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Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.09.10 16:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Chao Wolf wrote:Obviously you were not here for the replication build... Lets just say swarm launchers with high splash damage are EVIL if you don't believe me ask any of the players here before e3 build I hated when almost everyone was using swarm launchers, but they could reduce the damage against infantry making it a anti-vehicle only weapon.
So you want to tweak the mechanics to someone standing next to an explosion gets no damage if he's of a special type? That will lead to a lot of exceptions, which will lead to a lot of bugs and unpredictable behaviour.
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Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.09.10 16:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
Brakkas Horroscorn wrote:Tanks and Dropships just have way too much health it take forever to kill one especially if you use the miltia swarm missile launcher (default rocket launcher) and on that note that weapon needs a buff its damage is only 250 hp on direct hit and splash damage is only 10 hp, it's a missile launcher it should have just as much splash as a grenade.
Thanks for reading.
You just have to be a troll. There is no way you can honestly believe any of that.
Just in case you really are that delusional: Never expect a militia launcher to do anything more than scratch the paint off a tank. (Militia tanks excluded)
The Swarms do 250 hp damage PER grenade. Meaning even a Militia one does 1000 HP if all four grenades hit. Advanced oned have 5 grenades, and a 4 volley magazine, the protos have 6 grenades. The math is then:
Militia can do 2000 HP per magazine (2x (4x250HP)), which is still a lot for a free weapon. Advanced does 5000 HP per magazine (4x (5x250HP)) Protos does 6000 HP per magazine (4x (6x250HP))
Now, you have to add bonuses for swarms. adding to loading speed, and the various damage modifiers people love to use when they get suits powerful enough to do so.
At SL level 5 you really get 15% faster loading speed. And you get up to +12% damage for the best damage modifier, they can stack, but there is a penalty for it, meaning the second and third modifier returns less. Lets just go with 1 "Skadi" modifier. 12%.
2000 HP + 12% = 2240 HP 5000 HP + 12% = 5600 HP 6000 HP + 12% = 6720 HP
Take 2 of those players, and you can see why Tanks, even the top tier ones, start running away pretty fast, once they encounter a band/Squad of AV users with swarms. Most of those use Nano hives to replenish their grenades and Swarms as well.
So no. the only thing I think they overnerfed on AV a few weeks ago, were the 400m locking distance of the Swarms. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.09.10 16:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
More whining.
Paran's tips to killing Marauders: 1. train swarms to lvl 1 2. Make atlest 2 friends. Whining usually drives people away though 3. Spend autumn on the lvl 1 aur swarms, they have advanced stats 4. Work together, o e target at a time. 5. Generate tank tears instead of shedding your own. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.09.10 16:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
Outrider One wrote:Translation: "NO, DON'T NERF THE SOLO WTFPWNMOBILE THAT I SPENT 5 MILLION SP ON! It's SUPPOSED to take 8 people working together (while the rest of my team supposedly ignores this task group) to kill it!!"
No points for style, but the translation is not all that far off from reality. Tanks are ridiculously, hilariously EXPENSIVE, both in SP and ISK. The SP and ISK for a hull is just the beginning, the modules and weapons needed takes a lot more SP and ISK to buy. Tier 1 tanks (Madrugar nad Gunnologi) and militia tanks (Soma and Sica) are very easy to kill. They may only cost about 4-500k ISK, but a band of freeloader Militia swarm users can kill them with relative ease. The Marauders (Sagaris and Surya) are death on wheels, mobile fortresses. And they are expensive. To take one down requires another similar tank, and/or a well coordinated effort by a squad or two of non-militia AV fitted people. And the Marauders do die I've seen this quite a lot the past two weekends. People see a Marauder, and start ganging up on them.
Besides, they nerfed tanks a lot already. Take their rail gun. It is now much harder to use against moving targets, the gunner have to predict where the target is nearly 3 seconds after pressing the trigger, and probably an additional second or more after the gun actually fires. Unlike swarms and AV nades, the rails, blasters and rockets on a tank, have NO tracking/homing ability.
Edit: I forgot. Tanks weapons are somewhere between insanely difficult, and outright impossible to fire with any degree of accuracy if the tank moves on anything but absolutely smooth surfaces. Same with Dropships. They have to be standing/hovering to allow precise fire. Making them very easy to hit with just about any AV weapon. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.09.10 16:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Dewie Cheecham wrote:Outrider One wrote:Translation: "NO, DON'T NERF THE SOLO WTFPWNMOBILE THAT I SPENT 5 MILLION SP ON! It's SUPPOSED to take 8 people working together (while the rest of my team supposedly ignores this task group) to kill it!!" No points for style, but the translation is not all that far off from reality. Tanks are ridiculously, hilariously EXPENSIVE, both in SP and ISK. The SP and ISK for a hull is just the beginning, the modules and weapons needed takes a lot more SP and ISK to buy. Tier 1 tanks (Madrugar nad Gunnologi) and militia tanks (Soma and Sica) are very easy to kill. They may only cost about 4-500k ISK, but a band of freeloader Militia swarm users can kill them with relative ease. The Marauders (Sagaris and Surya) are death on wheels, mobile fortresses. And they are expensive. To take one down requires another similar tank, and/or a well coordinated effort by a squad or two of non-militia AV fitted people. And the Marauders do die I've seen this quite a lot the past two weekends. People see a Marauder, and start ganging up on them. Besides, they nerfed tanks a lot already. Take their rail gun. It is now much harder to use against moving targets, the gunner have to predict where the target is nearly 3 seconds after pressing the trigger, and probably an additional second or more after the gun actually fires. Unlike swarms and AV nades, the rails, blasters and rockets on a tank, have NO tracking/homing ability.
They won't stop whining until thy cab solo a sagaris with militia swarms, because that's what whiners do. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.09.10 16:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:They won't stop whining until thy cab solo a sagaris with militia swarms, because that's what whiners do.
Sadly, the whiners succeeded in generating enough noise to get CCP to hyper nerf the tanks between the previous build and this one. So they think they may do it again.
Whiners want to reduce tanks to do the damage of a militia AR, have the armour of a scout suit, move at the speed of a heavy suit and cost more then the best can earn in 50 perfect rounds. |
Chao Wolf
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
209
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Posted - 2012.09.11 00:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'd be happy being able to bring a proper fit HAV (not necessarily a great fit ) down to half armor with a forge gun |
Swinging Donkey
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.09.11 01:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tanks are IMHO OP to a standard duster, he/she doesn't have a snowballs chance against a blowtorch. You'd have to be highly trained in either grenades, swarms or forge cannons to take out a tank. The issue is that it would take multiple highly skilled tank busters to take out a sagaris or mudder main liner. Drop ships are a breeze to take out, they can only hide so much then they're wide open in the air. Increasing damage to AV weapons, cycle times or increasing repair time for tanks I believe would balance this out a touch more. |
CyberDoo
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.09.11 03:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
I've been fighting tanks for two weeks and here's what I've learned.
I'm SL 5, Prof at 3, Weap 5, LT Weap reload, prof, and sharpshooter at 3, level 2 in grenadier. I use proto SL's of course.
I usually pack flux grenades on my AV recon scout suit with my proto SL.. When my flux grenade goes off, their mango-bango tank will go down with three shots of my SL. How can I do this, noobies? Its called getting up close and personal with Mr. Tank. I toss a my FG, and here's the problem, sometimes its a dud, but when it goes off then I rush up for the kill. Jump onto the tank! Use the left since the top gunner can't kill you. Don't try to lock on at this range, just dumb fire your rounds right into the main turret and bango he's toast. You might die in the process, its to be expected when a powerful tank blows up, but at least that's one less tank to deal with.
Now, any tanker worth their tank, most aren't, will tell a gunner to jump out and shoot me down off their tank. Some do, most don't.
You aren't a one man army, you need support. Either other AV's or the rest of your squad ready to take out that gunner who jumps out. I've seen only one AV squad and they are deadly as hell and that's from far away.
Stop complaining about how tanks need to be nerffed and just build up your skills and build up your team. Soon tankers will stop tanking, that as soon as you bring in your squad to double tap them to the turret.
Two things I'd suggest to CCP however. Fix the grenades in general, too many duds. Also an anti-shield rocket would be great to have so we can shoot these tanks from farther away. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
666
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Posted - 2012.09.11 04:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
When I saw dropships I did a double take.
We all know about tanks. But dropships?
They are made of balsa wood and painted canvas and unless you really get your fitting spot on they will die to a few swarm hits.
I respect the pilots that can fly against an ok team and keep a dropship alive. Mine usually just burn after a minute of getting shot at. |
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Encharrion
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
104
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Posted - 2012.09.11 05:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
It's already hard enough to fly my dropship, especially when getting hit by swarms spins it 180 degrees and tips it into a 60 degree angle, it doesn't also need to be made of paper. |
wathak 514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2012.09.11 06:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Up dropships stop nerfing the dam tanks so u can play cod people from the very start ccp said to specialize if u are gana fly u have to spend a good amount of time in dropships but ull be stuck in militia assult rifles for a long time. Specealize in assult rifles and other anti infantry equipment u wont be able to face a tank u lok towards ur might flying in the sky with all his skills in dropships or ur buddy with his own tank or u watch the backs of ur 3 friends waiting on a hillside with proto swarms to get a clean shot on that tank why are u watching there back cause if a assult player comes by they only got pistols or submachine guns. If ur a scout u may distract and lure the tank straight to his death.
This game u specialize to fill a nich then u get togeather with players who have taken a liking to other niches or the same who knows but u work as a team. My normal squad consists of me dedicated pilot still using militia swarms and assults and crap but get me in the air with some good gunners well make the other team go 0:30 unless they have some av speced guys that keep me running around the map cause a dropship is underpowered to swarms. As for my squad mates 1 speced straight to maraders 1 fully speced into full proto assult hell we even have arself a logi guy that runs around reviving my ass when i dnt have any dropships.
Please people stop whining get on ur mics find some guys toplay with and all of a sudden when u stop playing cod u relize tanks arnt overpowered dropships are 2 weak swarms are overpowered and most importantly tanks are more balanced then u think |
Xiree
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2012.09.11 06:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
No, nerfing crap screws with the entire game...
No tank is easily destroyed . That is a good thing. Besides its a future war...
They should have weapons that is good enough to destroy a tank in one shot, but there has to be a penalty to that -- Rather if they can only carry so many ammo or that being the only gun they can carry. Perhaps, a gun that takes a minute to warm up but can mow down a tank, but again its hard to control.
I think people should think up ideas for weapons before making ANYTHING weaker. Kinda takes the whole point out of the game, reducing damage of tanks... Progress isn't going back its going forward and in War... No one goes "hey, take that tank out of the war -- Its to hard to blow up" . No they make better weapons to get rid of it.
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Bootbaghandle
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.09.11 06:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Outrider One wrote:DestrukterDust wrote:
again its team work. 32 in a match 16 per team means prob 1 tank 3 heavys 1 drop ship 2 lavs a sniper or two and two logis, rest infantry.
if you had that or around it and had good team work would there be solo invul tanks? or would the team with best team work have the i win button? prob is everyone wants to snipe or as ive said before run around and kill pll like cod. this is not cod, its based mainly off eve and in eve team work and strategy is essential or youll simply lose. stop complaining and put 2-3 mill sp into AV and become a team player, or put 2-3 mill sp into logistics, have you tried this? or just complaining cuz ur strategy is non existent?
Translation: "NO, DON'T NERF THE SOLO WTFPWNMOBILE THAT I SPENT 5 MILLION SP ON! It's SUPPOSED to take 8 people working together (while the rest of my team supposedly ignores this task group) to kill it!!" See, in the cute litte fantasy scenario you've created, balance is inexplicably inherant. You even lay out an adorable composition for each full and capable team! Indeed, if that were the case, we wouldn't need to balance anything, would we? Good for you. Now lets get back on point, since screaming "but my tank is balanced if the other team brings a tank, too!!" kind of ignores the whole purpose of this thread. There need to be alternatives for dealing with tanks besides a bigger, better tank - and no, "Everyone spawn heavy and shoot at the tank on three!" is not an acceptable alternative. What you "bring friends" types always seem to bizarrely overlook is that only ONE GUY is 'consumed' operating that tank, (or up to three, for uberbbqhax) while the enterety of the rest of his team is free to interdict the sort of cooperation you're insisting the other team bring to bear to balance out that tank. Also, get over yourself, kid. When you post, try and keep in mind that you know nothing about me, who I play with, or the strategy we bring to a fight.
Finally someone with some common sense! My hats off to you.
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madd mudd
41
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Posted - 2012.09.11 07:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
The proto swarm is still barely effective against a proto tank, and when 3 tanks are rolling around its just garbage
The only thing I think should be nerfed on tanks is speed
and yes working together is optimal for anything but it should only be 2-3 people of equivalent gear rank to take out a tank quickly, and just one person with equiv gear to take it out in more time.
Miltia swarm launchers should still do reasonable damage to a proto tank especially when more than 1 is attacking the tank |
Cephus Stearns
2
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Posted - 2012.09.11 07:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tanks are hard to kill get over yourself. i suffer tanks all the frikin time there harder than hell to kill unless you have an AV spec on your team.thats the whole point of this game TEAMWORK. find someone to fill that role then your problem is solved. but if you have to nerf something nerf the homing ability of rockets my dropship spins like a top after one hit no matter how much i evade those damn things. while your at it buff the dropships weapons and armor there patheticly weak. |
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