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No ISK reward for loosing a match

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The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.09.28 20:18:00 - [1] - Quote Im fed up with idiots on this game. In my opinion you should get no payout after a match when you lost it. To give people a motivation to actually play the objective. Its more interesting to see people actually putting up a fight and not just sit in their redline and go: "duh im gonna snipe the whole day with my militia sniper rifle and do nothing else". SP however should stay where it is after all you played and gained experience be it if you won or lost. And for the n00bs out there this is how to win these game modes: skirmish: controll more objectives then the enemy to blow up the enemy MCC. YES THIS MEANS YOU NEED TO CONTROLL 2 ADDITIONAL OBJECTIVES INSTEAD OF JUST THE LETTER THATS THE CLOSEST TO YOUR REDLINE! AND IF YOU CANT COUNT THATS 3 OBJECTIVES YOU DERPFACES! AND YES THE OBJECTIVES THAT YOUR TEAM HAS ARE BLUE AND THE OBJECTIVES FROM THE ENEMY ARE RED! Ambush: basically TDM means that you should NOT DIE BY NO MATTERS! And not going 0-11 and causing your team to loose. Oh and have fun discussing the no payout thingy and let me know your opinion about it. Thanks.
Paradox-Raider Talon Company Mercs 54	Posted - 2012.09.28 20:22:00 - [2] - Quote Yup, I agree.
Jane DeArc Militaires Sans Jeux 87	Posted - 2012.09.28 20:31:00 - [3] - Quote Your no win no reward was discussed at length here, but it is an issue worthy of more discussion, so perhaps continue it there instead of making a new thread over and over? As a sniper, I take A LOT of heat for not supporting objectives, but I nearly always help cap a mid-map objective, then I throw Remote Explosives on the hack console and get to a safe position to snipe the console to defend it. As a sniper I feel it's my job to do things like this, and support teammates in skirmishes all over the map on their way to objectives.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.28 20:32:00 - [4] - Quote Would + 2 this if I could.
Ad ski IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.09.28 20:36:00 - [5] - Quote No just no. If you have idiots on your team no matter how hard you try it's damn near impossible to win. Why should you be penalised because of their incompetence?
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.09.28 20:56:00 - [6] - Quote Totally disagree, people shouldn't be punished for having a terrible team. In actual contracted-by-players fights, sure, nothing for the loser. But in random games, where you have no control over who's on your team and how they play, it'd leave too much to chance.
Tyler Hall Algintal Core Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2012.09.28 21:00:00 - [7] - Quote what about the people who honestly try and get stuck with those idiots? if you have a couple of crappy teams in a row your broke...and it's your fault? once people start forming corps it won't be as bad, but at least for now the money is nice.
Ranger SnakeBlood 38	Posted - 2012.09.28 21:06:00 - [8] - Quote I think best way to do it would be to have a up front 50% pay out for accepting the contract and upon completing the job we get the additional 50% + bonuses for performing with distinction, Some contracts wont be a fight to win it will be a get in their and cost the enemy as much as possible in a traditional TDM this would likely be a negative KDR but as for effeiceince you could cost them millions for only a few hundered thousand these missions could be used to say bleed the enemy dry before a proper strike to take a base, Also if loosing team get no isk then they can not get better gear so the next match will be a total masacer, the nopay out for no win could work if their was a full sized PVE side to DUST but as it stands their isnt
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.09.28 21:08:00 - [9] - Quote you should only get no salvage on losing a match
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.28 21:12:00 - [10] - Quote Well...being mercs, we are paid up front...we are paid to fight, not to win... But I agree that there needs to be some incentive to win a match, not only to get snipers moving, but also to incite teamwork and stop boosters. I would make it a hefty SP bonus for winning, while cutting the SP gained through Warpoints by a factor of 5 or 10.

The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.09.28 21:21:00 - [11] - Quote Well im planning to run with a corp the whole time and avoid random matches. Means i want to deploy with a 16 man team to ensure a win. And im fed up with it that usually the squad that im playing with does 90% of the work while every 1 else just sits back and does 0 to actually win the match. And im not talking only about skirmish its also happening on ambush aswell. My squad does well and all the random n00bs try to gather around us though they are no big help. Its the other way around my squad has to take care of it that the randoms dont die 24/7. Be it going AV or taking a objective i cant count on the randoms. You know why? Cause every random that ive met so far has the same usefullness like a knife against a Sagaris. Examples? here we go: -Random logi throws nano hives on people who are in the need of a revive. -Random assault guy hides behind a rock instead helping me to take out the enemy (situation is 2vs1) -Random scout sits in the nowhere and goes 0-10 while attempting to "quickscope" -Random heavy shots swarms at infantry The list is endless and this is way i want that actually stupid players should not be rewarded to do stupid things. And at the moment it doesnt matter if you win or loose cause you get basically the same payout. With other words: Why should i try to win? I get payd anyway. Why you think CCP is putting smart bombs into the game? So that corps have actually a use for crap players. In the future it will be like this: The good infantry guy goes for kills with his proto weapons The good vehicle guy supports his team with Tanks/Dropships/Lav's The average guy goes logi/AV The crappy guy goes smart bombing on a militia scout cause he is just useless to do a other task Im serious about this when you apply to a corp and you are not capable to do something good you should write in the apply comment that your specialisation is: "Hi me im a smart bomb guy, i run into a group and blow myself up cause i cant hit the broad side of a barn"
Whispercrow Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.09.28 22:02:00 - [12] - Quote No. It's bad enough to be stuck on some losing team thanks to the whims of the matchmaking system. Another thing entirely to get LITERALLY NOTHING from it. Except, you know, whatever pittance of skillpoints you may have gotten from a few kills/reps thanks to joining in on a losing team where most everyone else left. Make the 'win' reward like +50% or whatever as another person said, and it's fine.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.09.28 22:05:00 - [13] - Quote deja vu
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.09.28 22:24:00 - [14] - Quote people who hide with dropships on towers exploiting the swarms not touching them should not get paid for not playing the game
Dusters Blog Bragian Order Amarr Empire 116	Posted - 2012.09.29 00:43:00 - [15] - Quote +3
Noob Noobuler Algintal Core Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.09.29 00:55:00 - [16] - Quote no.it is a contract win or lose.they pay you to fight.i and they pay you based on how well you did win or lose..if this did happen yall will be whining qhwn you kill34 people and have 2 deaths saying you didnt get paid or sp for the kills or captures
Noob Noobuler Algintal Core Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.09.29 00:59:00 - [17] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: --Random scout sits in the nowhere and goes 0-10 while attempting to "quickscope" " thank god for the sway thats random
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.09.29 01:01:00 - [18] - Quote Noob Noobuler wrote: no.it is a contract win or lose.they pay you to fight.i and they pay you based on how well you did win or lose..if this did happen yall will be whining qhwn you kill34 people and have 2 deaths saying you didnt get paid or sp for the kills or captures Contracts are given to you, those contracts are your payments to WIN. Just fighting isn't good enough. If i'm a part of a super massive battle that could decide the fate of some system, I will want - no, I will NEED mercs who can WIN the ground fight. I do not just want them to act like retards, and shoot everything, but not bother to cap any of the objectives just because it's "time consuming." Either you win, or you get fired/ replaced with someone better. No free rides in New Eden. That's my opinion on this matter.
Noob Noobuler Algintal Core Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.09.29 01:01:00 - [19] - Quote pew pew youredead wrote: people who hide with dropships on towers exploiting the swarms not touching them should not get paid for not playing the game you musta seen me :).on a sidenote,i dont do much,i always use them to repair my ships or i wanna wait something out
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.09.29 01:05:00 - [20] - Quote chances are, if you lose every match you play, you wont be getting very many contracts. yea, Win/loss will appear on your profile for EVE players to see.

Noob Noobuler Algintal Core Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.09.29 01:06:00 - [21] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Noob Noobuler wrote: no.it is a contract win or lose.they pay you to fight.i and they pay you based on how well you did win or lose..if this did happen yall will be whining qhwn you kill34 people and have 2 deaths saying you didnt get paid or sp for the kills or captures Contracts are given to you, those contracts are your payments to WIN. Just fighting isn't good enough. If i'm a part of a super massive battle that could decide the fate of some system, I will want - no, I will NEED mercs who can WIN the ground fight. I do not just want them to act like retards, and shoot everything, but not bother to cap any of the objectives just because it's "time consuming." Either you win, or you get fired/ replaced with someone better. No free rides in New Eden. That's my opinion on this matter. win or you die..in real life maybe..sometimes people pay contracts in advance or a part of the contract as a bonus(like nfl) but we still don't know whats up with the contracts etc. in gameplay and all
VanguardCommander Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 48	Posted - 2012.09.29 01:31:00 - [22] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Im fed up with idiots on this game. In my opinion you should get no payout after a match when you lost it. To give people a motivation to actually play the objective. Its more interesting to see people actually putting up a fight and not just sit in their redline and go: "duh im gonna snipe the whole day with my militia sniper rifle and do nothing else". SP however should stay where it is after all you played and gained experience be it if you won or lost. And for the n00bs out there this is how to win these game modes: skirmish: controll more objectives then the enemy to blow up the enemy MCC. YES THIS MEANS YOU NEED TO CONTROLL 2 ADDITIONAL OBJECTIVES INSTEAD OF JUST THE LETTER THATS THE CLOSEST TO YOUR REDLINE! AND IF YOU CANT COUNT THATS 3 OBJECTIVES YOU DERPFACES! AND YES THE OBJECTIVES THAT YOUR TEAM HAS ARE BLUE AND THE OBJECTIVES FROM THE ENEMY ARE RED! Ambush: basically TDM means that you should NOT DIE BY NO MATTERS! And not going 0-11 and causing your team to loose. Oh and have fun discussing the no payout thingy and let me know your opinion about it. Thanks. faceplam that the most craziest thing i hear would you be ok with losing money from dying and to receive no money cause you loss the match how are people suppose to maintain their favorite setup its like your asking EVERYONE to go sniper so they die less
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.29 01:45:00 - [23] - Quote I think contracts should have a minimum fee. I.E. what you still get paid for failure. If you don't pay people anything at all for failure, everyone will go broke. Good team die less, win more. Bad team dies more loses more. We really would like large player numbers, so I think these NPC style contracts should still pay out. Then they can HTFU and get into low sec - null sec. Where failure means more than just not getting paid.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.09.29 08:48:00 - [24] - Quote Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: I think best way to do it would be to have a up front 50% pay out for accepting the contract and upon completing the job we get the additional 50% + bonuses for performing with distinction, Some contracts wont be a fight to win it will be a get in their and cost the enemy as much as possible in a traditional TDM this would likely be a negative KDR but as for effeiceince you could cost them millions for only a few hundered thousand these missions could be used to say bleed the enemy dry before a proper strike to take a base, Also if loosing team get no isk then they can not get better gear so the next match will be a total masacer, the nopay out for no win could work if their was a full sized PVE side to DUST but as it stands their isnt Like i care. I dont know how its in EVE but i dont think that you get a big reward for loosing your ship there. And after all i still see alot of people running in militia gear even at the end of this build. And if the other team is just a bunch of morons who dont want to fight they deserve it to be destroyed.
Mosova 1	Posted - 2012.09.29 09:00:00 - [25] - Quote I agree, I feel it adds to what the game is. A player is taking on the role of a contracted/hired Mercenary and as such, if a Merc does not follow through or complete their objectives....they dont get paid.
Ydubbs81 RND 48	Posted - 2012.09.29 13:03:00 - [26] - Quote I can't agree with this. If they make it even harder for new players to compete, then this game will have the same numbers post-release that it has in the beta. It is much harder for a new player to successfullly compete in DUST than in most other fps'. Guys will just delete it off their ps3 after getting smoked consistently. Even good players are placed on loser teams, game after game. I would agree with a reduction in ISK for the loser....and at the same time rewarding the most ISK to the players with the most wp points. That should cause guys to go after those points if they want to make ISK, rather than earning nothing even if you fought a hard game but lost.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.09.29 13:57:00 - [27] - Quote This issue will be solved once Corps (those formed by players) are active. If you want a solid team join one, if you don't then try your luck with random players. No mechanics change needed, just know that once the game is live this won't be an issue.
knight of 6 26	Posted - 2012.09.29 14:07:00 - [28] - Quote REDUNDANT THREAD old thread same topic
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.09.29 14:08:00 - [29] - Quote I would agree but no I have no control over the randoms i get put with, i cannot control them, i cannot boot them, i cannot do anything with them, i cannot even TK them if i wished to All i can do is make sure im doing okay because randoms aint gonna help me because they are ******* useless Im not getting punished in high sec because of retards
Lasarte Ioni Noob Gaming 72	Posted - 2012.09.29 14:40:00 - [30] - Quote wow, i love how ppl talk about contracts like if this was real life contracts or something. Let me explain why this suggestion isn't viable from the 2 perspectives; game side and RL side: Gaming side: A quick-battle chat log: Quote: "OMG, we're gonna lose this, ** this i'm out" -n00biekitten has disconnected- -poorguy has connected- "wuuuut??? wtf is this *, it's sooooo lost, i ain't even trying" -poorguy has disconnected-.... And so on. You could like it first (if you are in the winning team), but after a whole evening of 16 vs 5, it may become boring (if you have some competitive spirit) Also, it would be almost fair if the ?contractor? would give you the equipment, but as it is now, would you play to lose isk? (atm militia is free, but I've heard that, when the game goes gold militial will be bpc's with a very low price (few 100's isk) RL side: Note: i think it's stupid comparing a game with reality, but since a lot of ppl are using reality as an argument, here it goes. Nobody EVER does a job BEFORE getting the money or a part of it or at least having a contract telling they will get some no matter what, you are not wasting time and resources, just to fail and hear the hiring guy telling you: "ohh so bad, well, no money for you, i'm gonna hire some other ppl and offer them YOUR money" This also has gaming balancing issues; a successful defender loses money each time he holds a district, while the attacker will only lose money when he actually wins* (thats like.. SO fair...) * Last, a soldier gets paid for his time on duty (i don't know if some bonus for deployment) a mercenary is a soldier, that self-maintains himself (meaning the army doesn't pay his equipment or training) which means he's usually more affordable than a soldier or has better training. Now, imagine you only get paid for winning a battle: What is winning? make the enemy retreat, not losing a building, capture that rebel leader? getting into a fight that you know nothing of, getting only paid if you "win" is inviting other ppl to scam you. tl;dr: NOBODY does nothing (even losing) for free, if you feel bad about losing, return the isk to your contractor and put it in your BIO, you'll get contracted by in no time (and maybe not all of them scammers)

tribal wyvern ZionTCD Legacy Rising 673	Posted - 2012.09.29 14:48:00 - [31] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Im fed up with idiots on this game. In my opinion you should get no payout after a match when you lost it. To give people a motivation to actually play the objective. Its more interesting to see people actually putting up a fight and not just sit in their redline and go: "duh im gonna snipe the whole day with my militia sniper rifle and do nothing else". SP however should stay where it is after all you played and gained experience be it if you won or lost. And for the n00bs out there this is how to win these game modes: skirmish: controll more objectives then the enemy to blow up the enemy MCC. YES THIS MEANS YOU NEED TO CONTROLL 2 ADDITIONAL OBJECTIVES INSTEAD OF JUST THE LETTER THATS THE CLOSEST TO YOUR REDLINE! AND IF YOU CANT COUNT THATS 3 OBJECTIVES YOU DERPFACES! AND YES THE OBJECTIVES THAT YOUR TEAM HAS ARE BLUE AND THE OBJECTIVES FROM THE ENEMY ARE RED! Ambush: basically TDM means that you should NOT DIE BY NO MATTERS! And not going 0-11 and causing your team to loose. Oh and have fun discussing the no payout thingy and let me know your opinion about it. Thanks. Why should you not get paid? If you show up but don't win you should still get paid. An individual should not be penalized because his side didn't win. Fact is ...you show up...you get paid, not as much as when you WIN...but you still get something. do you think the military don't get paid if they go to war but have to retreat? No they get paid either way, they even get paid when not deployed. Edit: An easier way around it is for each player to get a payout based on their contribution I.e if they die 10 times but only get two kills then they should get less payout than those who died two times with ten kills. Only on ambush though.
Raynor Ragna 266	Posted - 2012.09.29 14:53:00 - [32] - Quote My guess is that contracts will have two payouts. A fee for the battle itself and a bonus for a win. When creating contracts in eve, you'll want to add the fee perportional to what you'd like fielded (5m isk will get you standard ground troops, 15m isk will get you some tanks fielded). No mercs would accept a contract if they wouldn't be compensated for a loss.
knight of 6 26	Posted - 2012.09.29 15:07:00 - [33] - Quote an open ended letter to everyone advocating this. I'd like to see you stay financially solvent... currently if you win or lose you get (my average, yours may vary) 150,000 ISK. I probably spend 100,000 on equipment alone, which leaves a net profit of 50,000 ISK. now lets say you earn 0 ISK if you lose. that means that in ORDER TO BREAK EVEN, no profit what-so-ever, you have to win 50% of your matches. that doesn't sound too bad at first but think about it, lets say you win 3 out of 4 matches (75%, well over the necessary profit) that's 50,000 ISK profit. okay, 50,000 ISK profit for 4 matches work, each match lasts about 12 minutes so 4 matches take 48 minutes, that's 62500 ISK an hour. now lets say you want a tank, a nice one, that's around 1.6 mill at our current rate getting a nice tank will take 25.6 hours that is over one day.does that sound reasonable to you? this isn't COD, lets use our thinker box on occasion, please?
knight of 6 26	Posted - 2012.09.29 15:08:00 - [34] - Quote repost sorry internet is bad today... :(
Will Navidson2 Doomheim 6	Posted - 2012.09.29 15:52:00 - [35] - Quote Ok so really you are all second to none and king of shooters. You all will be second best to someone if not worse. So let's say your corp is the second best in all of dust but you continue receiving contracts against the best. This of course because the corp that hired you couldnt have the best so they all ways have to use you. You can never beat the best because you never win therefore never get paid. Does this sound right to anyone? The fact is we are mercs we get paid to show up , if we win great, victories is what counts. If we lose at least we can buy stuff to get better. If you want to complain about blue dots in a match then don't go in a match without your team. Contracts will be your corp only anyway. I say let this go and move on.


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