DUST Search - Dropships could be the answer to OP tanks.

Noc Tempre wrote:

STB Vermaak Doe wrote:

Noc Tempre wrote:

STB Vermaak Doe wrote:

Noc Tempre wrote:

Tank health is not the problem, the turrets lack of role balance is. Missiles win at everything, rails are really good at all ranges, and blasters are lol but still wreck at CQC vs infantry. The environment all being flat or sloped inward open spaces doesn't help in the slightest. The idea of an I-win dropship is really bad though.

What if the turret was a module. That decreased some aspect but added a small turret.

(Equipping the module to a tank would add a coaxial turret)

A small missile turret variant that acted like a lock-on only swarm launcher would be interesting as a turret. A gunship "dropship" should really be it's own category, model, and behavior. Customization turret locations/numbers is an interesting idea I've pitched before, but asking the art dept to do more work seems to kill a lot of good ideas...

This wouldn't make a dedicated gunship as gunships will most likely have medium turrets and be a bit different looking.

Ps this helps all vehicles at a price

Sacrificing tank for gank is what the low slot turret upgrades are for (well when they work anyway). I'm on the fence about the driver/gunner combo of the HAV vs the other vehicles, but making modules that bring other vehicles in line is one valid way to approach balancing this, but not one I support. If any slot can be a weapon, it kind of defeats the intuitive lines between what is high/low/weapon.

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Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:43:00 - [1] - Quote Take a dropship, and give it a pilot controlled swarm launcher pods, and use the "cockpit" view to lock on. They become the counter to tanks.. without being OP against infantry. Very little coding, little graphics changes, and watch tanks run. Thoughts?
Drake Gro'Dar 19	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:49:00 - [2] - Quote A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:52:00 - [3] - Quote Drake Gro'Dar wrote: A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight. Well, fighters are so fast you'd have a hard time staying on the map, let alone hitting anything multiple times.
Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:53:00 - [4] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: Drake Gro'Dar wrote: A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight. Well, fighters are so fast you'd have a hard time staying on the map, let alone hitting anything multiple times. Who knows to be honest, have you seen a fighter in Dust yet? Gunship sounds like more what you want, I've seen dropships take down tanks in the past. + have done so as a gunner of a dropship a couple of times, so I know it's possible already. I just don't think it would work well with how they are now, but who knows.. have yet to really see a good well fit dropship in this build.
wathak 514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:54:00 - [5] - Quote Me and my gunners aready kill tanks or atleast make them more worried about keeping the tank then killing people but even so the answer has always been teamwork weather ur in a infantry or a dropship
Lux Lucidus 3	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:55:00 - [6] - Quote I think a more gunship slanted dropship would be enough. Give the pilot a turret and two turrets per side and you'd have a vicious platform
843-Bob365421 EV 27	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:57:00 - [7] - Quote Drake Gro'Dar wrote: A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight. Tanks do not need a nerf. Hard enough to put anything proto on it as is. Much less a nerf. i know they are nerffing it due to complainers. But if u have good enough teamwork. Any tank is easy to kill. No jk.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:59:00 - [8] - Quote Yes, I want a gunship, or some way to be more than a taxi driver... More than you know. This solution would allow CCP to be lazy and not implement Gunships while addressing a "problem" they seem intent on "fixing". I used to be a good Eryx pilot, and when I was favored with a good gunner, HE did really well. But with the reset, dropship and Swarm Launcher changes, I stopped doing dropships until things are improved. Air pilots need a way to do more than spend lots of money and skillpoints so others can shoot things and get places faster.
Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.09.09 00:01:00 - [9] - Quote 843-Bob365421 EV wrote: Drake Gro'Dar wrote: A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight. Tanks do not need a nerf. Hard enough to put anything proto on it as is. Much less a nerf. i know they are nerffing it due to complainers. But if u have good enough teamwork. Any tank is easy to kill. No jk. The "if it's possible to beat, it's balanced" approach huh? I've seen that one many times :) I agree though, no need to nerf tanks IMO, just give swarm their +25% damage back. >.<
843-Bob365421 EV 27	Posted - 2012.09.09 00:02:00 - [10] - Quote Pezz IsDank wrote: 843-Bob365421 EV wrote: Drake Gro'Dar wrote: A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight. Tanks do not need a nerf. Hard enough to put anything proto on it as is. Much less a nerf. i know they are nerffing it due to complainers. But if u have good enough teamwork. Any tank is easy to kill. No jk. The "if it's possible to beat, it's balanced" approach huh? I've seen that one many times :) I agree though, no need to nerf tanks IMO, just gives swarm their +25% damage back. >.< Agreed.

Drake Gro'Dar 19	Posted - 2012.09.09 00:13:00 - [11] - Quote Nerf tanks or don't. I play sniper most of the time so in just going to hide from tanks anyways. But on topic a gunship would be very good, maybe even a dropship variant that has both guns on one side kinda like http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130 But then what will fighters do that a gunship can't?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.09.09 00:16:00 - [12] - Quote The issue with dropships is they're difficult to use atm severly reducing the number of possible DS pilots, and the reward for DS pilots is so amazingly low its not funny for them.
Typo Name 78	Posted - 2012.09.09 00:23:00 - [13] - Quote Drake Gro'Dar wrote: A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight. the problem is, dropships are harder to skill into than tanks- and they need 2 people to be halfway effective, while tanks only need 1 person.
CLONE 2774 Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 83	Posted - 2012.09.09 00:41:00 - [14] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: Drake Gro'Dar wrote: A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight. Well, fighters are so fast you'd have a hard time staying on the map, let alone hitting anything multiple times. maybe on gas planets
miahus CrimeWave Syndicate 78	Posted - 2012.09.09 01:26:00 - [15] - Quote drop ships can be used as good anti tanks. Today a sagaris was just raping our team, until one of us got his drop ship, and we started raining rockets on it. Took us a while taking it down, was a tough one. Best and most satisfying moment though was when the sagaris' driver bailed out as his tank was exploding, I jumped out of the drop ship, inertial dampner landing right infront of him, and blew out his face with my gek.
Ragna Soul Algintal Core Gallente Federation 90	Posted - 2012.09.09 01:56:00 - [16] - Quote i actually like this idea. to have a gunship in the air to bring down enemy tanks and its not like they'll be hard to destroy if they're like gunships like the AC 130 itd be like a bullseye with wings. and with fighters in the air it'd keep them on check
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.09.09 02:02:00 - [17] - Quote Early last build my very good fit Surya was eventually plagued by dropships, got to the point every battle I had on parked overhead raining down missiles, couldn't even hide under the buildings, they'd drop down to fire and climb back up before my turret could turn to fire at them. So I switched tack and trained assault, swarm, SMG and became the nemesis of dropship pilots ! Lol But now training the same fit I'm better balanced against dropships but can barely scratch the paint on most HAVs. As a final thought I think the gunship could work well with just 2 turrets, one pilot controlled or fixed and the other for passenger, but it wouldn't have any more passenger seats, just the one gunner. I think a fixed large turret for the pilot aimed by steering and addown facing 360 deg small turret for gunner to deal with us swarm spammers below ;-)
Drake Gro'Dar 19	Posted - 2012.09.09 02:03:00 - [18] - Quote So you get a couple of guys in your gunship and maybe one or two fighters to protect it. That's air superiority and kills the enemies ability to put tanks on the map. And on the idea of dropships what if we get a map or two where you need them to get around, I'm thinking a battlefield similar to the hallelujah mountains in avatar. Floating areas that you will need to fly from one to another, maybe if we get stuff like that we can get jet pack modules.
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.09.09 02:11:00 - [19] - Quote Jet packs - not gonna happen. Also zoom out on your overview map and look at the size of the maps we're already playing on !! Dropships will be needed just to move mercs around the field before the timer runs out and nobody's seen anyone to kill yet.
Ragna Soul Algintal Core Gallente Federation 90	Posted - 2012.09.09 02:29:00 - [20] - Quote we should to put this in the request section of the forum im sure the devs would take this into consideration as way to leave tanks the way they are

Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.09.09 03:11:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The issue with dropships is they're difficult to use atm severly reducing the number of possible DS pilots, and the reward for DS pilots is so amazingly low its not funny for them. a turret on a dropship = rewards just like a tank. I don't get why people are like "just use teamwork" when every other skill focus except for LAV has a way to get good warpoints solo. I dont' want to be a lone commando, I want to be able to use my ship to skill up with when I'm in a public game by myself just like every other player.
Scholar Him Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2012.09.09 03:13:00 - [22] - Quote Why not just fix what is broken? Why add other classes to compensate? Don't we already have a class that is suppose to specialize in attacking hard targets? Why not just fix the class so it works against the targets they are suppose to be able to take out?
Drake Gro'Dar 19	Posted - 2012.09.09 03:25:00 - [23] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Jet packs - not gonna happen. Also zoom out on your overview map and look at the size of the maps we're already playing on !! Dropships will be needed just to move mercs around the field before the timer runs out and nobody's seen anyone to kill yet. I agree, jet packs won't happen. Can you imagine all the noob snipers using it to get to high spots so they stick out like a sore thumb,easy targets. My ishukone is hungry for noobs lol.
pritcht37 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2012.09.09 03:30:00 - [24] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The issue with dropships is they're difficult to use atm severly reducing the number of possible DS pilots, and the reward for DS pilots is so amazingly low its not funny for them. I soo agree. There was a time that dropships were very useful. The endless whining got them trashed. End result snipers unchecked in the hills and tanks running wild on the battlefield.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.09.09 03:36:00 - [25] - Quote This game should require teamwork, not 16 lone wolves.
Drake Gro'Dar 19	Posted - 2012.09.09 03:43:00 - [26] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: This game should require teamwork, not 16 lone wolves. This! You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Until the game comes out and we get corps this won't happen very much but once we are in corps and fighting for more than just to win a match you won't see real team work.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.09.09 03:44:00 - [27] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: Take a dropship, and give it a pilot controlled swarm launcher pods, and use the "cockpit" view to lock on. They become the counter to tanks.. without being OP against infantry. Very little coding, little graphics changes, and watch tanks run. Thoughts? Really, we need a dedicated Gunship vehicle.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.09.09 03:52:00 - [28] - Quote Scholar Him wrote: Why not just fix what is broken? Why add other classes to compensate? Don't we already have a class that is suppose to specialize in attacking hard targets? Why not just fix the class so it works against the targets they are suppose to be able to take out? There are no classes in Dust. Do you mean the AV grenades? Swarm Launchers? Forge Guns? Other vehicle turrets? The best tank killer is another tank. Second are dropships with gunners that have a brain, and the guy who pays the bill and prays for one. Third was the forge gun, and last the Swarm Launcher. I haven't seen enough AV grenades to know where they place. In the end, air combat is significantly lacking the ability to defeat tanks in a consistent manner. Until we can skill up gunners with brains who will obey pilots, we need a turret. A gunship pilot and a gunner can help the team much more effectively than a dropship pilot and 2 gunners.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.09.09 04:15:00 - [29] - Quote Pezz IsDank wrote: Rhadiem wrote: Drake Gro'Dar wrote: A good pilot with a good gunner can easily kill a tank. It's all about teamwork, I'm not happy with how hard tanks can be to kill and hope they get a small nerf but I love that they force you to be a team. But we will get fighters so you will get that ability to fly and shoot. I'd like to see how fighters and tanks work in a fight. Well, fighters are so fast you'd have a hard time staying on the map, let alone hitting anything multiple times. Who knows to be honest, have you seen a fighter in Dust yet? Gunship sounds like more what you want, I've seen dropships take down tanks in the past. + have done so as a gunner of a dropship a couple of times, so I know it's possible already. I just don't think it would work well with how they are now, but who knows.. have yet to really see a good well fit dropship in this build. 09 they had fighters workin in the gameplay alpha footage wont be much use on these maps, need the planetary conquest mode with full sized maps
RedBleach 50	Posted - 2012.09.09 04:22:00 - [30] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: Take a dropship, and give it a pilot controlled swarm launcher pods, and use the "cockpit" view to lock on. They become the counter to tanks.. without being OP against infantry. Very little coding, little graphics changes, and watch tanks run. Thoughts? To aim at the ground would extremely angle the dropship, forcing you to bail or crash. Also, how powerful? A regular swarmlauncher would take it's whole ammo capacity on a non-repping top tier tank. Just make it A RAILGUN! (quick fire and powerful

Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.09.09 17:29:00 - [31] - Quote RedBleach wrote: Rhadiem wrote: Take a dropship, and give it a pilot controlled swarm launcher pods, and use the "cockpit" view to lock on. They become the counter to tanks.. without being OP against infantry. Very little coding, little graphics changes, and watch tanks run. Thoughts? To aim at the ground would extremely angle the dropship, forcing you to bail or crash. Also, how powerful? A regular swarmlauncher would take it's whole ammo capacity on a non-repping top tier tank. Just make it A RAILGUN! (quick fire and powerful Railguns would be even harder to aim, but I'd be fine with that.
Lazarus Solo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2012.09.09 18:05:00 - [32] - Quote To be honest, I think gunships might be a bit OP. I also think forge guns and swarms are too cheap, especially forge guns. It's ridiculous how effective a 12k forge gun is against anything other than second tier tanks or above.
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.09.09 18:19:00 - [33] - Quote Lazarus Solo wrote: To be honest, I think gunships might be a bit OP. I also think forge guns and swarms are too cheap, especially forge guns. It's ridiculous how effective a 12k forge gun is against anything other than second tier tanks or above. Firstly you can't say something might be OP until you've seen how it's going to be implemented. Second AV weapons are no cheaper than other weapons, give us a good reason why you think they should cost more and we can discuss it. Thirdly the forge gun is not as effective as you make out, more likely you're using the wrong type of HAV, forge guns are ment to be effective against shield but not armor and swarms are effective against armor but not shield, why do you think the shield tanksa're more popular ... it's because there's only the heavy class that can be effective against it and not many play the heavy class.
FatalFlaw V1 ISK Faucet Industries 76	Posted - 2012.09.09 18:30:00 - [34] - Quote Dropships can kill tanks but if the tank driver knows what they are doing it's easy to avoid, and even easier to just kill the dropship. The dropship has to stay directly above the tank to avoid their turret, but if that same team has a forge gunner or second tank they are screwed. Even a solid fit dropship goes down in ~3-4 shots from a tank, sometimes they give up and crash after only 2 if their armor is on fire.. +1 to the gunship idea though. I would fully support an anti-vehicle swarm launcher type weapon for the dropship pilot. They really do need a buff, especially as a means for the pilot to get some SP other than an assist here and there.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.09 18:34:00 - [35] - Quote Add a fixed small turret at a slight angle with a hud the shows where it will land. Any other pilots agree?
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.09 18:41:00 - [36] - Quote Tank health is not the problem, the turrets lack of role balance is. Missiles win at everything, rails are really good at all ranges, and blasters are lol but still wreck at CQC vs infantry. The environment all being flat or sloped inward open spaces doesn't help in the slightest. The idea of an I-win dropship is really bad though. Also lol at anyone who lists blops as "above" tier one tanks. If you look at the fittings and slots, they are below tier one with a small amount of extra health. The CRU doesn't even work yet. They are a nice paint scheme though.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.09 18:45:00 - [37] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Tank health is not the problem, the turrets lack of role balance is. Missiles win at everything, rails are really good at all ranges, and blasters are lol but still wreck at CQC vs infantry. The environment all being flat or sloped inward open spaces doesn't help in the slightest. The idea of an I-win dropship is really bad though. What if the turret was a module. That decreased some aspect but added a small turret. (Equipping the module to a tank would add a coaxial turret)
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.09 19:00:00 - [38] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Tank health is not the problem, the turrets lack of role balance is. Missiles win at everything, rails are really good at all ranges, and blasters are lol but still wreck at CQC vs infantry. The environment all being flat or sloped inward open spaces doesn't help in the slightest. The idea of an I-win dropship is really bad though. What if the turret was a module. That decreased some aspect but added a small turret. (Equipping the module to a tank would add a coaxial turret) A small missile turret variant that acted like a lock-on only swarm launcher would be interesting as a turret. A gunship "dropship" should really be it's own category, model, and behavior. Customization turret locations/numbers is an interesting idea I've pitched before, but asking the art dept to do more work seems to kill a lot of good ideas...
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.09 19:03:00 - [39] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Tank health is not the problem, the turrets lack of role balance is. Missiles win at everything, rails are really good at all ranges, and blasters are lol but still wreck at CQC vs infantry. The environment all being flat or sloped inward open spaces doesn't help in the slightest. The idea of an I-win dropship is really bad though. What if the turret was a module. That decreased some aspect but added a small turret. (Equipping the module to a tank would add a coaxial turret) A small missile turret variant that acted like a lock-on only swarm launcher would be interesting as a turret. A gunship "dropship" should really be it's own category, model, and behavior. Customization turret locations/numbers is an interesting idea I've pitched before, but asking the art dept to do more work seems to kill a lot of good ideas... This wouldn't make a dedicated gunship as gunships will most likely have medium turrets and be a bit different looking. Ps this helps all vehicles at a price
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.09 19:39:00 - [40] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Tank health is not the problem, the turrets lack of role balance is. Missiles win at everything, rails are really good at all ranges, and blasters are lol but still wreck at CQC vs infantry. The environment all being flat or sloped inward open spaces doesn't help in the slightest. The idea of an I-win dropship is really bad though. What if the turret was a module. That decreased some aspect but added a small turret. (Equipping the module to a tank would add a coaxial turret) A small missile turret variant that acted like a lock-on only swarm launcher would be interesting as a turret. A gunship "dropship" should really be it's own category, model, and behavior. Customization turret locations/numbers is an interesting idea I've pitched before, but asking the art dept to do more work seems to kill a lot of good ideas... This wouldn't make a dedicated gunship as gunships will most likely have medium turrets and be a bit different looking. Ps this helps all vehicles at a price Sacrificing tank for gank is what the low slot turret upgrades are for (well when they work anyway). I'm on the fence about the driver/gunner combo of the HAV vs the other vehicles, but making modules that bring other vehicles in line is one valid way to approach balancing this, but not one I support. If any slot can be a weapon, it kind of defeats the intuitive lines between what is high/low/weapon.

STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.09 19:45:00 - [41] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Tank health is not the problem, the turrets lack of role balance is. Missiles win at everything, rails are really good at all ranges, and blasters are lol but still wreck at CQC vs infantry. The environment all being flat or sloped inward open spaces doesn't help in the slightest. The idea of an I-win dropship is really bad though. What if the turret was a module. That decreased some aspect but added a small turret. (Equipping the module to a tank would add a coaxial turret) A small missile turret variant that acted like a lock-on only swarm launcher would be interesting as a turret. A gunship "dropship" should really be it's own category, model, and behavior. Customization turret locations/numbers is an interesting idea I've pitched before, but asking the art dept to do more work seems to kill a lot of good ideas... This wouldn't make a dedicated gunship as gunships will most likely have medium turrets and be a bit different looking. Ps this helps all vehicles at a price Sacrificing tank for gank is what the low slot turret upgrades are for (well when they work anyway). I'm on the fence about the driver/gunner combo of the HAV vs the other vehicles, but making modules that bring other vehicles in line is one valid way to approach balancing this, but not one I support. If any slot can be a weapon, it kind of defeats the intuitive lines between what is high/low/weapon. It wouldn't be able to go to absolutely any slot (high powered most likely) and it would be limited to one like damage control
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.09.09 20:12:00 - [42] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: It wouldn't be able to go to absolutely any slot (high powered most likely) and it would be limited to one like damage control Still, why not just add a third turret slot if that is the design, perhaps with a different size so only certain ones fit?


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