DUST Search - Balacing the guns you have to buy with money

crazy space wrote:

Tarn Adari wrote:

Encharrion wrote:

DarkShadowFox wrote:

Some serious balancing needs to happen cause the guns you can buy with your credit card are wayy to overpowered. They need to be toned down a bit

They aren't overpowered, they are exactly as powerful as the weapons from the next step up. Standard AUR weapons are as powerful as advanced tier weapons, and advanced AUR weapons are as powerful as prototype AUR weapons.

And that's a problem. They have lower skill and CPU/PG requirements. So two players on the same level will never be competitive, when one has access to Aurum weaponry and the other one doesn't. To put an advanced sniper on any fitting, you don't only need Sniper Rifles IV, you also need a top tier suit (and the respective skill), due to the high CPU/PG requirements. A Aurum weapon of the same caliber can be fitted to standard tier suits.

I'm pretty sure those have been removed from the market over time. I don't see many AUR prototype weapons anymore.

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DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.09.12 16:54:00 - [1] - Quote Some serious balancing needs to happen cause the guns you can buy with your credit card are wayy to overpowered. They need to be toned down a bit
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:06:00 - [2] - Quote Guns that you buy should give you a 2% increase over the stock guns, not a major increase,
Jin Robot Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 330	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:14:00 - [3] - Quote Its going to be tricky to balance this for CCP. One one hand people will spend a lot more real cash on items that give gameplay advantage, on the other hand pay to win would be a cancer that would eat away the player base until all that was left would be the minority of players willing to spend hundreds of dollars to compete. Hhonestly if they say its for "side grading" the only difference from isk weapons should be lower skill requirements. No thukker crap. If this game ends up pay to win, my heart will break. I love CCP and have wanted something like this from them for ever.
Encharrion L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 104	Posted - 2012.09.12 19:09:00 - [4] - Quote DarkShadowFox wrote: Some serious balancing needs to happen cause the guns you can buy with your credit card are wayy to overpowered. They need to be toned down a bit They aren't overpowered, they are exactly as powerful as the weapons from the next step up. Standard AUR weapons are as powerful as advanced tier weapons, and advanced AUR weapons are as powerful as prototype AUR weapons.
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.12 19:20:00 - [5] - Quote Encharrion wrote: DarkShadowFox wrote: Some serious balancing needs to happen cause the guns you can buy with your credit card are wayy to overpowered. They need to be toned down a bit They aren't overpowered, they are exactly as powerful as the weapons from the next step up. Standard AUR weapons are as powerful as advanced tier weapons, and advanced AUR weapons are as powerful as prototype AUR weapons. And that's a problem. They have lower skill and CPU/PG requirements. So two players on the same level will never be competitive, when one has access to Aurum weaponry and the other one doesn't. To put an advanced sniper on any fitting, you don't only need Sniper Rifles IV, you also need a top tier suit (and the respective skill), due to the high CPU/PG requirements. A Aurum weapon of the same caliber can be fitted to standard tier suits.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2012.09.12 19:40:00 - [6] - Quote The game isn't all here yet, CCP has stated many times that the pay items will be able to be bought and sold on the player market with in-game currency. So for now it feels a bit P2W, but when all is said and done you will be able to buy those guns with regular old ISK.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.09.13 00:39:00 - [7] - Quote Baal Roo REALLY has the point here. For all who complain that AUR stuff is overpower (even tho it isn't) and feel that AUR users have an advantage - go and buy the stuff with isk.
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.09.13 01:22:00 - [8] - Quote Tarn Adari wrote: Encharrion wrote: DarkShadowFox wrote: Some serious balancing needs to happen cause the guns you can buy with your credit card are wayy to overpowered. They need to be toned down a bit They aren't overpowered, they are exactly as powerful as the weapons from the next step up. Standard AUR weapons are as powerful as advanced tier weapons, and advanced AUR weapons are as powerful as prototype AUR weapons. And that's a problem. They have lower skill and CPU/PG requirements. So two players on the same level will never be competitive, when one has access to Aurum weaponry and the other one doesn't. To put an advanced sniper on any fitting, you don't only need Sniper Rifles IV, you also need a top tier suit (and the respective skill), due to the high CPU/PG requirements. A Aurum weapon of the same caliber can be fitted to standard tier suits. I'm pretty sure those have been removed from the market over time. I don't see many AUR prototype weapons anymore.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.09.15 12:40:00 - [9] - Quote crazy space wrote: Tarn Adari wrote: Encharrion wrote: DarkShadowFox wrote: Some serious balancing needs to happen cause the guns you can buy with your credit card are wayy to overpowered. They need to be toned down a bit They aren't overpowered, they are exactly as powerful as the weapons from the next step up. Standard AUR weapons are as powerful as advanced tier weapons, and advanced AUR weapons are as powerful as prototype AUR weapons. And that's a problem. They have lower skill and CPU/PG requirements. So two players on the same level will never be competitive, when one has access to Aurum weaponry and the other one doesn't. To put an advanced sniper on any fitting, you don't only need Sniper Rifles IV, you also need a top tier suit (and the respective skill), due to the high CPU/PG requirements. A Aurum weapon of the same caliber can be fitted to standard tier suits. I'm pretty sure those have been removed from the market over time. I don't see many AUR prototype weapons anymore. No they are there, there are AUR guns in EVERY category. of weapon.
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.15 14:17:00 - [10] - Quote Example: Sniper Rifles Farsight (Basic, Aurum) has the same damage output like the NT-511 (Advanced, ISK), but needs half CPU/PG and Sniper Rifle Operation 1 instead of 4. The 'Genesis' NT-511 (Advanced, Aurum) has a higher damage output than the Ishukone (Prototype, ISK) and needs Sniper Rifle Operation 2 instead of 5 + Sniper Rifle Proficiency 1. Tell me how this can be balanced...

GarryKE Omnispace Trading Company 60	Posted - 2012.09.15 15:46:00 - [11] - Quote Perhaps I'm just being a huge noob and I'm doing everything wrong but I've been one shot right at time of spawn by some guns while for other people it's incredibly hard to kill. As was the major case when I first started with beginner stock items. Now I understand you needing to play the game for a while and improve gear to be able to compete with people who have played longer but that's just that. One shotting, IMO, shouldn't be possible, unless I heard wrong from a talk CCP done once that said headshots and stuff weren't going to be a thing where you do more damage than places, say, the knee, would.
Kengfa 138	Posted - 2012.09.15 16:03:00 - [12] - Quote GarryKE wrote: Perhaps I'm just being a huge noob and I'm doing everything wrong but I've been one shot right at time of spawn by some guns while for other people it's incredibly hard to kill. As was the major case when I first started with beginner stock items. Now I understand you needing to play the game for a while and improve gear to be able to compete with people who have played longer but that's just that. One shotting, IMO, shouldn't be possible, unless I heard wrong from a talk CCP done once that said headshots and stuff weren't going to be a thing where you do more damage than places, say, the knee, would. The only weapons capable of one shotting are: knives, mass drivers, snipers, forge guns, grenades; depending on your fitting, even shotguns can. Officer weapons are free and give a huge advantage. The only aurum weapon of value is the stormside roden AR, and some of the swarm launchers. And even then, they only get PG/CPU requirements decreased, and you can stock up because they only got a couple isk each. A militia suit can fit aurum gear, so **** off, whoever said otherwise.
Nyx Keres Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.09.15 16:04:00 - [13] - Quote I was also kind of disappointed when I saw weapons dedicated for AUR purchases too. Even if those are only purchased the first time with AUR, what will happen later when more of those weapons get thrown into the market used? I don't see where there will be a balance between AUR weaponry new versus used. I would have liked to see all weapons being able to purchased with either AUR or ISK, market driven but with a small pricing discount (refund) or w/e if you purchase with AUR as an incentive to the user to use AUR. Say... 5%-10% discount? Or, if there's a clear advantage between an AUR weapon, it should be something temporary. Like, lets say... they come with a overclocked capacitor interface where it would allow higher rate of fire/firepower for a certain amount of time before it runs out. Then if the weapon is not used/deployed within the allotted charged time, it becomes same stats as normal. This would also give an incentive for people to get AUR for equipment they intend to use immediately and often. Commemorative weapons are nice too, but not real incentive to use AUR just for a paint job. Who knows, some people might find it attractive. ;)
Hired Killer 7 0	Posted - 2012.09.15 17:23:00 - [14] - Quote I would like Aurum Weapons to have the exact same stats as an ISK counterpart. Make them different in color, but not different in stats. F2P games make money only through the player's vanity anyway. They don't necessarily buy better gear, they buy status symbols. Simply create base weapons for each tier that you can buy with ISK and then a ton of color variants that you can buy with Aurum. Just like the Dropsuits. As far as I can see, the only difference between ISK and Aurum Dropsuits is the color.
Jane DeArc Militaires Sans Jeux 87	Posted - 2012.09.15 21:48:00 - [15] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Baal Roo REALLY has the point here. For all who complain that AUR stuff is overpower (even tho it isn't) and feel that AUR users have an advantage - go and buy the stuff with isk. I gotta back this. Every person I've heard argue over Aur gear are people mostly using militia crap or with poor skill investments.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2012.09.15 22:45:00 - [16] - Quote Tarn Adari wrote: Example: Sniper Rifles Farsight (Basic, Aurum) has the same damage output like the NT-511 (Advanced, ISK), but needs half CPU/PG and Sniper Rifle Operation 1 instead of 4. The 'Genesis' NT-511 (Advanced, Aurum) has a higher damage output than the Ishukone (Prototype, ISK) and needs Sniper Rifle Operation 2 instead of 5 + Sniper Rifle Proficiency 1. Tell me how this can be balanced... Buy those guns with ISK (once the player market is added). Problem solved. Hired Killer 7 wrote: I would like Aurum Weapons to have the exact same stats as an ISK counterpart. Make them different in color, but not different in stats. F2P games make money only through the player's vanity anyway. They don't necessarily buy better gear, they buy status symbols. Simply create base weapons for each tier that you can buy with ISK and then a ton of color variants that you can buy with Aurum. Just like the Dropsuits. As far as I can see, the only difference between ISK and Aurum Dropsuits is the color. AUR weapons will be their own ISK counterparts. I don't understand what you folks don't get about this. Every AUR weapons will be purchasable with AUR or ISK.
Jane DeArc Militaires Sans Jeux 87	Posted - 2012.09.15 23:02:00 - [17] - Quote Tarn Adari wrote: Example: Sniper Rifles Farsight (Basic, Aurum) has the same damage output like the NT-511 (Advanced, ISK), but needs half CPU/PG and Sniper Rifle Operation 1 instead of 4. The 'Genesis' NT-511 (Advanced, Aurum) has a higher damage output than the Ishukone (Prototype, ISK) and needs Sniper Rifle Operation 2 instead of 5 + Sniper Rifle Proficiency 1. Tell me how this can be balanced... Simple. SR Operations gives damage boosts, so until he invests he's doing lower damage anyway and once he invests it's a sniper who's invested and is paying to get an edge over other snipers or to further boost his damage or utility. That's not something to gripe about.
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.15 23:03:00 - [18] - Quote It is not about what might be in the future, it's about the current state of things. There is no market, so there is currently no way to get these weapons with ISK. Therefore it feels a bit unfair right now. Jane DeArc wrote: Tarn Adari wrote: Example: Sniper Rifles Farsight (Basic, Aurum) has the same damage output like the NT-511 (Advanced, ISK), but needs half CPU/PG and Sniper Rifle Operation 1 instead of 4. The 'Genesis' NT-511 (Advanced, Aurum) has a higher damage output than the Ishukone (Prototype, ISK) and needs Sniper Rifle Operation 2 instead of 5 + Sniper Rifle Proficiency 1. Tell me how this can be balanced... Simple. SR Operations gives damage boosts, so until he invests he's doing lower damage anyway and once he invests it's a sniper who's invested and is paying to get an edge over other snipers or to further boost his damage or utility. That's not something to gripe about. But until I have SO 4, I use the standard sniper rifle, while the Aurum user has access to the best sniper rifle in the game with SO 2. That I might have a higher damage output at SO 5 might be true (I haven't done the maths), but that is besides the point.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2012.09.15 23:16:00 - [19] - Quote Tarn Adari wrote: It is not about what might be in the future, it's about the current state of things. There is no market, so there is currently no way to get these weapons with ISK. Therefore it feels a bit unfair right now. It's a beta man, it's half a game. Heck, everything is gonna be reset here in a few weeks. The beta isn't about what's fair and unfair right now, it's about testing the things they give us to test. If your feedback is "right now, I can't buy AUR items with ISK", well yeah, we all know that, but thanks for the input. You will be able to once this is an actual full game, so you need not worry. If beta testing isn't something you're into, it's ok to stop and wait until this is an actual game and has all the features included. No one will mind. Otherwise, this particular issue is not of any real concern. We all know that the player market hasn't been implemented yet, and we all know that it will be implemented.
Hobos-N-Guns Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 44	Posted - 2012.09.16 01:43:00 - [20] - Quote Tarn Adari wrote: Example: Sniper Rifles Farsight (Basic, Aurum) has the same damage output like the NT-511 (Advanced, ISK), but needs half CPU/PG and Sniper Rifle Operation 1 instead of 4. The 'Genesis' NT-511 (Advanced, Aurum) has a higher damage output than the Ishukone (Prototype, ISK) and needs Sniper Rifle Operation 2 instead of 5 + Sniper Rifle Proficiency 1. Tell me how this can be balanced... +1 Ditto Thumbs Ups



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