrease the strafe speed and movement for all long range and heavy weapons, they are meant to be used at a range anyway so strafe shouldn't be as important to them. If they want to be stupid and bring a LR/heavy weapon out of it's element, then it's only right that they have a disadvantage because of it. If they end up in a CQB situation, that is what sidearms are for. 2. Increase the strafe speed and movement of all CQB/sidearm weapons significantly. AR's right now dominate CQB unless someone sneaks up on them, and that makes no sense. The whole point in having CQB weapons is to dominate CQB, not to be ineffective at all ranges unless you can surprise someone. Also cut down some of the recoil on the SMG, it's a bit ridiculous to be that erratic when the AR has no recoil whatsoever. This way when a sniper or a AV unit needs to move fast they can switch to a sidearm and haul ass to a new location. 3. Increase the sprint speed all the way around. With snipers unseen and OP ungodly accurate and high DPS AR's around every corner, we are gonna need to book it when it counts. In addition to the dangers out there, the size of these maps kind of demands an increase to sprint speed. Gameplay tends to drag on when you have to hoof it from objective to the next even if you don't factor in the snipers and AR's tucked into the hills. I'm sure plenty of you will hate, but CCP has said plenty of times that scouts are supposed to blend into the background soon. If you have better ideas to compensate for this I'd be glad to hear them. I can assure you that at CQB, shotgun are veeeeeeery more effective than AR
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 08:57:00 - [18] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: Alright, no one want's to discuss it anywhere else, so here's a topic just for it. CCP want's to make Scout dropsuits blend into the background because they are supposed to be stealth suits. I agree wholeheartedly since their very slight speed advantage, lack of armor and shields, and low CPU/PG make them very under powered right now and they are easy pickings for anyone who gets one in their sights. But my concern is what happens next. Everyone is going to ghost into the scenery and snipe the few who go after objectives, and ambush battles will turn into sniper wars. The only answer to the issue that I see is easy to fix and doesn't require the nerf to AR's that so many are calling for (though I still say a little recoil would be nice) and it ties in to the strafe speed and movement speed issues that many other people are complaining about. When the scouts ghost out, we are going to need higher movement speed to find cover since we won't be able to find the sniper's hiding spot as easily. If you base it around the type of weapon equipped you pretty much solve the issue right there. AR's are supposed to dominate mid range, but right now they dominate all ranges. When the scouts ghost then the long range battles go back in their favor. Here is what I propose: 1. Decrease the strafe speed and movement for all long range and heavy weapons, they are meant to be used at a range anyway so strafe shouldn't be as important to them. If they want to be stupid and bring a LR/heavy weapon out of it's element, then it's only right that they have a disadvantage because of it. If they end up in a CQB situation, that is what sidearms are for. 2. Increase the strafe speed and movement of all CQB/sidearm weapons significantly. AR's right now dominate CQB unless someone sneaks up on them, and that makes no sense. The whole point in having CQB weapons is to dominate CQB, not to be ineffective at all ranges unless you can surprise someone. Also cut down some of the recoil on the SMG, it's a bit ridiculous to be that erratic when the AR has no recoil whatsoever. This way when a sniper or a AV unit needs to move fast they can switch to a sidearm and haul ass to a new location. 3. Increase the sprint speed all the way around. With snipers unseen and OP ungodly accurate and high DPS AR's around every corner, we are gonna need to book it when it counts. In addition to the dangers out there, the size of these maps kind of demands an increase to sprint speed. Gameplay tends to drag on when you have to hoof it from objective to the next even if you don't factor in the snipers and AR's tucked into the hills. I'm sure plenty of you will hate, but CCP has said plenty of times that scouts are supposed to blend into the background soon. If you have better ideas to compensate for this I'd be glad to hear them. I can assure you that at CQB, shotgun are veeeeeeery more effective than AR The shotgun is only more effective if you get close enough to the AR before he sees you. If you spot each other at 5 meters at the same time and he starts to back-peddle and jump around, then you've got no chance. You'll be swiss cheese before you can get close enough to land that one close up kill-shot with the shot gun because it takes less than a second for an AR to take just about any dropsuit armor down to nothing. If you happen to wander into into each other face to face at point blank range and your reflexes are good enough you can easily take him down, but with any distance between you it takes 2-4 shots on most dropsuits to drop them and an AR doesn't give you that long.
WARSLAVEs Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.10.08 23:29:00 - [19] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: I can assure you that at CQB, shotgun are veeeeeeery more effective than AR I concur @Bosse Ansgar I hear what you are saying. And agree to an extent your maneuverability(turn speed) should be higher with a SMG than an AR or Sniper but your speed should still be hampered by the sniper rifle on your back it's big and bulky. if you are a SMG specialist carrying 2 SMG's then yes you should be able to run faster. but just because you have a smaller gun equipped shouldn't increase your run speed or you could just throw a swarm launcher on your back whip out a pistol and run like Gump. thats not gonna happen "Why am i running so slow with an M60 on my back Sarge, I have my Uzi in my hand" doesn't make sense. And it shouldn't. Your turning speed should increase due to it being smaller but the fact that you still have both weapons makes you the same speed moving(forward, backward, strafe) and should shorten your sprint ability and one other thing about my turning with an AR. I wasn't scoped i was hipfiring thats why i mentioned it prob should have in my first post
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.09 00:19:00 - [20] - Quote WARSLAVEs wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: I can assure you that at CQB, shotgun are veeeeeeery more effective than AR I concur @Bosse Ansgar I hear what you are saying. And agree to an extent your maneuverability(turn speed) should be higher with a SMG than an AR or Sniper but your speed should still be hampered by the sniper rifle on your back it's big and bulky. if you are a SMG specialist carrying 2 SMG's then yes you should be able to run faster. but just because you have a smaller gun equipped shouldn't increase your run speed or you could just throw a swarm launcher on your back whip out a pistol and run like Gump. thats not gonna happen "Why am i running so slow with an M60 on my back Sarge, I have my Uzi in my hand" doesn't make sense. And it shouldn't. Your turning speed should increase due to it being smaller but the fact that you still have both weapons makes you the same speed moving(forward, backward, strafe) and should shorten your sprint ability and one other thing about my turning with an AR. I wasn't scoped i was hipfiring thats why i mentioned it prob should have in my first post Perhaps it has to do with how I have my turn speed set, but I see almost no difference between the two, perhaps a very slight one. Or perhaps it's because I used a different suit for each weapon? I've no idea, but if you say it's different when hipfiring I have no reason to doubt that has been your experience. I've not been able to make heads or tales of how to turn the turn speed up or down since half the people say 100 is full and the rest say 0 is full, I have just been leaving mine at 50. And I agree that a heavy weapon should weight you down, my logic was a bit fuzzy last night/this morning. I like lagers at 3 in the morning, it's a weakness. My apologies for arguing a silly point like that. However I believe I had a point that shotgun users and SMG users (I sometimes use one on a logistics suit to conserve CPU/PG, and logistics only gets one weapon) should be able to move and strafe faster than an AR. I can't say anything for how much the shotgun weighs, but it can't be all that cumbersome if it's carried on one arm. On the SMG, how about a trade off? No additional turn and strafe, but reduce the spread significantly. At least to the point to where you can use is as a semi mid-ranged weapon. Give it an effective range of 1/3 of what the AR has and make it at least as accurate as the HMG. Increase the CPU/PG to be halfway between an AR and the pistol and slightly decrease the clip size. How does that sound? I think that would even the playing field nicely between the two. AR's would still dominate the midrange, still be good for both long and short range, but the closer you get to an SMG the smaller your advantage gets. And of course the shotgun dominates the pointblank range.



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