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[Feedback] Issues with the CQC Scout specialization

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Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.05 04:55:00 - [1] - Quote Didn't really see a thread about this within the first three pages. Most of this information I have used in other threads but have consolidated into a list here. Not enough survivability to last in a firefight. 1v1's are difficult, multiple enemies nigh impossible. Hit detection system has been improved, making it difficult for the scout to close the distance with potential targets. Not enough speed to substantially evade gunfire in open terrain, some maps completely lacking cover over large areas. Scan Profile/Precision system is not very clear and not dependable as a primary means of defense. To expand on above point - no indicator for when you have been spotted to give the scout time to react. Incredibly slow strafe speeds for the suit's capabilities. Low versatility for modules/equipment prevents filling the gap where speed/stealth fails. Low PG/CPU adds to the above ailment. Only physical means of defense speed are shield modules, as armor modules will increase it's mass and subsequently decrease speed. Please do not suggest "Sniper Scouts". That isn't the topic of the thread and Scout suits should not be limited solely to that specialization. Please keep discussion civil and do try to limit your trolling. These are opinions and theories, not facts.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.05 05:10:00 - [2] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: I firmly disagree Some excellent reasoning you have there.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.05 05:14:00 - [3] - Quote Would also like to add - regarding the profile/precision issue - there are instances that a target should not be able to notice that I am approaching them (sniper who is not looking in my direction, no other infantry in the area) turn around with the apparent knowledge that I had been there. I.E - gun at the ready/switching to sidearm. Other instances my Precision (using a precision enhancer no less) should have picked up the Assault/Logistics suit that was standing at point blank range behind me but they had never come up on my map. Query: How do Profile/Precision mechanics operate? Are they directional or cover a radius? It's assumed that Precision must be lower than the Profile to register as the Scout's Profile/Precision is dramatically lower than that of a Heavy - thereby, according to skills, it should technically be possible for a Scout to be incredibly difficult even for an Active Scanner to pick up. This doesn't seem to be the case.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.05 18:00:00 - [4] - Quote Auztin Dorriety wrote: Scouts need to be just what their outfit says Scouts.They should be the sneaky recon type need it be with a Sniper rifle or SMG.If I'm Assault I already have more more armor than you.1v1 you should have a slim chance of killing me up front but great chance of killing me in the back. Not currently viable. As I have previously pointed out, scan mechanics are somewhat broken at the moment and with the Scout's speed severely hit in this build they can't be a good fallback with their unpredictability. Also - I loathe just about anyone who says "Scouts should be the sneaky recon type". That's like saying Heavies -must- be Anti-Vehicle. Avenger 245 wrote: Try equiping nanofiber mods if you want to go faster ..... Are we even playing the same game here? Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Only people who want a increase in strafe speed are the people who after last build think its a combat class it is not it was broken last build which made it Scout>Assult>heavy>logi. Opinionated assumptions dont' account for much in the forums dude. It only shows how little you honestly know about classes you don't play and gains you the inability to be taken seriously when you bring up an issue. Another thing I'd like to mention is that - if this were the case and Scout suits are in fact supposed to be a support class - they would be the ONLY support class. Logi suits were brought up to par with the Assault Suit and more times than not can hold their own against them. Heavies now have substantial ability to hold their own against pretty much anything that they're fit against. I know this because I have played all of them and only recently have I decided to specialize in the Scout because it seemed to be the most underpowered in this build. As such it's become so frustrating that I simply can't play anymore. There's instances where I should have well be able to use my speed as a defense but can't get out of the way of slow moving LAVs. Wintars Boar wrote: There is still rumor and potential for further ECM and stealth capabilities. It's possible these issues which were brought up (which I fully agree with) could be nullified by future gear. I'm not very hip on the different races in eve, but could CPU/pg limitations be due to the suit being Galente design? Maybe different racial suits will excell in different areas. It could be the minmatar scout will be more of the front line scout, while Galente is relegated to the fringes. #unsure Minmatar usually are the speed tankers, Gallente are more focused on damage output, Amarr usually prefer incredibly heavy armor defense and Caldari specialize in shield tanking.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.05 18:01:00 - [5] - Quote Honestly - can we get some opinions from people who actually play scout suits for anything other than sniping or is just forum-warriors who are occasionally kill them that are going to post here...? Edit: And please, for the love of God, stop trying to make the scout suit a purely recon class unless you want me to make a feedback thread about how the Heavy should be a purely AV class. This game is meant to have broad spectrums, not limited paths that you -can- branch from but not effectively.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.05 18:39:00 - [6] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: Honesty can you have a valid.argument for why a suit that needs to find a place should receive a powerful boost to something you thinks its for These.. are.. valid points.. If not all of them, some of them are very valid.. And your argument is a double-edged sword - I'm fighting for what I think the suit should be used for and you're denying that logic for what you think the suit should be used for.. Mine just happens to lean more toward open ended specializations instead of "this suit is used for this". I see a lot of argument to use the Assault Suit for CQC - you're sacrificing the speed you would normally need to get into the thick of combat and in return getting higher defenses. That's a completely valid argument. BUT A scout should be able to use his speed to draw the distance and close in on his target faster than an Assault Suit and reliably use that speed as his defense as he is reducing his chances by not having sufficient armor/shields. Currently, this isn't reliable and I feel that it needs to be improved to some degree. So - please - instead of denying all of my points.. How about we have a legitimate, logical discussion on -why- you feel that Scout suits should -not- be used for CQC. And please don't say Nanofiber Mods because those don't exist as infantry modules. EDIT: Essentially what I am trying to get at is that there should be more than one way to skin a cat. Anyone and their mother can be a sniper in this game - ask the Heavy Suits sporting them.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.05 20:16:00 - [7] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: You assuming thep scout is a cqc fighter and the other suits arnt that's what I have an issue with you can fit a scout for cqc but that's not what they are intended for they are intended to use speed and agility to accomplish their task your asking for benefits specifically for cqc scout that is a subgroup not the scouts themself. The scouts don't need more health their speed stamina and other agility comes at a cost. scouts are fast enough they could use natural bonus to quick draw quick scope and reload though. The scouts not CQC king a assault armed with a smg/SG and the proper fit is. Scouts don't need boost to hack speed they should need it they alrady get there first Scouts however should get a boost to detection directly in front of them. 1.) Wasn't requesting/suggesting/implying more health for the scout suit - ever. I'm simply stating that it is an issue that is in tandem with other issues currently that makes it a very difficult class. 2.) Scout/Assault CQC (as far as which is better) is an opinion. This thread is regarding the CQC Scout's viability by comparison. Yes, assault is king now that hit detection has been fixed and strafe speeds reduced, dramatically more so than the Scout. A think a big issue is that a CQC scout suit has to wait for the enemy to be suppressed before they can get into the fray and do what they're designed to do. In my opinion (holy god for the love of christ please do not jump me just because I have an opinion that disagrees with yours) they should be able to flank the enemy and disrupt their frontline so that friendly forces can advance.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.06 00:33:00 - [8] - Quote Auztin Dorriety wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Auztin Dorriety wrote: Scouts need to be just what their outfit says Scouts.They should be the sneaky recon type need it be with a Sniper rifle or SMG.If I'm Assault I already have more more armor than you.1v1 you should have a slim chance of killing me up front but great chance of killing me in the back. Not currently viable. As I have previously pointed out, scan mechanics are somewhat broken at the moment and with the Scout's speed severely hit in this build they can't be a good fallback with their unpredictability. Also - I loathe just about anyone who says "Scouts should be the sneaky recon type". That's like saying Heavies -must- be Anti-Vehicle. Heavies are more of a HMG & Mass Driver type deal.If this was a MMORPG like DCUO,Heavies are like your Tank,Logistics is like your Healer,Assault are like your Controller,& Scouts are your DPS. Not much DPS unless you're using an Assault Rifle.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:12:00 - [9] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: An opinion from 90% scout user: Scouts are fine at the moment. You can do lots with 'em, even kill people in CQ while using as simple as level 1 suit. I can see several used: - Shotgun brawler - AR med range equipment carrier - Tac rifle - Lockbreaker (max speed+uplinks) - AV Swarm - AV Demo and some else... Love the game what you can do with fittings. So they're now entirely a support class that's a faster, less versatile logistics/AV assault? Those are CQC builds that you're seeing, mate..

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