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mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
425
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Played a few matches earlier today, and decided to fool around with a few different ARs. Played with the tactical a little, played with burst a little, tried one of the salvage ARs, etc.
Made me realize, a couple builds ago we had an AR imbalance. The breach variants of all the tiers of ARs, were clearly OP. They had MUCH higher damage, better accuracy, and the slower rate of fire actually was a plus for most nubs. Reality is, even for the better players, the breach ARs were the better choice. Even though the fast ROF guns like the GEK-38 and Duvolle had a faster time-to-kill, the hit detection was so bad, that most of your rounds missed. Having the breach variant, you knew that atleast when they DID hit, it would hurt.
Hardly anyone used the regular ARs, the burst, and the tactical ARs.
Fast fwd a couple builds.
The breach ARs were SEVERELY nerfed. It's evident, because you hardly see them being used anymore. This nerf came from two sides.
1. There was the 8pt damage reduction to the breach variants. (i think it was 8, cant remember for sure)
2. The fast ROF ARs like the GEK38 and Duvolle, have become more usable, mainly because the hit detection has become a little better. (like a few of us predicted)
This combo has essentially made the choice of ARs pretty easy. GEK or Duvolle. Now noone uses the breach, and STILL almost noone uses the burst. While I do ocassionally see someone use the tactical, even that is few and far between.
Perhaps, CCP... in the next build, you could revisit AR "balancing". Perhaps try and dial-in some of the ARs so they become a viable option.
My personal suggestions...
-750RPM ARs (for lack of a better term) are fine. Their high ROF, make them deadly...especially now that the hit detection is improved. (and supposedly will improve more with the next patch)
-Burst ARs, should do same damage as 750RPM ARs, while keeping their higher ROF. This should (hopefully) help more of the rounds in each burst stay on target...making this the AR of choice for the "patient, precision guy"
-Tactical AR, I think is actually fine. Damage is good, ROF is a moot point, as most ppl can't spam R1 fast enough to take advantage of any high ROF. Can't remember what it's accuracy is off the top of my head, but it SHOULD have the highest accuracy of all the ARs.
-Breach AR should perhaps get a 4pt boost to damage. Not where it was before, but in between then and now. Also, the Credron, should get it's 42 round magazine back, vs the 36 it was reduced to. Doesn't make sense to spend triple the isk over the GB9 (advanced level breach) just to get a few more dmg pts, and 1 more accuracy pt. Give it back the extra 6 rounds, to make it worth the cost.
PS. Obviously this is low on the list, among other things that need rebalancing...just something to think about. |
Mejji Sez
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.09.17 16:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
The new Creodon AR is the Duvolle. With its ROF and damage, its become the new goto AR for folks, me included. Though the prototype burst AR is by far, IMO, the best AR in the game. Highly underrated and underused. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 16:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mejji Sez wrote:The new Creodon AR is the Duvolle. With its ROF and damage, its become the new goto AR for folks, me included. Though the prototype burst AR is by far, IMO, the best AR in the game. Highly underrated and underused.
TBH, now that hit detection is a little better, I don't mind the burst as much. Although I still think it's missing something. (that's why I suggested giving it a 3dmg pt boost to put it on par with the others) |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.09.17 16:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
1-2 more points in the tactical please. Also a slower rate of fire version with possibly slightly higher damage. |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 17:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Back when everyone was using the Creodron the Duvolle was still the AR of choice. Before this build with level V weaponry and level V AR proficiency the Creodron did a little over 500 DPS while the Duvolle did 585 DPS. Now the Creodron does a little over 400 DPS and the Duvolle does 585. The Breach ARs and SMGs are now a joke. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 17:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'd argue that the tactical rifle needs tweaking DOWN. If you CAN spam R1 (or left click on a mouse - the reason it needs to be dropped) it's crazy. I stopped using it because it's too accurate. Can't handle it. Went back to my 750rpm ARs. I'd like to add, I preferred the Duvolle over the creodon originally anyway, but no-one uses breach AR's anymore. They're just weak. |
Eskel Bondfree
DUST University
Ivy League
76
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Posted - 2012.09.17 17:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
The tactical AR would be fine if it had the same aiming sensitivity like other ARs when scoped in. As it is right now, it's quite hard to follow a moving target even with high sensitivity settings. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 20:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:I'd argue that the tactical rifle needs tweaking DOWN. If you CAN spam R1 (or left click on a mouse - the reason it needs to be dropped) it's crazy. I stopped using it because it's too accurate. Can't handle it. Went back to my 750rpm ARs. I'd like to add, I preferred the Duvolle over the creodon originally anyway, but no-one uses breach AR's anymore. They're just weak.
I've never been a fan of semiauto rifles... So i cant really comment too much on it. Breach is def weak. Typically i do like using burst weapns in a lot of fps, so i'd LOVE to see the burst get a buff. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.09.17 20:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:Back when everyone was using the Creodron the Duvolle was still the AR of choice. Before this build with level V weaponry and level V AR proficiency the Creodron did a little over 500 DPS while the Duvolle did 585 DPS. Now the Creodron does a little over 400 DPS and the Duvolle does 585. The Breach ARs and SMGs are now a joke.
Smgs, not so much because they're my go to smg for all my classes |
HowDidThatTaste
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2242
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Posted - 2012.09.17 21:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
I can always tell the duvolle rifle cause I'm dead in seconds.
I fear those! |
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Mejji Sez
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.09.17 22:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:I can always tell the duvolle rifle cause I'm dead in seconds.
I fear those!
Lies! You don't die... |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.09.17 22:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
breach weapons didn't need a damage nerf, they needed to lose the hipfire advantage.
a breach weapon without the hipfire advantage would fit the niche'/cliche' of "better at long range, worse up close"
with the hipfire advantage it was better at long range, better at hipfire range, and only ever worse at a small sweet spot in the middle.
1) restore damage (maybe not completely, since they've also nerfed high end suit defenses across the board.)
2) nerf hipfire
3) profit. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2012.09.17 22:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
The problem previously imho was the clip size/rof. You could empty a clip and reload and empty another while the other player just carried on shooting. The ability to never reload is under rated, but the damage Nerf killed the breach. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.09.18 01:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
the creodron may have had mag issues, but i'd say that was a creodron issue more than a breach issue. it used to have an extra 6 shots in the magazine compared to the other breach rifles. so i'd call that a fair nerf. |
Icy Tiger
496
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 01:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Burst AR's are definitely powerful. Slight tweaking may be in order though for accuracy while ADS. The Tactical is somewhat on the right track, but also needs love. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2012.09.18 02:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Meh i prefer the burst assault rifles espacially the advanced/prototype cause they fire 7 rounds so insane fast with only a damn short delay while still beeing accurate. I love the burst rifles helps me to conserve ammo aswell. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2012.09.18 02:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
I tried to use one of the burst ARs the other day while its nice and accurate and does nasty dmg with that burst, i've grown too used to a constant stream of fire i can track the target with, the breach ARs have certainly been nerfed out of existance, very rarely see ppl use them now days. |
EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.09.18 03:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:1-2 more points in the tactical please. Also a slower rate of fire version with possibly slightly higher damage. That be nice.
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EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.09.18 03:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Eskel Bondfree wrote:The tactical AR would be fine if it had the same aiming sensitivity like other ARs when scoped in. As it is right now, it's quite hard to follow a moving target even with high sensitivity settings. agreed ...
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EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.09.18 03:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:the creodron may have had mag issues, but i'd say that was a creodron issue more than a breach issue. it used to have an extra 6 shots in the magazine compared to the other breach rifles. so i'd call that a fair nerf. Agreed all other rifles only increase the damage slighly through the tiers.The creodron was THE gun that was the problem. |
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