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Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
   |
Posted - 2012.09.19 00:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I like the complexity of the skills system....but I'm not impressed with the game modes or the player counts in them....
Since playing in battles for hours at a time on Planetside 2, where there were at least 60 vs 60 with tons of armor and aircraft, a battle front that stretched some four hundred metres, I just can't stand the huge dust maps with the hide and seek games that we have at present.
The PS2 battle I refer to was what I spawned into, I played for over two hours in that same battle, on the same battle front trying to push the line forward right up until I stopped playing. The battle no doubt continued without me. The whole concept of "rounds" or matches is out the window. The war keeps going perpetually.
Now compare dust - I play last night and there are games where they are 1 vs 1? Then there are games with up to 12 v 12 but they last for 20 seconds? There were games where the game ended in twenty seconds and the clone counts were like 60/59. Yeah its a beta. I know. So is the other game.
Complexity is great, but its gotta actually work and what worries me about dust is that there are a lot of basic problems even with low player counts and that does not bode well considering the level of complexity that is being built. That complexity is just not going to translate well if the numbers are limited on huge maps. |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 04:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wolf Ritter vonKaldari wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:CoD, BF3, MAG One of these things is not like the other.
I wonder, can you guess which one? |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 10:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Playing ps2 during the day and dust in the afternoon and evening, I just can't compare the two....
Ps2 is far better game play, there are no "rounds" or "matches"....
Also the graphics are much better in ps2 than dust...yeah I know its PC but even MAG had better graphics than dust and MAG was considered to be bad graphics relative to other fps like cod and bf3....
Dust needs so much work its amazing that this is beta...
Edit: now that i think about it more, while the skill system is great, even though its complex, in the context of entertaining game play it just doesn't cut through...maybe dust is too much too soon...they may be trying to pull off too much at once and that's why core game play and graphics are suffering, because a lot of time goes into the back end around the skills and market...which is fine by the way.....but if the core doesn't improve it won't matter if the skill system and market are top notch because people won't play in the first place because the core game play and graphics stink....I hope they fix it up and prove me wrong, I really do... |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:and thus know a bit about how development works?
Lol. Enlighten me.
The point remains - there is a lot of work going on to balance skills, tweak the market, nerf stats or attributes on items. All fine.
But the game play, graphics and player count still suck compared to most other fps games, whether on ps3 or other platform.
Let's face it, we've seen a lot of changes to everything other than graphics, core game play and player count. The things I mention have changed the least and these things are at the core of all fps, like it or not.
If those three things have not improved much by launch then I fear that the game will be unpopular.
Edit: And I've been playing games since the early 1980's. First console was a Mattel Intellivision. And I'm a chief software architect IRL for a global. So take your playing games for 20 years and development experience and put it into context - were not all kids here even though we may behave like kids sometimes. |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:whats the TLDR of this thread?
Thinking is hard? i got about 2 paragraphs into the OP and my eyes glazed over.
Tldr is that the skills and market is very complicated and while that is not in itself bad, the core gameplay, graphics and player counts are not good. |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:
Do me a favor and Google beta.
OK.
From Wikipedia.
Alpha
The alpha phase of the release life cycle is the first phase to begin software testing (alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, used as the number 1). In this phase, developers generally test the software using white box techniques. Additional validation is then performed using black box or gray box techniques, by another testing team. Moving to black box testing inside the organization is known as alpha release.[2]
Alpha software can be unstable and could cause crashes or data loss. The exception to this is when the alpha is available publicly (such as a pre-order bonus), in which developers normally push for stability so that their testers can test properly. External availability of alpha software is uncommon in proprietary software. However, open source software, in particular, often have publicly available alpha versions, often distributed as the raw source code of the software. The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be feature complete.
Beta
Beta (named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet) is the software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the software is feature complete. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing. The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it.
The users of a beta version are called beta testers. They are usually customers or prospective customers of the organization that develops the software, willing to test the software without charge, often receiving the final software free of charge or for a reduced price. Beta version software is often useful for demonstrations and previews within an organization and to prospective customers. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, prototype, technical preview (TP), or early access. Some software is kept in perpetual betaGÇöwhere new features and functionality are continually added to the software without establishing a firm "final" release.
Open and closed beta
Developers release either a closed beta or an open beta; closed beta versions are released to a restricted group of individuals for a user test by invitation, while open beta testers are from a larger group, or anyone interested. The testers report any bugs that they find, and sometimes suggest additional features they think should be available in the final version. Examples of a major public beta test are:
Open betas serve the dual purpose of demonstrating a product to potential consumers, and testing among an extremely wide user base likely to bring to light obscure errors that a much smaller testing team might not find.
OK. So as you can see, alphas have stability issues, data loss and crashes. Sounds familiar. Invalid fittings, anyone? Hard lock, anyone?
Betas are used to test software that is feature complete - read and understand what that means. It means that core functions are ready, but need volume stress tests to identify bugs that cannot be identified internally by the developer due to not having the ability to generate large volumes of test metrics. This is achieved by open or public beta, or by controlled closed beta.
What we have with dust, is software where the core functions are still being refined, but the developer has chosen to move to beta stage despite stability issues in the core which technically mean that what we are testing is a later variant of an alpha build.
The reasoning for this is simple, the software is not yet feature complete, so by definition, it cannot be a beta.
That's going by the book of sdlc. |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kengfa wrote:
Come on, you quoted paragraphs of the definition and still got it wrong.
Nah. I'm right. I still see SoonGäó in the game, do you? That means that the build is not feature complete, which means by definition it cannot be a beta.
Beta is bug testing feature complete builds.
The fact that new elements are still being added to core game play means that the only reason that this is in closed beta testing is because ccp do not have the resources t generate the volume of test metric data internally to perform proper quality assurance of the core.
Each time a new core element is added the software is somewhere between alpha and beta, depending if the application is feature locked and ready for volume stress test.
When all SoonGäó vanishes, then it will be a true beta..... |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:What makes you think that people will wait more time to get from Dust 514 what other games can deliver now...especially with 2 shooter MMO coming in 2013 on console.
I don't feel any loyalty towards CCP, especially after participating to this beta.
If their product is poor I won't wait for them to fix it: it will just play games of developers I trust and let Dust die.
For my part, I reckon I will play PS2 more than dust if dust does not get better. |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:^^^
Gaikai is coming on Playstation and with it eventually PlanetSide 2 which is a SOE game and Sony already brought a SOE MMO on PS3.
I also think that if (more likely when) dust fails to captivate on ps3, that ccp will release on PC. Its much more natural fit on PC and they could deliver the scale and complexity of dust on a much more capable platform. I strongly suspect the agreement with Sony will have an out clause on the exclusivity based on some commercial criteria.
Lets see, only time will tell. I hope it is a ps3 success but odds aren't good.
Edit: if ps2 comes to ps3 even with lower numbers then its going to be called MAG 2...I'd play that! |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 21:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would also suggest that bundling with the new PS slim is a bad idea. Imagine, you are new to ps3, you buy a new slim and get this beta. Does not exactly demonstrate the ps3 capabilities very well. I'd be very disappointed if I was to get his game with a new ps3, the way the game is now.
It just looks and plays horrible, low player counts, poor gun play, game modes with no imagination.
if it doesn't change by launch, it will have a cult following but will never be a game played by the masses with any regularity.... |
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