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My take on Swarms and Dropships

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Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.09.23 19:56:00 - [1] - Quote This is my whine thread. I'mma just throw this out there, Swarms are overpowered and now I'm just pretty tired of it. I play as a Dropship Pilot, I enjoy it and I actually enjoy ferrying people about. A lot of the time, if I get taken out, its by a Swarm, but not a good one, a simple bloody militia one. To the people that say "OBVIOUSLY YOU SHOULD DO BETTER!!!111!" I stick my middle finger up. It isn't feasible. I've seen some players do well against swarms but I'll speak on my experiences Literally a minute ago, I was flying low to avoid swarms while I dropped people off, the swarm flew above me, went past me and then went straight down and back towards me. It smashed me into the ground and killed everyone, great shot. But this isn't every now and then, it's constant. A Dropship is a complete deathtrap to anyone insane enough to actually be a passenger. Two militia level swarms is enough to do me in, one if I'm by the ground or a build because I'll get smashed into a wall or ground itself. Something needs to be done, in the AV v Tank forumwar we seemed to have, everybody forgot about the Dropships. When we're dealing with AVs, instead of going "Durr, GIF MOAR DAMAGE TO KILL MOAR TANKS!", think about the consequences for the other vehicles, okay, Tanks were OP but giving AVs even more power has screwed up LAVs and Dropships to point of stupidity. Nerf the AV Damage OR increase Dropships armor/shielding, Do not do both like you did with the tanks, just adjust one or the other. Reduce the knockback slightly, Its insanely strong, which is cool but I feel it needs a slight reduction, keep at something we fear but not something that will outright annihilate us.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.23 20:17:00 - [2] - Quote If you can't control knock back of swarms there is a simple answer: USAF YOU SUCK AT FLYING
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.23 21:10:00 - [3] - Quote Heh, I like that. But yeah, you need to work on your flying technique, Jason. We have a thread for it even. I just did my first match in a long time with my normal gunner, and we spent the whole time dodging swarms and forge shots while pulling off a decent (albeit not great) number of kills.
Whispercrow Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.09.23 21:27:00 - [4] - Quote I know it's not very EVE-like, but there need to be some sort of countermeasures, like ECM or Flares or something. As a module for the pilot. Of course, what I'm really wondering is if this is the job for the as-yet-unreleased AFTERBURNER modules which may help you get out of dodge and outrun the missiles.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.09.23 21:52:00 - [5] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: If you can't control knock back of swarms there is a simple answer: USAF YOU SUCK AT FLYING Straight up baddie. I can control the knockback, but when it smashes me into the ground immediately killing everything, I see an issue. Piloting is about skill, I like that, I come from a game which is about skill of the player, this is something I enjoy. Sees-Too-Much wrote: Heh, I like that. But yeah, you need to work on your flying technique, Jason. We have a thread for it even. I just did my first match in a long time with my normal gunner, and we spent the whole time dodging swarms and forge shots while pulling off a decent (albeit not great) number of kills. Eh, I've read it quite a bit, but its true though, whilst the Tanks and the AVs have been forum warrioring, we've been hung out to dry. No doubt a lot of pilots such as yourself are much better at piloting than I am, it's just very frustrating to lose your ship due to a free Militia Swarm which hurts real bad. I try to do what they intend dropships to do, pick up troops, drop them off, but you go high, you get hit by Forge Guns and Swarm, you go low and you get hit by swams and sent into the ground. Whispercrow wrote: I know it's not very EVE-like, but there need to be some sort of countermeasures, like ECM or Flares or something. As a module for the pilot. Of course, what I'm really wondering is if this is the job for the as-yet-unreleased AFTERBURNER modules which may help you get out of dodge and outrun the missiles. I believe I've read somewhere that flares, or something are coming next build, but like I said above, piloting is very frustrating. It's a very risky thing with little to no reward.
wathak 514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2012.09.24 03:30:00 - [6] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: Heh, I like that. But yeah, you need to work on your flying technique, Jason. We have a thread for it even. I just did my first match in a long time with my normal gunner, and we spent the whole time dodging swarms and forge shots while pulling off a decent (albeit not great) number of kills. Alright try landing and picking up troops like it says in ur job dscription see how those endless numbers of swarms have piled up behind u since they dont die out. Afterburners pisht where would the speed come in i cross the maps in secounds anyways at current top speed of 10m/s not to mention i can already outrun swarms all dam day aslong as i keep that speed Insight into my fight Grimsness/prometheus Duel rep duel armor resist amps Dmg control Shield extender Call me an idiot but that takes up all the low slots on eather gallente ship exceeds lows on a caldari but caldari are shield tank so they can fit passive modules that increase there top speed but wait im outrunning missiles in a galente armor tanked ds with bas3 max speed so why would any pilot need more speed Again dudes practice does make perfect but swarms are to dam powerful with my fit u can do the math if u wish but i know i can only take 3 hits at most no matter the swarm launcher they got me down in 3 hits or less Missiles dont burn out Missiles make 90degree turns and dont lose tracking Missiles fallows ur flight path to the t avoiding every building u try to smash them into Shall i go on If anyof u want to question my flying capabilities know i have been flying none stop since i joined beta during the previous build when we had dummy physics as soon as the new physics came i was downloading training and flying militia dropships took me 3 trys to pretty mutch master the physics If ud like a example u got my name attached to this post message me add me to contacts i will squad up with u and fly or u may watch for me in enemy teams as i will dogfight
Noob Noobuler Algintal Core Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.09.24 03:49:00 - [7] - Quote as a dropship pilot myself, i think it basically useless to flynow bc of the swarms.i only fly a dropship if im just bored and sniping from a mcc(which works)i agree with what you are saying 100%
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.24 03:55:00 - [8] - Quote As a rule I don't let anyone into my dropship who thinks "u" is a word, but to cover your actual points: Dropships are primarily for rapid insertion, not rapid extraction. Even before the vehicle/AV rebalance landing near any reasonably large group of hostile troops was suicide. You transport by bringing troops over the target, letting them jump out from high enough to use their inertial damps, and then you leave only to return when they've cleared the area and are ready to be taken to their next destination. Yes, swarms are powerful against dropships. They are the counter to aircraft, we would expect them to be powerful against dropships. This isn't a bug, it's exactly the way the game should work. Being a pilot isn't supposed to be risk-free. Missiles absolutely DO burn out, and you can make them hit a building if you duck around one before they're right on your ass. So yeah, go on. Because as it is I most certainly do "question [your] flying capabilities". I fly too, and I don' t have these problems nearly as bad as you.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.09.24 05:27:00 - [9] - Quote With the AV buff and the vehicle module nerf it is indeed difficult to keep a dropship in the air for long. Kill a few folks and they come back with a free militia swarm launcher. People take delight in shooting you down now when they used to have a bit of fear. I personally find it easy to down any dropship I see flying with my militia swarm launcher inside one minute of spawning with it. On most maps it is difficult to break line of sight with every enemy sporting a launcher. Fly for fun if you want, but don't expect to break even ISK wise. Next build a number of your complaints will be addressed. CCP told me that they are interested in making piloting a valued role, so I expect to see a little love cast our way.
Wolf Ritter vonKaldari Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.09.24 05:57:00 - [10] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: This is my whine thread. I don't care, you are essentially a transport helicopter pilot, if you expect to take a hit from an anti-vehicle with a transport helicopter then you deserve all the swarm griefing you get.

Patches The Hyena 204	Posted - 2012.09.24 06:06:00 - [11] - Quote Yeah I agree OP. I made a thread during the AV vs Tank debate trying to remind CCP to consider the plight of the dropship pilot before they took action but they did not. We were in a relatively decent balance with AV before the patch and now we're just screwed. Every dropship I've brought out since the patch has been summarily demolished by swarms, and I have a 5200 shield eHP Myron, and every dropship I've seen brought out by anyone else has suffered the same fate. The only way to effectively keep a DS in the air is to concentrate entirely on dodging the endless barrage of swarms with no time to actually do your job, or treat your DS like a disposable transport which doesn't jive with its 500k+ price tag.
Craig Greenway 21	Posted - 2012.09.24 06:31:00 - [12] - Quote Patches The Hyena wrote: Yeah I agree OP. I made a thread during the AV vs Tank debate trying to remind CCP to consider the plight of the dropship pilot before they took action but they did not. We were in a relatively decent balance with AV before the patch and now we're just screwed. Every dropship I've brought out since the patch has been summarily demolished by swarms, and I have a 5200 shield eHP Myron, and every dropship I've seen brought out by anyone else has suffered the same fate. The only way to effectively keep a DS in the air is to concentrate entirely on dodging the endless barrage of swarms with no time to actually do your job, or treat your DS like a disposable transport which doesn't jive with its 500k+ price tag. What's the average price of a LAV in comparison to a dropship? LAVs die almost instantly with 1 hit from a militia heavy, sounds like you just need to max out your dropship shields and rechargers? P.S. I'm an infrequent flyer...
Billi Gene Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 130	Posted - 2012.09.24 08:30:00 - [13] - Quote anytime now the new build is supposed to hit. "apparently" dropships will get =/=20% EHP buff. "probably" will also get ECM/chaff modules vs swarms. 'living in hope" because drops ships are a little too easy to drop now....
V1RONXSS AL0NE Inc. 4	Posted - 2012.09.24 10:21:00 - [14] - Quote I would say there still ppl who can fit theyr non millitia DS properly and those r not so easy to bring them down...
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.24 12:05:00 - [15] - Quote I had two Myron fits. One had an mCRU for when I felt like picking up randoms and the other was just fit for tank and speed. The tanky one, not having to spend 160 PG on the spawn point, used mostly azeotropic extenders. It can still take three swarms and be fine. As I've mentioned before, the resist nerf and AV buff didn't change a vehicle's survivability in terms of "shots required to kill" too drastically. All it did was make people actually willing to use their free swarm launchers. I said it before, I'll repeat it now: HAVs only seemed OP because no one was willing to fight them.
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2012.09.24 22:20:00 - [16] - Quote As an AV, I totally agree. Dropships were kind of weak to AV before the hotfix, and now it's worse. But what needs to happen most is a tactical buff on dropships, meaning specialized countermeasures. I'd like dropships to be relatively safe when they're picking up troops from home base in a skirmish map (or other map that has distinct drop zones), and much less safe when flying around the middle of the combat zone. I think the best way to do this is a landing pad with a localized anti-missile installation and protection from line-of-sight forge gun attacks (only applicable, of course, when the ship is grounded and picking up soldiers). Sees-Too-Much wrote: I said it before, I'll repeat it now: HAVs only seemed OP because no one was willing to fight them. I agree with a lot of what you say, but this is simply untrue. In hindsight, though, I regret supporting a patch to solve the problem instead of waiting for the next build. One of our problems is that, when tanks were overpowered, the drivers told everyone to kitten off and skill up their AV, so everyone and their mother used the 2M bonus SP to up their AV skills. At the same time, AV and HAVs got a hotfix rebalance. So now everyone has the ability to fight the no-longer-overpowered HAVs, with the consequence that now everybody can also shoot down dropships and LAVs. Hopefully a reset will see a lot fewer people skilling up AV, which should ease the problem a little bit. It doesn't ease the problem of militia swarm launchers--although my opinion on those starts to get off topic, so I'll just simplify and say I don't believe in free AV.


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