DUST Search - These Users were caught/observed causing frame stutters/ Frame glitching.

Nova Knife wrote:

Xiree wrote:

@Aq'sa

Very good, finally a speculation worth addressing!

In the vast world of internet connection. Your computer, playstation, and other internet able devices... Communicate through the net using packets. A packet is a set of data that is ration with the server. The packet contains variables that the server acknowledges and handles.

There are users, who tamper with those variables... For instance, when I shoot at Jimbreezy in the head... His console is receiving that packet of data--I sent of bullets to his head. That packet of data tells him to take damage and die.

But *if* Jimbreezy is tampering with his packet receive / ignoring packets, via proxy filter setup... Jimbreezy doesn't take damage. Jimbreezy takes bullet to the face like a boss and not take damage and die.

Other variations of that can impact game too... Users can send constant headshots, Users can spawn in frame, or around vector location of frame.

Frame vectoring is the essential position in a map that your HUD draws. Each map in most games has VECTORING numbers. The Vector number is the essential LOCATION in the game map. Frame-vectoring is the vector position in THE HUD(Heads Up Display) .

So *if* Jimbreezy, has a proxy filter to highlight incomming packets that have user-alias inside of frame(HUD)... Jimbreezy can tamper with that packet of data... Jimbreezy could ignore packets that allocate damage to his head when I am shooting at him -- Just by setting a proxy-server up... Just to control the packet-data Jimbreezy receives or sends.

I hope that was clear for you... Inside how game values work in packet data. If not copy and paste the section that is difficult for you... Maybe I can draw a nice picture graphing it or something using bright colors --Just to clarify more or somethn.

First off, this is incorrect. Pretty much everything for dust is server side, not clientside. This means lag switching only puts you at a disadvantage. Further, any tampering of packets would not pose any advantage because even if you were to send false packets to the server saying "HURRDURR I SHOT PLAYER X" the server would just reply "LOLNO player X was way over there dude and you weren't even close to hitting him"

Second, the forums are not the place to name and shame. If you have serious complaints about a person you suspect is cheating, send an email to [email protected] and they will investigate.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Aq'sa L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 44	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:23:00 - [31] - Quote Isn't Dust using more server side calculations for this stuff- i.e. hit detection- that make lag switches and client side lag (Downloads, bad wifi, crappy modem, etc) only relevant for the client affected, not others?
Xiree Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2012.10.09 09:28:00 - [32] - Quote @Aq'sa Very good, finally a speculation worth addressing! In the vast world of internet connection. Your computer, playstation, and other internet able devices... Communicate through the net using packets. A packet is a set of data that is ration with the server. The packet contains variables that the server acknowledges and handles. There are users, who tamper with those variables... For instance, when I shoot at Jimbreezy in the head... His console is receiving that packet of data--I sent of bullets to his head. That packet of data tells him to take damage and die. But if Jimbreezy is tampering with his packet receive / ignoring packets, via proxy filter setup... Jimbreezy doesn't take damage. Jimbreezy takes bullet to the face like a boss and not take damage and die. Other variations of that can impact game too... Users can send constant headshots, Users can spawn in frame, or around vector location of frame. Frame vectoring is the essential position in a map that your HUD draws. Each map in most games has VECTORING numbers. The Vector number is the essential LOCATION in the game map. Frame-vectoring is the vector position in THE HUD(Heads Up Display) . So if Jimbreezy, has a proxy filter to highlight incomming packets that have user-alias inside of frame(HUD)... Jimbreezy can tamper with that packet of data... Jimbreezy could ignore packets that allocate damage to his head when I am shooting at him -- Just by setting a proxy-server up... Just to control the packet-data Jimbreezy receives or sends. I hope that was clear for you... Inside how game values work in packet data. If not copy and paste the section that is difficult for you... Maybe I can draw a nice picture graphing it or something using bright colors --Just to clarify more or somethn.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.09 09:53:00 - [33] - Quote it's hard to measure what is a glitch and what is a system abuse i believe the sniper glitch is a legit glitch because that has been happening no matter who your firing at, i made a thread about it and i don't believe any one person is causing it. although i might start paying attention to who it has been doing it to. CCP is known for squashing system abusers i hope they can with the PS3 as for the STB guys, i know they are a bunch of arrogant useless people who think that they can rule the game and they are also not above abusing anything. i recently played a game with a few of them and they were armor repping the whole game on the enemy team. top 3 players were STB's guys 40/0 0/1 0/0 so i wouldn't put it past them to use lag switches to win. sucks kitten or whatever his face is was just bombarding the field with PS while his team was left to lose.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.10.09 11:18:00 - [34] - Quote Xiree wrote: @Aq'sa Very good, finally a speculation worth addressing! In the vast world of internet connection. Your computer, playstation, and other internet able devices... Communicate through the net using packets. A packet is a set of data that is ration with the server. The packet contains variables that the server acknowledges and handles. There are users, who tamper with those variables... For instance, when I shoot at Jimbreezy in the head... His console is receiving that packet of data--I sent of bullets to his head. That packet of data tells him to take damage and die. But if Jimbreezy is tampering with his packet receive / ignoring packets, via proxy filter setup... Jimbreezy doesn't take damage. Jimbreezy takes bullet to the face like a boss and not take damage and die. Other variations of that can impact game too... Users can send constant headshots, Users can spawn in frame, or around vector location of frame. Frame vectoring is the essential position in a map that your HUD draws. Each map in most games has VECTORING numbers. The Vector number is the essential LOCATION in the game map. Frame-vectoring is the vector position in THE HUD(Heads Up Display) . So if Jimbreezy, has a proxy filter to highlight incomming packets that have user-alias inside of frame(HUD)... Jimbreezy can tamper with that packet of data... Jimbreezy could ignore packets that allocate damage to his head when I am shooting at him -- Just by setting a proxy-server up... Just to control the packet-data Jimbreezy receives or sends. I hope that was clear for you... Inside how game values work in packet data. If not copy and paste the section that is difficult for you... Maybe I can draw a nice picture graphing it or something using bright colors --Just to clarify more or somethn. First off, this is incorrect. Pretty much everything for dust is server side, not clientside. This means lag switching only puts you at a disadvantage. Further, any tampering of packets would not pose any advantage because even if you were to send false packets to the server saying "HURRDURR I SHOT PLAYER X" the server would just reply "LOLNO player X was way over there dude and you weren't even close to hitting him" Second, the forums are not the place to name and shame. If you have serious complaints about a person you suspect is cheating, send an email to [email protected] and they will investigate.
Xiree Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2012.10.09 12:03:00 - [35] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Xiree wrote: @Aq'sa Very good, finally a speculation worth addressing! In the vast world of internet connection. Your computer, playstation, and other internet able devices... Communicate through the net using packets. A packet is a set of data that is ration with the server. The packet contains variables that the server acknowledges and handles. There are users, who tamper with those variables... For instance, when I shoot at Jimbreezy in the head... His console is receiving that packet of data--I sent of bullets to his head. That packet of data tells him to take damage and die. But if Jimbreezy is tampering with his packet receive / ignoring packets, via proxy filter setup... Jimbreezy doesn't take damage. Jimbreezy takes bullet to the face like a boss and not take damage and die. Other variations of that can impact game too... Users can send constant headshots, Users can spawn in frame, or around vector location of frame. Frame vectoring is the essential position in a map that your HUD draws. Each map in most games has VECTORING numbers. The Vector number is the essential LOCATION in the game map. Frame-vectoring is the vector position in THE HUD(Heads Up Display) . So if Jimbreezy, has a proxy filter to highlight incomming packets that have user-alias inside of frame(HUD)... Jimbreezy can tamper with that packet of data... Jimbreezy could ignore packets that allocate damage to his head when I am shooting at him -- Just by setting a proxy-server up... Just to control the packet-data Jimbreezy receives or sends. I hope that was clear for you... Inside how game values work in packet data. If not copy and paste the section that is difficult for you... Maybe I can draw a nice picture graphing it or something using bright colors --Just to clarify more or somethn. First off, this is incorrect. Pretty much everything for dust is server side, not clientside. This means lag switching only puts you at a disadvantage. Further, any tampering of packets would not pose any advantage because even if you were to send false packets to the server saying "HURRDURR I SHOT PLAYER X" the server would just reply "LOLNO player X was way over there dude and you weren't even close to hitting him" Second, the forums are not the place to name and shame. If you have serious complaints about a person you suspect is cheating, send an email to [email protected] and they will investigate. Hi there Nova! I seem to have ruffled your... feathers. I know I can send emails too Dev staff. This is a private / closed forums though. Since you never forwarded my message to the developers about tamperings before(The time I chatted with you before) ... I thought I would just post about it, openly... Just to see what sort of reaction I got. I'm sorry you may be so confused about my list here. Have it be, I am creating a USER LIST of who I've seen having "odd" bugs with. Frame glitching, mainly. I only used Jimbreezy as a example of contrast inside of a scenario. There was n0t any reall accusing going on -- I said "IF" . I never said he was, ok? This is called setting as example. Since I liked how he... Took bullets to the face, like a boss... I thought I'd say that a few more times, to be funny. Thats just great right? I am not sure what you meant by, "HURRDURR I SHOT PLAYER X" . Could you explain what that means? Please, much appreciated...
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.10.09 14:06:00 - [36] - Quote Xiree wrote: I am not sure what you meant by, "HURRDURR I SHOT PLAYER X" . Could you explain what that means? Please, much appreciated... In your example in above posts, you said it was possible to manipulate or 'ignore' packets and thus never take damage. I'm telling you it doesn't work like that. Hit detection and damage values are all server side. Even if you were able to isolate packets associated to damage, conflict would remain with the server and you'd just die without realizing you took damage because you dropped packets. It'd pretty much be as if you died to lag without actually lagging. Something like you're suggesting might be possible in games where hit detection/damage is calculated client side and not server side (Like battlefield 3 and such) but when the server itself handles this, it's not possible.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.10.09 14:12:00 - [37] - Quote I've been getting crazy lag this build, too, but it doesn't seem to be linked to any particular person. In fact, once it starts happening for me I have to restart the game, otherwise it will follow me into the next match. (I'll be lagging out in the war barge, even.)

GM Unicorn Game Masters C C P Alliance 320	Posted - 2012.10.09 15:09:00 - [38] - Quote I removed all the players names and PSN ID. I don't want a witch hunt for an undocumented problem. As suggested, drop an email to [email protected] next time you are suspecting about a glitch or an exploit. In the meantime I'll send your informations myself so we can look into it and see if it's a widespread problem or a simple connection hiccup. I leave the post open in order to see if it's a global problem but I don't like to see names, ok? Thanks guys!

Patrick Loney Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.10.09 16:43:00 - [39] - Quote I too have had this problem.. Game is running fine no problem, then halfway into a match, super lag ( 3-5 seconds sometimes ) and my PS3 is not overheating because the next match runs fine again. I have not tied it to seeing a particular player but I will watch for that next time it happens.
Aq'sa L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 44	Posted - 2012.10.09 20:40:00 - [40] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Xiree wrote: I am not sure what you meant by, "HURRDURR I SHOT PLAYER X" . Could you explain what that means? Please, much appreciated... In your example in above posts, you said it was possible to manipulate or 'ignore' packets and thus never take damage. I'm telling you it doesn't work like that. Hit detection and damage values are all server side. Even if you were able to isolate packets associated to damage, conflict would remain with the server and you'd just die without realizing you took damage because you dropped packets. It'd pretty much be as if you died to lag without actually lagging. Something like you're suggesting might be possible in games where hit detection/damage is calculated client side and not server side (Like battlefield 3 and such) but when the server itself handles this, it's not possible. ^^^ This is what I was saying, ignoring packets, not sending packets, manipulating packets, at your client side shouldn't affect Dust due to CCP handling those calculations server side. The vector locations, damage packets, etc- you could ignore, or spoof, but the server would have the 'reality' of location and damage still playing out. You are at (x-range; y-angle) on server- you get shot by player sending and receiving packets as normal. If you ignore packets- you die, your ignoring of packets means you possibly can't tell, but still die. You spoof packets- server checks against its existing info- corrects you. This is why I made a post asking for Eve-Style handling of lag in Dust. In Eve, lag and 'lost' commands (clicks or keystrokes) was evident for ages in large fleet fights due to a exponentially expanding queue of requests hitting the server when overloaded. This means you click fire, nothing happens because your fire command was in line behind 4000 other boost, fire, turn, follow, etc commands. You would seemingly die, frozen, before your ship would respond to any directions. The server overload caused queue backup and the backlog accrued amplifies overload, spiraling down till a server node would crash- kaput. CCP intuitively addressed this by universally slowing down 'time' in game during periods of node overload, essentially allowing the server to catch up with the lag by slowing the time physics for the whole star system, for all players in it, based on load and command queue size. This means you would run at 75% or 50% typical game speed, but no one would experience the lag spikes or 3 FPS gameplay. See Thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=341222#post341222

Illuminaughty-696 Omega Risk Control Services 203	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:11:00 - [41] - Quote A player in a squad I was running reported that he had a lag spike, then suddenly could move a little too fast for a few seconds. During this time he was getting shot but taking no damage and managed to kill three guys. A couple of seconds later he was suddenly dead, as if all the damage suddenly caught up to him. Hopefully he posts a report here. Anyway, this might explain it, don't know.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:19:00 - [42] - Quote Don't buy stuff in the market while you're still alive (or not?) in a match. It's likely to get framerate spikes this way with ps3 needing to handle the chaos going on in the battlefield, the overview map and things you do in the market. Got my tank blown up later when the framerate went below 10.
SuperKing BigNuts Trinity Council Test Alliance Please Ignore 19	Posted - 2012.10.10 02:50:00 - [43] - Quote Someone previously posted about implementing TIDI to DUST but i think that that would be hard because most of these lag spikes seem to hit one or two people in a match leading me to believe its more connection hiccups between client and server in a heavily loaded situation(as mentioned, market, overview map, and battle) I do not believe it is like the lag we experience in EVE Online because a MAJOR portion of that lag was occuring during massive fleet movements(anything over 100+ jumping system generally kicks up some hefty TIDI) when EVERYONE is queing EVERYONE to be added to LOCAL CHAT of all things... that doesnt appear to be as big of an issue in DUST with limited battle slots, and having 200+ players spamming half a dozen modules at once(activating hardeners or queing up weapons and EWAR just before a fight) i realize my numbers are 'low' for 'massive' fleet fights in EVE, i am aware of the 1600+ man local fights, i was simply noting what ive seen to be about the start of TIDI spikes, and pointing out the numbers are much greater than what were working with currently in DUST. there might be other issues, but i dont know the specifics and am skeptical as to the effectiveness of TIDI in this setting.
D3aTH D3alER54 The Southern Legion 130	Posted - 2012.10.10 04:02:00 - [44] - Quote McFurious wrote: For me, just about everyone who comes into my view causes some kind of lag or frame skipping. The closer they are the worse it gets. Yep, ..
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.10.10 12:58:00 - [45] - Quote Had another instance yesterday evening. The FPS drop persisted even after the round, and only closing the game entirely resolved it. Sounds like CCP have a Memory leak somewhere, or are hitting a buffer limit. On a side note, the HDD start working REALLY hard when this happens.
Xiree Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2012.10.16 07:23:00 - [46] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=351892#post351892 If you look at that post there... Its about infrastructure about DUST514 server. I believe its mainly a relay server, thus... My console has more direct connection to players than it does the server and if it is SO... That the server acts more as a relay/cloud like server--users can glitch because they are in direct relay with other users. If the server was more HUB interfaced -- Having the server act as the primary transition controller... Then players could not glitch. An removing my user list... On a closed beta forums is questionable. It would be a relatively small "witch hunt" . But my list isn't a witch hunt... Its to narrow bad connectivity down... The Server staff / admins OF THE GAME SERVERs--not forum moderators--could pull up a users activity AND see what their sending. The username list is partially important. Without a name to follow, Dev staff couldn't look up activity.... Thus, that is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, Unicorn.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2012.10.16 07:35:00 - [47] - Quote I usually have framerate issues when I have played several matches and then join one of the bigger maps. game restart always fixes the issue, I suspect it is more of a memory "leak".
Xiree Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2012.10.16 08:35:00 - [48] - Quote That is not what a memory leak is, but thanks anyway!. A memory leak means things do not off cache correctly; The first build, had a lot of memory leaks... It would not off cache, resetting the game would fix the old build, for numerous of things you must are going by OLD dev notes . They have actually placed more caching measures, both server side and client side. The connectivity problems could be a person connection or someone tampering with connection; there is also a few other things server side could cause that would appear lag. Either way... People not taken bullets to the face the first few times you shot at them, somethin be up.

GM Hercules Game Masters C C P Alliance 335	Posted - 2012.10.16 13:47:00 - [49] - Quote I going to close this thread for now. However, please be aware that I'll update this post soon. Thanks for your understanding and patient.



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