DUST Search - Tanks revised: swarms

Patches The Hyena wrote:

Billi Gene wrote:

I-SHAYZ-I wrote:

About time someone agreed with me.

Swarms should be good against fast mobile objects such as the dropship and the LAVs but should have reduced damage versus tanks. Unless you team up with 2 or 3 guys to take down a tank, swarm launchers should just not be used against them.

Forge guns should then be used for the slower vehicles and/or installations from a distance.

FG are only worthwhile again NOW, now that the AV TEMP-nerf has been undone.

I can't see a problem with Swarms killing tanks.. people are saying that solo militia swarms are killing tanks with >4000 shields. I just can't see why a tank would sit thru 20 seconds or so of having its shields torn off and let the guy reload to finish him. Surely the driver would move into cover?

I haven't looked at the modules yet... but i'd assume tanks are still trying to stack resist modules... what are the numbers?

25% resist modules got reduced to 15%. Stacking two used to give you 45% resists after stacking penalties, now stacking two gives you 27% after penalties. It's a huge difference in eHP.

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Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.09.15 02:48:00 - [1] - Quote I am complete ok with the nerf to tanks it just means tanks need to me more team based to use. however swarms buff was unnecessary it just compounded the nerf in the eyes of the tankers and it allows a militia swarm to solo a tank that is to much. not to mention its effects on LAV and dropships. so after using the militia swarm to solo a tank and knowing that other swarms are even stronger i do think swarms did not need that buff, or at least a 5% margin rather than a 20% margin would have been better. thing about dropships is they are meant to transport infantry and for that reason i think they should have much higher explosive resistance than they currently do. as for LAV they need a bit more HP not much if you do revert the swarms, but some. the swarm buff combined with the HAV nerf was to much the HAV nerf was needed though. but by increasing the damage of swarms so much you compounded it exponentially. so in the name of balance please return swarms to pre patch levels so we can see how they would do under normal circumstances
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.15 02:51:00 - [2] - Quote It's the AV people's reparation for the time of op tanks
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.09.15 02:55:00 - [3] - Quote however much poetic justice is dished out, that is an issue in regard with tank balance they should not be soloable, when up against one equal or less tech level weapon and a milita swarms the lowest of the bunch.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.15 03:01:00 - [4] - Quote It's only fair you guys suffer similar isk loss that av guys got
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.09.15 03:05:00 - [5] - Quote me? im a Assault pro going 13/6 on most matches with a mix of advacned basic and milita gear I rarely drive a tank, ive all was been on the recieving end of tanks OPness.
I-SHAYZ-I 24	Posted - 2012.09.15 03:17:00 - [6] - Quote About time someone agreed with me. Swarms should be good against fast mobile objects such as the dropship and the LAVs but should have reduced damage versus tanks. Unless you team up with 2 or 3 guys to take down a tank, swarm launchers should just not be used against them. Forge guns should then be used for the slower vehicles and/or installations from a distance.
Billi Gene Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 130	Posted - 2012.09.15 03:45:00 - [7] - Quote I-SHAYZ-I wrote: About time someone agreed with me. Swarms should be good against fast mobile objects such as the dropship and the LAVs but should have reduced damage versus tanks. Unless you team up with 2 or 3 guys to take down a tank, swarm launchers should just not be used against them. Forge guns should then be used for the slower vehicles and/or installations from a distance. FG are only worthwhile again NOW, now that the AV TEMP-nerf has been undone. I can't see a problem with Swarms killing tanks.. people are saying that solo militia swarms are killing tanks with >4000 shields. I just can't see why a tank would sit thru 20 seconds or so of having its shields torn off and let the guy reload to finish him. Surely the driver would move into cover? I haven't looked at the modules yet... but i'd assume tanks are still trying to stack resist modules... what are the numbers?
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.09.15 04:22:00 - [8] - Quote Billi Gene wrote: I-SHAYZ-I wrote: About time someone agreed with me. Swarms should be good against fast mobile objects such as the dropship and the LAVs but should have reduced damage versus tanks. Unless you team up with 2 or 3 guys to take down a tank, swarm launchers should just not be used against them. Forge guns should then be used for the slower vehicles and/or installations from a distance. FG are only worthwhile again NOW, now that the AV TEMP-nerf has been undone. I can't see a problem with Swarms killing tanks.. people are saying that solo militia swarms are killing tanks with >4000 shields. I just can't see why a tank would sit thru 20 seconds or so of having its shields torn off and let the guy reload to finish him. Surely the driver would move into cover? I haven't looked at the modules yet... but i'd assume tanks are still trying to stack resist modules... what are the numbers? regardless of numbers a militia shouldnGÇÖt able to solo a HAV regular swarms yes but not militia.
Evane Sa'edi Celtic Anarchy 62	Posted - 2012.09.15 05:08:00 - [9] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: Billi Gene wrote: I-SHAYZ-I wrote: About time someone agreed with me. Swarms should be good against fast mobile objects such as the dropship and the LAVs but should have reduced damage versus tanks. Unless you team up with 2 or 3 guys to take down a tank, swarm launchers should just not be used against them. Forge guns should then be used for the slower vehicles and/or installations from a distance. FG are only worthwhile again NOW, now that the AV TEMP-nerf has been undone. I can't see a problem with Swarms killing tanks.. people are saying that solo militia swarms are killing tanks with >4000 shields. I just can't see why a tank would sit thru 20 seconds or so of having its shields torn off and let the guy reload to finish him. Surely the driver would move into cover? I haven't looked at the modules yet... but i'd assume tanks are still trying to stack resist modules... what are the numbers? regardless of numbers a militia shouldnGÇÖt able to solo a HAV regular swarms yes but not militia. its poor tank driving if you let a militia spec SL kill a tank - it only fires 2 salvos before reloading - thats 8 missiles - even if all 8 hit it should only strip off shields. the gunners should have killed the shooter by then.
Kivverg 12	Posted - 2012.09.15 06:21:00 - [10] - Quote +1 This is a game of 5% increments here and there. Nerfs and buffs should be in such increments.

Tectonious Falcon 23	Posted - 2012.09.15 06:24:00 - [11] - Quote I honestly don't know if I'm playing the same game as some of you guys. I've never seen a good tank get solo'd. Especially not with militia swarm launchers
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.09.15 08:38:00 - [12] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: regardless of numbers a militia shouldnGÇÖt able to solo a HAV regular swarms yes but not militia. It doesn't take that many shots from sniper rifle to take someone down with a prototype drop-suit, even less if it's scout or assault one. Militia shotgun and militia grenades also work fairly well against pretty much anything-infantry. What you are saying is something on the lines of: "new players shouldn't stand a chance against veterans" Which is bullshit. This is MMOFPS with rpg elements not MMORPG with fps elements.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.09.15 10:40:00 - [13] - Quote Swarms are still not one shot one kill weapons against tanks like people are saying, i run a proto swarm launcher and it can still take a LOT of work to take down a good tank player, with a well fit out tank.
LL Machinesson What The French 3	Posted - 2012.09.15 11:21:00 - [14] - Quote I agree, when one single player destructs a vehicule, it's still need several hits at target. And almost everytime it's 5-6 hits with my advanced assault forge gun. I mean when it's a good HAV fit, not the best but a good fit. On the other hand, i'm putting a lot of SP in my AV fit.
Tyas Borg Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 112	Posted - 2012.09.15 12:44:00 - [15] - Quote I agree with the OP. As a tank driver I actually agree with the changes that make it more of a team vehicle now. The turret changes and speed makes it so without gunners your not that effective now, at least with the rail gun. The problem comes with the fact that they've nerfed resistances on them and increased AV. CCP are total fools imo, they should have rolled out one change at a time and see how it works. As it is now AV has effectively had a 50% increase. Roll the patch back, nerf the speed and effectiveness of tanks then buff AV OR nerf the resistances. Both together is just overkill and I've no idea what the hell the devs were thinking. The can't play their own game or else they'd no this was a bad idea tbh. Also people seem to be under the illusion that tanks work now with infantry support, they don't at all. Pre-patch I'd be rolling from objective to objective making sure the grunts get the hack and such. Now that it's me that needs the support the infantry don't care. They'd much rather shoot the closest moving target to increase their epeen.
Conraire Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 52	Posted - 2012.09.15 12:47:00 - [16] - Quote I agree with some others. Either they're driving a militia tank, or low level standard and expecting it to stand up against anything. Or their fitting is Crap. I can unload a full run of 6 volleys on a well fit proto or advanced shield tank, and not have it half way into shields. Now, if they're dumb enough to let me get close enough to lob a few AV Nades on em, that's different. Armor tanks are deceiving, can put em into armor quick, but after that it slows down. But, do the math ppl. Militia and standard swarms only launch 4 missiles. Those now do 300dmg each, so thats 1200dmg total if they all hit and don't ground out. Militia swarm has 2 shots before reloading the other 2 shots. Standard level have 4 shots before reloading the last 2 shots. I highly doubt tanks are getting one shot killed.
Tyas Borg Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 112	Posted - 2012.09.15 12:51:00 - [17] - Quote Those stats would one shot a militia tank pretty much and firing all of your ammo would certainly make a Gunnlogi/Marauder run. Plus if you put like 20k SP into Swarms you get 4 shots in a clip!!. That alone is enough to kill a tank. Couple that with a nanohive and vehicles die fast. All for a few thousand isk, the tank in comparison is vastly more expensive.
Patches The Hyena 204	Posted - 2012.09.15 12:59:00 - [18] - Quote Billi Gene wrote: I-SHAYZ-I wrote: About time someone agreed with me. Swarms should be good against fast mobile objects such as the dropship and the LAVs but should have reduced damage versus tanks. Unless you team up with 2 or 3 guys to take down a tank, swarm launchers should just not be used against them. Forge guns should then be used for the slower vehicles and/or installations from a distance. FG are only worthwhile again NOW, now that the AV TEMP-nerf has been undone. I can't see a problem with Swarms killing tanks.. people are saying that solo militia swarms are killing tanks with >4000 shields. I just can't see why a tank would sit thru 20 seconds or so of having its shields torn off and let the guy reload to finish him. Surely the driver would move into cover? I haven't looked at the modules yet... but i'd assume tanks are still trying to stack resist modules... what are the numbers? 25% resist modules got reduced to 15%. Stacking two used to give you 45% resists after stacking penalties, now stacking two gives you 27% after penalties. It's a huge difference in eHP.
Tyas Borg Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 112	Posted - 2012.09.15 13:03:00 - [19] - Quote Patches The Hyena wrote: Billi Gene wrote: I-SHAYZ-I wrote: About time someone agreed with me. Swarms should be good against fast mobile objects such as the dropship and the LAVs but should have reduced damage versus tanks. Unless you team up with 2 or 3 guys to take down a tank, swarm launchers should just not be used against them. Forge guns should then be used for the slower vehicles and/or installations from a distance. FG are only worthwhile again NOW, now that the AV TEMP-nerf has been undone. I can't see a problem with Swarms killing tanks.. people are saying that solo militia swarms are killing tanks with >4000 shields. I just can't see why a tank would sit thru 20 seconds or so of having its shields torn off and let the guy reload to finish him. Surely the driver would move into cover? I haven't looked at the modules yet... but i'd assume tanks are still trying to stack resist modules... what are the numbers? 25% resist modules got reduced to 15%. Stacking two used to give you 45% resists after stacking penalties, now stacking two gives you 27% after penalties. It's a huge difference in eHP. Couple this with an overall increase to AV damage and effectiveness and you see the problem? It's bad with a HAV and I'm guessing dropships are finding it bloody hard going.
Tectonious Falcon 23	Posted - 2012.09.15 13:45:00 - [20] - Quote Tyas Borg wrote: Those stats would one shot a militia tank pretty much and firing all of your ammo would certainly make a Gunnlogi/Marauder run. Plus if you put like 20k SP into Swarms you get 4 shots in a clip!!. That alone is enough to kill a tank. Couple that with a nanohive and vehicles die fast. All for a few thousand isk, the tank in comparison is vastly more expensive. You do realise that if someone is close enough to a tank to guarantee every rocket from the SL hits then any good driver would have shot them. On the other hand if someone is far away from the tank rockets hardly ever make it all the way

Enervating Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 9	Posted - 2012.09.15 14:43:00 - [21] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: I honestly don't know if I'm playing the same game as some of you guys. I've never seen a good tank get solo'd. Especially not with militia swarm launchers Solo'd them myself a few times. Usually lower end tanks and I am using forge gun. but it's really not that hard.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.09.15 15:12:00 - [22] - Quote if any of you care i fiddle with swarms a bit more, and i got to say their missile could move a bit faster so they can hit targets like dropships, but still a milita swarm should be a newb example of the swarm not a weapon that has a change to solo. my real issue with them is not if A B and C happen your swarm wont hit the fact taht it can and its very much possible to destroy a tank solo with nothing more than milita gear is what bothers me. p.s. stupid weapon changing i keep tring to switch from my swarm to my sub and skip straight to my injector and then press it again and have swarm, i look like a newb firing rockets at infantry. messed up weapon selection.


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