I dunno, as it stands now, I can't imagine the masses adopting to this game very well. There is just too much complexity and complications, most people simply want to relax and have fun when playing online... not to eat, sleep, and breath a game 24 hours a day 7 days a week in order to make even the slightest bit of progress.

I'm sure we all think similarly of the COD games, but we cannot deny the success of such games. A COD game is simple, relatively easy for newcomers to learn, yet deep and complex enough to give dedicated players something to work at and strive for if they feel the need. Gameplay is consistent, and controls are rock-solid and reliable.

Dust 514 just doesn't come off as the type of game that an average-Joe player is going to pick up on and keep playing. I am pretty dedicated when it comes to complex/deep games, I always love a good RPG! But Dust 514 is laying it on a bit thick. You spend 1-2 weeks trying to upgrade one single skill to get that favorite something you have been looking forward to, only to find out that when you do get the 2 million SP to finally upgrade, that now you have 20 other things that need to be specialized, purchased and upgraded in order to successfully put that skill to use.

Here is an example. I wanted to get slightly better shields, so I worked my butt off using nothing but militia gear (starter kits) to get all the proper SP and skills to obtain a shield extender that simply gives me 66 extra HP. Well, turns out that I can't just use that shield extender with a starter kit (not enough PG), so I now have to buy a dropsuit, and equip that dropsuit with purchased weapons/ability's, that I previously GOT FOR FREE. Now each time I die, I have to spend something like 60,000 ISK, all for a measly 66HP extra to my shields, which essentially amounts to nothing. (which is actually only 44 extra HP cause I already had +22HP militia shields). Seriously???

Developers need to learn from the COD platform and improve, not try to reinvent the wheel. If i want to upgrade my skills so I can have a shield that gives me 66 extra HP, I should be able to do that without having to buy a whole new dropsuit, and a plethora of weapons and additional skills in order to use thus new shield upgrade. Quite simply, I should be able to add that new shield to my starter kit layout, and only have to pay for the replacement of that shield. As it stands now, i have to buy a new dropsuit, buy all my weapons, grenades, and anything else that I previously got for free just so I can use one single shield upgrade that is nearly useless and took me 1-2 weeks to acquire.

Bottom line is, this game needs a LOT more permanent blueprints and more starter-kit dropuits that can be upgraded. Having to constantly buy every weapon and every item we use for each time we spawn is horribly inconvenient and annoying. That is not how you do upgrades in a FPS online game.

I'm sorry but you are wrong to try to suggest making DUST into just another COD. Games that do that are the very reason why I don't play any other cookie cutter game that tries to be cod. DUST is not meant to be a cookie cutter game. It is meant to break the traditional mold of first person shooters and create a new competitive game that will usher in a new era of gaming.

Unreal Tournament is a clear example. It was a ground breaking game that later became the gold standard that other games like cod will be based on. Eve alone is achieving something similar as guild wars 2 is now basing its in game economic model on that of Eve online. DUST has the potential to usher in something new that other shooters failed to achieve.

Making DUST into a cookie cutter game is not ground breaking.

Kill this thread. You dumb this down me and all my friends quit.

I really dont want to sound mean but maybe watching TV would be more you.
Dont take away the only shooter that needs a little thinking now and again.

The thinking is in fitting your suit, vehicle in accordance with how you chose to level up, and doing it effectively. The other fps are "drop in, push start, go".

The game is still in beta and it will grow in complexity even after release

Dude your not worth it sorry just move on or hang around and be a troll either is fine with me.

Just write somthing like "see no one has said anything detailed and I am right your all wrong" and bam you win the internets for a day.

Why dont you just go back to battlefield? You ignore my response, then continue to cry about no response. Am I mistaken? Or does battlefield make you think about earning money/isk, budgeting said isk so you can afford the skill books necessary to.specialize, all while keeping enough bank roll to afford weapons. Then making sure you skill turrets as well as HAV. Then making sure you dont skill all armor and than go buy a caldari HAV? You have your answer troll, go away.

Respond to this beast

I don't understand why we have to "prove" why this game is more complex. The OP is the one who brought up how "hard it is" to understand. Your posting in this thread why? To defend that it's easy?


Like most here I have played/own the COD/BF/Borderland titles. Are they fun? Yup.

BUT I also am looking for an FPS that has a little something extra. DUST has it. Whether you are just trolling or have blinders on and don't want to believe it, ok.

DUST will be the first ever PC/PS3 (Console?) crossover FPS on the market. Groundbreaking.

DUST lets you choose a multitude of suits/modules/weapons to CREATE your character. Does COD/BF3 let you create anything? No... They let you "alter" some things, the rest is how it is, take it or leave it.

Meta game (look it up), enough said.


For all of us that have ever wanted a tactical team based type of FPS, this is also in DUST's wheelhouse.


Basically OP and Beast, your arguments fall on deaf ears. Most posting in here love the depth and complexity that DUST provides. When this game releases, it might not go over like the bigger franchises, it will probably do just what EVE has done. Slowly building a large player base that is extremely loyal that trusts CCP to develop more/better content (fix what they admit they mess up) and will consistently grow.


If you or others like you can't see the potential of this game, nothing anyone says will sway you.

Core shooter gameplay will always be the same. Do you want to have to not point and shoot? Are you asking to roll dice or play a match game, its a shooter.

You could have said this 4 pages ago ..faceplam

No idea this is my first FPS game but its the same all over you shoot somthing and it gets hurt.

Edit: hmmm its a little like saying war is not complex because it is always the same you kill each other.

No hard feelings I hope beast, I can be a kitten sometimes. Stick around for release and I am sure you will enjoy.

TL;DR

all they need to do to bring along casuals is launch the game with arena battles

ARENA BATTLES
-8v8
-Smaller maps / close quarters maps
-Capture The Flag / King of The Hill / Team Death Match
-Everyone uses Militia gear
-Matchmaking & Customs

Just have it so people can easily log on and play arena battles whenever very easily, no need to worries about ISK or SP very much. Then as people begin to like the game and get into it and get more competitive, they can branch out into High Sec, then Low Sec and Null Sec.

"Too much depth and complexity?"

this is why i like dust...

the complexity and depth is an "idiot filter" for this game

also i like games whitch have a learning curve

The thing is this game is really not complete yet. There are still some features that I've yet to see implemented that could require a lot of thinking. Until then, we are just speculating on the level of complexity required. If I may, perhaps I can answer this gentleman's question.

The core mechanics are that of the unreal engine. That is the core mechanic. I guess we are forgetting that the proper term to use is core features such a player dominated economy just like that of Eve online. Then there is the emergent gameplay which competes against theme park style games like call of duty. Then there is the industry and logistics that will soon be involved with DUST corps. Does that help?

The reason I am here is because of the deep complexity, the plethora of dropsuits, modules, weapon types, tactical warfare, networking, and most importantly having fun with my fellow hard core mercs. I personally have always dreamed of a FPS where the battles mattered long after the match. Where players behaviors and actions were held accountable if they wanted to be respected and trusted amongst there peers. Where player skill tree possibilities are so large and grand in scale that no 2 players are the same. That is why I am here and I'm sure other feel my passion.

Dust is not meant to grab the casual gamer but that doesn't mean CCP should stop trying to being in casual players and turn them into hardcore players.

I think the complexity of Dust is a good thing and I welcome more.

I play BF3 and can say many of us welcome such complexity.

There are a lot of tactically oriented FPSers out there who will eat this game up (if combat is polished more).

I think you can make Dust 514 into a deep and complex game and still make it accessible. In fact we need that. Because we need grunts! There's a good chance that every respectable corp in Dust is going to have a few KDR mentality focused killing machines in their ranks. So the geeks can drop them into a fight and keep the other team bleeding while taking care of objectives.

Make it easy for people to jump into the game and have fun, make it hard to master. What's wrong with that?

Oh look! Someone who truly does NOT get it quoting someone who does.

DUST is not an FPS. DUST is not an MMO. We should all grieve that they chose to call it the sum of the two.

I believe CCP may not be trying to target every PSN member with DUST and they may not be targeting every FPS player on PSN with DUST. There are a LOT of those. Big market compared with EVE.

I wonder if the more realistic target market is the portion of the PSN FPS market that is 25-35 and looking for the next big thing. That might be a more realistic target market size.

But the cool thing about this business plan is the first and last word in business: Location Location Location

They are opening shop on top of the platform that hosts the whole PSN FPS market. As that big bunch ages they will have had exposure to "DUST", that cool but kinda complex and deep game that's been there while they've been playing CoD, BF3,XQM and whatnot.

If DUST can get a fair start with a moderate sustainable base it will be positioned to have ready access to the incoming player base.

Vikings takeover the world.

Playing ps2 during the day and dust in the afternoon and evening, I just can't compare the two....

Ps2 is far better game play, there are no "rounds" or "matches"....

Also the graphics are much better in ps2 than dust...yeah I know its PC but even MAG had better graphics than dust and MAG was considered to be bad graphics relative to other fps like cod and bf3....

Dust needs so much work its amazing that this is beta...

Edit: now that i think about it more, while the skill system is great, even though its complex, in the context of entertaining game play it just doesn't cut through...maybe dust is too much too soon...they may be trying to pull off too much at once and that's why core game play and graphics are suffering, because a lot of time goes into the back end around the skills and market...which is fine by the way.....but if the core doesn't improve it won't matter if the skill system and market are top notch because people won't play in the first place because the core game play and graphics stink....I hope they fix it up and prove me wrong, I really do...

Or perhaps we've played a lot more beta games than you guys, and thus know a bit about how development works?

Stopped reading at "learn from COD".

You've been trying out demos.

Try again when you've played games for quarter of a century or so.

Beast, you are correct. After reviewing many of your posts in this thread it is obvious that you are. Not in the "less complex, immediate simple gratification" camp regarding Dust

Mea Culpa

And to be honest, your overarching point, that we should learn from the core mechanics of other FPS games while pushing DUST to be 'all that it can be' is well taken

I wonder if the post earlier today from Cdr Wang (CCP updates & what they're working on) indicate effort in the right direction. Most of his bullets seemed to point towards tightening the gun game response and mechanics.