DUST Search - Why Dust should be like MAG(Discuss)

Makledon wrote:

Ryan Mauler wrote:

Selinate deux wrote:

Dust 514 was NEVER meant to be anything like MAG in the long run and should NEVER become anything like MAG. GTFO and play something else if you want to play a game like MAG. Dust is meant to be a full-scale MMOFPS that directly links to the Eve universe.

MAG set a new standard for FPS and there are 2 main companies trying to build on it right now. The first is DUST 514 (obviously) This is very obvious because of the way they have organized Squad Leadership, and Theatre Command. You may say that they are getting these concepts from Battlefield 3 or something, but try to name a game before MAG that had organized Squads... Nothing. MAG defined that part of the gaming world. DUST is already an improvement on MAG because of the EVE universe, and your ability to purchase assests and use them on the field. Also the vehicular combat of DUST blows MAG out of the water. DUST, however, falls short on groud leadership abilities. The players don't have very much motivation to stay with their squad. MAG did an excellent job at convincing people thhat they need to stick together and rely on eachother to win, which is something DUST is failing at.

The other game that is rising from MAG's ashes (and was mentioned earlier in the topic) is Planetside 2. This game has the player count problem fixed. The battle is ongoing and essentially never ends. There are thousands of players on one map (server) at any one time, but the thing about this game that is failing is any organization at all. Obviously due to the incredible map size, one all powerful commmander would be overwhellmed by the massive number of units he would have to command. For Planetside 2 to succede, they need to split the map into parts, and give a hierarchy of leadership applying to that portion of the map. Leadership roles would be rearranged and changed based on territory control, but it would make them game the ultimate experience.

Both games are in closed beta right now, and are both free to play. It will be interesting to see which one impliments leadership the fastest.

Really? hmmm rainbow six battlefield bad company two socom organized squads. if MAG birthed these ideas i would like proof of this and PLANETSIDE was made way before mag if you bothered to do your research. i gorw tired of people comparing it to make or make it something its not MAG is MAG DUST is DUST plain and simple. I persnally didnt like MAG due to poor community and Racial only squads. if you were not of some racial class they would kick you from the squad. incompetent leaders. simplistic gameplay. Game modes not enough to keep me occupied.


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Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.15 06:24:00 - [1] - Quote The Warbot wrote: MAG is the shiznits. Enjoyed every bit of that game for years. I hope to see Dust have 256 players or more in a battle at once without lag of course. I know CCP can do it. Will take time. Actually, I don't think it will take that long. CCP currently owns the most expensive server in the world for their EVE universe, so funtionality isn't going to be an issue. The company that released MAG (and became the first to release 128 v 128) was called Zipper Interactive. They were a Sony company that went under. CCP, without a doubt has the technology, and I would bet (with enough support form the Requests forums) that they would release new game modes/corporation battle scenarios that would allow different numbers of players (hopefully streching to at least 64 v 64)
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.15 15:32:00 - [2] - Quote Too bad this isn't a request thread, because I've got some things to say about Dust reaching its fullest potential. Let me know what you guys think about how dust would be affected by these implimentations. 1) Bigger, and more advanced Leadership Hierarchy there is already a topic for this ([Suggestion] Enhanced Leadership Structure) so all I really have to say is, leaders should have more powers and there should be more of them. (read that topic) 2) Bigger battles and different battle types Everyone who played MAG fell in love with it as soon as they wrapped their head around the leadership and Objective concepts. They had to start small to get the Mechanics of the game (32 v 32) and as they began to understand better, they started moving to more objective and stratgically based modes, like Sabotage, Acquisition (my personal favorite at 64 v 64), and escalaation. After that, they are ready for the big guns. the 128 v 128 Domination mode (of which I have only played 2 games of) That given, depending on the map size, and objectives on the corporate level warfare, the number of max players should vary. The maps seem a little too open, and they should try for 64 v 64 at least for their larger battles. These are the things that made people love MAG! The graphics were not the greatest, but the gameplay was nearly flawless (no lag at 256 player battles). The reason people don't play/buy MAG anymore is because they had a limited number of maps and the S.V.E.R maps were very unbalanced at the beginning. So now, everybody plays for SVER and it is rare to have a battle without SVER in it. Luckily, maps can't really be unbalanced with the way CCP is running it. Let me know what you think!
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.15 15:47:00 - [3] - Quote Wolf Ritter vonKaldari wrote: Lixet wrote: Even though MAG is still playable at the moment :] MAG is broke as ** bro, from people exploiting glitches in every map to the lag which has created the phrase "MAG rhymes with lag for a reason". It's playable, but it's on it's last breath and CCP is thankfully doing everything to put the poor thing out of it's misery by pandering to and usurping almost the entirety of it's remaining playerbase. You have lag? Its your harware then bro, cuz I have only experienced lag once, and that was the first half a second of my playing domination for the first time. There aren't many glitches in MAG either. You can call them glitches, but usually it just means you don't know what you are doing. I still play huge 64 v 64 matches and they are always fun. Never lagged, and quite consistent. If you downladed MAG today (which you can for free for the trial) you could get into a new or active game easy. BTW. READ THE ABOVE POST**
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 18:27:00 - [4] - Quote Selinate deux wrote: Dust 514 was NEVER meant to be anything like MAG in the long run and should NEVER become anything like MAG. GTFO and play something else if you want to play a game like MAG. Dust is meant to be a full-scale MMOFPS that directly links to the Eve universe. MAG set a new standard for FPS and there are 2 main companies trying to build on it right now. The first is DUST 514 (obviously) This is very obvious because of the way they have organized Squad Leadership, and Theatre Command. You may say that they are getting these concepts from Battlefield 3 or something, but try to name a game before MAG that had organized Squads... Nothing. MAG defined that part of the gaming world. DUST is already an improvement on MAG because of the EVE universe, and your ability to purchase assests and use them on the field. Also the vehicular combat of DUST blows MAG out of the water. DUST, however, falls short on groud leadership abilities. The players don't have very much motivation to stay with their squad. MAG did an excellent job at convincing people thhat they need to stick together and rely on eachother to win, which is something DUST is failing at. The other game that is rising from MAG's ashes (and was mentioned earlier in the topic) is Planetside 2. This game has the player count problem fixed. The battle is ongoing and essentially never ends. There are thousands of players on one map (server) at any one time, but the thing about this game that is failing is any organization at all. Obviously due to the incredible map size, one all powerful commmander would be overwhellmed by the massive number of units he would have to command. For Planetside 2 to succede, they need to split the map into parts, and give a hierarchy of leadership applying to that portion of the map. Leadership roles would be rearranged and changed based on territory control, but it would make them game the ultimate experience. Both games are in closed beta right now, and are both free to play. It will be interesting to see which one impliments leadership the fastest.
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 18:42:00 - [5] - Quote zdowgg wrote: zipper closed shop it dont exsist any more cuase there ames where so bad they dident make any money so eat it Zipper closed shop actually because of map inbalance. The SVER maps were way to easy to defend, so all of the best players gravitated to SVER. That made people stop buying it. Also they way they got money was by selling the game as opposed to making the game free to play (which is necessary to have 256 players in a battle) and having the option to buy special items or having an ingame currency that you could purchase. Other than that, the reason it went under was because you couldn't pick the map you played. It was randomized. Today, the MAG community is still somewhat active, but it is dominated by SVER.
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 18:46:00 - [6] - Quote Makledon wrote: Ryan Mauler wrote: Selinate deux wrote: Dust 514 was NEVER meant to be anything like MAG in the long run and should NEVER become anything like MAG. GTFO and play something else if you want to play a game like MAG. Dust is meant to be a full-scale MMOFPS that directly links to the Eve universe. MAG set a new standard for FPS and there are 2 main companies trying to build on it right now. The first is DUST 514 (obviously) This is very obvious because of the way they have organized Squad Leadership, and Theatre Command. You may say that they are getting these concepts from Battlefield 3 or something, but try to name a game before MAG that had organized Squads... Nothing. MAG defined that part of the gaming world. DUST is already an improvement on MAG because of the EVE universe, and your ability to purchase assests and use them on the field. Also the vehicular combat of DUST blows MAG out of the water. DUST, however, falls short on groud leadership abilities. The players don't have very much motivation to stay with their squad. MAG did an excellent job at convincing people thhat they need to stick together and rely on eachother to win, which is something DUST is failing at. The other game that is rising from MAG's ashes (and was mentioned earlier in the topic) is Planetside 2. This game has the player count problem fixed. The battle is ongoing and essentially never ends. There are thousands of players on one map (server) at any one time, but the thing about this game that is failing is any organization at all. Obviously due to the incredible map size, one all powerful commmander would be overwhellmed by the massive number of units he would have to command. For Planetside 2 to succede, they need to split the map into parts, and give a hierarchy of leadership applying to that portion of the map. Leadership roles would be rearranged and changed based on territory control, but it would make them game the ultimate experience. Both games are in closed beta right now, and are both free to play. It will be interesting to see which one impliments leadership the fastest. Really? hmmm rainbow six battlefield bad company two socom organized squads. if MAG birthed these ideas i would like proof of this and PLANETSIDE was made way before mag if you bothered to do your research. i gorw tired of people comparing it to make or make it something its not MAG is MAG DUST is DUST plain and simple. I persnally didnt like MAG due to poor community and Racial only squads. if you were not of some racial class they would kick you from the squad. incompetent leaders. simplistic gameplay. Game modes not enough to keep me occupied. Haha, MAG was originally a SOCOM title, so it was part of the birth of the idea. Didn't do my research? All of the titles you mentioned came out in thhe same phase of gaming. First came the FPS, then the Different kits, then the skill tree, then the Leadership (the phase you mentioned), and now we are in a phase that seems to be splitting a little. Dust with its skill tree, squads, and MMO world effects, and Planetside 2 and its huge long term battles, skill tree, and squads. I'm just saying that all Dust has to hold onto is EVE connection, new map layout every battle, and the skill tree. They don't have an impressive leadership structure (like PS2), they don't have a massive number of players (PS2), and they don't have long term battles! Sure they have long term effects of one battle, but they don't have any one player going on a real time campaign on a single planet. Planetside 2 may dominate Dust if Dust isn't careful. Lucky for Dust that they have the failsafe of being connected to EVE. Also, nobody is saying "ditch everything good about Dust and go straight for a MAG duplicate". What we are saying is "take the good from MAG and add it to Dust, because Dust has thhe potential to hold onto and support the things that MAG couldn't. It has the potential to support the things that would've made MAG a blockbuster.
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 20:22:00 - [7] - Quote Makledon wrote: oh pardon me for not being gramattically correct. and the cons outweigh the pros in MAG have you played EVE? because if you havent obviously you have no room to talk on What Dust can and will be. and your also dismissing the fact that this is a BETA. EVE is in my opinion one of the best MMO In PC. Ya know what man? I'm sorry. I hate fights, and I don't know why I made those comments (I'll edit my rude comment out). I think you are totally right, I should've done my research, because you obviously have. I think that this topic has a valid point still. To put it in a term that pro and anti MAG groupies will still appreciate, this is what I'd say. Dust has the potential to be the greatest FPS known to man. Because of its depth with the EVE universe, and the scenarios of those battles, we want organized military action. We want the battles to be an Organized Military Effort as opposed to a multi-million ISK contracted effort, being decided by a bunch of "run around and shoot players". What we want is to have organized structure to add to the depth and intensity of the Sandbox. The closest thing that people can think of as far as "organized military efforts" is MAG. MAG obviously had its downfalls, otherwise it would still be around today, but it did have a good aspect. The idea that troops aren't just dropped off and told to win, but rather placed in squads with many different aspects within, is what people loved about MAG, and what they hope will happen in Dust. I think that right now, it is not organized enough! I think we need more leaders to help with the organization, and I think we need more abilities for leaders to add a depth to the game that can only be acheived in a universe as deep as EVE. I made a topic about this, and its pretty much everything that we have been discussing about Dust in this topic, so if you want to read up on it, its called, DUST: An Organized Military Effort, not a Mindless Bloodbath Once again, I am sorry. Hopefully we can continue this discussion without the Pro/Anti MAG issues.
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 21:18:00 - [8] - Quote ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS wrote: I know a lot of us were hoping dust would be a step up from mag. Maybe in another 6 months to a year, but right now it's a long way off being any where near it. I don't think we are as far off as you think we are! I can't list all the points here that I already posted in my Leadership suggestion topic (2 posts up) but if that topic were more active, it would catch more Dev eyes, and maybe get some results. I think it has been inactive mainly because people don't want to read it, but this is a Closed Beta! That means if people want it, the Devs try to make it happen. If don't get the Leadership implimentation we want, its our own fault!!
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 21:57:00 - [9] - Quote I don't think they have 6 months! They said they were going to release Dust in 2012, so they are in the final stages of the Closed beta! They should be moving on to Open beta soon. Once again Makledon. I really am sorry man. I feel like crud.
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 22:04:00 - [10] - Quote Makledon wrote: Ryan Mauler wrote: Makledon wrote: oh pardon me for not being gramattically correct. and the cons outweigh the pros in MAG have you played EVE? because if you havent obviously you have no room to talk on What Dust can and will be. and your also dismissing the fact that this is a BETA. EVE is in my opinion one of the best MMO In PC. Ya know what man? I'm sorry. I hate fights, and I don't know why I made those comments (I'll edit my rude comment out). I think you are totally right, I should've done my research, because you obviously have. I think that this topic has a valid point still. To put it in a term that pro and anti MAG groupies will still appreciate, this is what I'd say. Dust has the potential to be the greatest FPS known to man. Because of its depth with the EVE universe, and the scenarios of those battles, we want organized military action. We want the battles to be an Organized Military Effort as opposed to a multi-million ISK contracted effort, being decided by a bunch of "run around and shoot players". What we want is to have organized structure to add to the depth and intensity of the Sandbox. The closest thing that people can think of as far as "organized military efforts" is MAG. MAG obviously had its downfalls, otherwise it would still be around today, but it did have a good aspect. The idea that troops aren't just dropped off and told to win, but rather placed in squads with many different aspects within, is what people loved about MAG, and what they hope will happen in Dust. I think that right now, it is not organized enough! I think we need more leaders to help with the organization, and I think we need more abilities for leaders to add a depth to the game that can only be acheived in a universe as deep as EVE. I made a topic about this, and its pretty much everything that we have been discussing about Dust in this topic, so if you want to read up on it, its called, [Suggestion] Enhanced Leadership Structure (skip to post 9 and you get all the details) Once again, I am sorry. Hopefully we can continue this discussion without the Pro/Anti MAG issues. I will agree with you on that. it has great potential and has to be involved both in milita and in politics like EVE WE dont want call of duty run amock shoot without thinkin guys i want my squad to be coordinated and pricise after all your fighting for a planet. perhaps we can build installation corporate installations or "bases" with a confrence room Yes! I like that idea. This discussion actually inspired me to make a request thread. Its called (DUST: An Organized Military Effort, not a Mindless Bloodbath) You should post that idea in the Request Thread under that topic!

Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 22:06:00 - [11] - Quote Makledon wrote: Ryan Mauler wrote: I don't think they have 6 months! They said they were going to release Dust in 2012, so they are in the final stages of the Closed beta! They should be moving on to Open beta soon. Once again Makledon. I really am sorry man. I feel like crud. no problem man all in good debating is all. hmmm wouldnt it be cool for dust to have Naval battles in ocenic planets? Oh man! I can see awesome naval battles off the coast, with aircraft carriers, Sea to Land Artillery, Raiding ships! Dude that would be amazing! It would also definately add depth to the Dust universe. It would be (as far as I know) the first of its kind!
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 22:28:00 - [12] - Quote Haha, yeah! I don't know if CCP will be able to impliment everything that people are looking for before 2012 is over, but they will probably have a ton of updates adding new stuff. They update EVE all the time don't they?
Ryan Mauler Codex Troopers 12	Posted - 2012.09.16 22:34:00 - [13] - Quote Sweet! That sounds good. That means that they will be able to look at the stuff on my Leadership thread and actually impliment some of that stuff :). You really should post that idea there though. I just made that topic earlier today, and I need some chatter to help get it started :)