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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.09.08 21:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Only 1 reason
When armor gets damaged its slowly starts to come apart and unless you repair it, it will kill the tank
Now with armor tanks it doesnt matter they have a repper on it so they can repair but just say you have a close battle with a tank and your in the shield tank and you get put into half armor and survive you can rep your shield back to 100% but your armor will get worse unless you can find a logi with a armor repper or a supply depot and if not your ******
So really it means ppl will just be in armor tanks mostly and shield wont be used as much because its too risky unless they put on a armor rep which tbh you just dont do
Comparing it to the ships in EVE you can hit structure your ship will be on fire your shields will recharge to 100% but your armor or hull will not continually decrease until it explodes and thats if you use a shield tanked ship
So why does it happen in DUST?
TBH i cant see why armor just stays at what it used to be, it gets hit to 50% and it stays ther and doesnt decrease
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V4DOL
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.09.08 21:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
I flew a Drake for far too long to ever armor tank...  |
Thor Thunder Fist
Better Hide R Die
79
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Posted - 2012.09.08 21:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
3 words Militia Repair Tool.
fits on all but the heavy suit so far |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 22:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thor Thunder Fist wrote:3 words Militia Repair Tool.
fits on all but the heavy suit so far
And while i do that some idiot will jack my ride
Yea i fly drakes, you never ever dual tank owt because your wasting valuable slots for other more useful things generally |
Icy Tiger
496
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Posted - 2012.09.08 22:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
The thing, Shield tanking offers way more versatility and choice. Along with the fact that you can take punishment for a long period of time. Armor tanks are great for short skirmishes, but aren't all that useful during long time engagements. |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2012.09.08 22:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Supply Depots will rep armor. Just drive up near one - they had a huge HP buff and are rarely destroyed now. So if you get in a jam, head off to a Supply Depot.
And as a counterbalance - Shields have a passive recharge. It might not be much of anything, but it's something. If an armour tank barely escapes a fight and has already used their rep...they are basically going to bleed out the remaining HP unless they can get a player rep or make it to an SD. If a shield tank gets into deep shield, it'll rep back decently... |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
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Posted - 2012.09.08 22:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
I armor tank because if i meet a shield tank, they meet their maker.  |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 22:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Drake Lyons wrote:Supply Depots will rep armor. Just drive up near one - they had a huge HP buff and are rarely destroyed now. So if you get in a jam, head off to a Supply Depot.
And as a counterbalance - Shields have a passive recharge. It might not be much of anything, but it's something. If an armour tank barely escapes a fight and has already used their rep...they are basically going to bleed out the remaining HP unless they can get a player rep or make it to an SD. If a shield tank gets into deep shield, it'll rep back decently...
If ther is no supply depots on the map or close enough to be able to drive to then you suffer the same fate you die |
Got malwarE
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2012.09.08 22:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
In Eve, armor tanks can take more than a shield tank (begin flame war) due to the fact that shields passively recharge. Personally, I would assume the same would follow over Dust.
And by the way...armor tanked Dominix here.
--GmE |
Pezz IsDank
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
171
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Posted - 2012.09.08 22:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
What type of tank is better depends on the situation though, doesn't it?
Aren't armor tanks generally better for vehicle combat while shield tanks are better for owning infantry? SL's suck against shield tanks right? & forge guns are good against shield, but they have terrible range now? Sounds to me like I would still stick with shield if I was planning to focus on infantry and had backup for when taking on other tanks.
Or.. if you're grouped, I guess you could have a squad mate have a fitting with a armor repair tool and have him as your gunner so if that does happen he can jump out and repair you guys and you can keep a watch out. |
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Needless Sacermendor
98
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Posted - 2012.09.08 23:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Armor Tanks are weaker against infantry because swarm launcher will fit any suit and is better against armor whereas the forge will only fit heavy class and is stronger against shield, so armor tank being better against tanks makes sense as shield tanks stand more of a chance against infantry. Seems like a decent balance to me. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Im ignoring the whole 'which is better in which situation' because it really doesnt matter
Im on about the disadvantage that shield has against armor because shield cannot rep its armor |
Pezz IsDank
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Im ignoring the whole 'which is better in which situation' because it really doesnt matter
Lol ok
So what about the part of having a friend as your gunner who also has a repair tool in his fitting? So he can jump out and rep after a close call.
That's a situation too though, so nvm... |
Needless Sacermendor
98
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Posted - 2012.09.08 23:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Im ignoring the whole 'which is better in which situation' because it really doesnt matter
Im on about the disadvantage that shield has against armor because shield cannot rep its armor
Well if you want tank wars ... find another game cos this won't be it !
My point is that tanks vs each other vs infantry is about balanced by this mechanic because your armor tank has an advantage against the shield tank but a disadvantage against infantry ... whereas the shield tank has an advantage against infantry but a disadvantage against the armor tank.
End of discussion. |
Amazigh Stormrage
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
36
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Posted - 2012.09.08 23:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
as a shield tank, AND armor tank, when you get below 30% armor, ur tank is on fire, killing ur tank bit by bit.
as shield tank you shouldn't even be shot into armor, ur shields are ur defense; shields gone, ur dead period.
i can assure you, if you come up against me with ur shield tank (i'm shield tanker too) you won't survive with half armor or less, ur armor will be 1 shotted. or you kill me befoer you get into armor. its that simple. |
Pezz IsDank
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
171
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Posted - 2012.09.08 23:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Amazigh Stormrage wrote:as a shield tank, AND armor tank, when you get below 30% armor, ur tank is on fire, killing ur tank bit by bit.
as shield tank you shouldn't even be shot into armor, ur shields are ur defense; shields gone, ur dead period.
i can assure you, if you come up against me with ur shield tank (i'm shield tanker too) you won't survive with half armor or less, ur armor will be 1 shotted. or you kill me befoer you get into armor. its that simple.
Same experience I had when driving a sagaris during the last build, once those shields were gone it was GG, I never experienced my armor passively being destroyed. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Amazigh Stormrage wrote:as a shield tank, AND armor tank, when you get below 30% armor, ur tank is on fire, killing ur tank bit by bit.
Considering in EVE i can hammer my drakes shields into the ground and go into armor or even structure and come out alive my structure is on fire but it doesnt kill the ship
So if tanks are made of the same stuff why does fire kill my armor?
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pezz IsDank wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Im ignoring the whole 'which is better in which situation' because it really doesnt matter Lol ok So what about the part of having a friend as your gunner who also has a repair tool in his fitting? So he can jump out and rep after a close call. That's a situation too though, so nvm...
With grouping broke as it is i still roam solo and randoms are potaotes |
Needless Sacermendor
98
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Posted - 2012.09.08 23:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Pezz IsDank wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Im ignoring the whole 'which is better in which situation' because it really doesnt matter Lol ok So what about the part of having a friend as your gunner who also has a repair tool in his fitting? So he can jump out and rep after a close call. That's a situation too though, so nvm... With grouping broke as it is i still roam solo and randoms are potaotes
What's 'broke' about grouping ? There's nothing wrong with it. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2012.09.08 23:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Armor tanks are amazing. In my opinion the armor repper does more then the shield counterpart. another thing is spidertanking with armor is better cause of the long active time and allmost non existent cooldown time. Well shield tanks can drive faster cause they dont need to use armor plates that slows them down. |
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Pezz IsDank wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Im ignoring the whole 'which is better in which situation' because it really doesnt matter Lol ok So what about the part of having a friend as your gunner who also has a repair tool in his fitting? So he can jump out and rep after a close call. That's a situation too though, so nvm... With grouping broke as it is i still roam solo and randoms are potaotes What's 'broke' about grouping ? There's nothing wrong with it.
Okay then let go through the last time i tried it
3man group - new guy gets on 1st game of the day gets left behind in CQ,2nd guy me gets the invalid glitch then hard freeze group is broke up
Every other 2nd game someone freezes |
Needless Sacermendor
98
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Posted - 2012.09.08 23:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
But that's got nothing to do with grouping, everyone is getting kicked out of matches and invalid fittings, trying to get more people into the same battle is bound to increase the chances of one of you getting one of the bugs. Grouping isn't broken it just causes more possibility of problems cos there's more people.
In my experience in groups I can continue playing when other members of the group have had invalid or been kicked, so it's not a grouping bug.
Edited : Anyway we're going off topic ... I still think the armor depletion is a means to split the armor and shield tank roles as I've described. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 00:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:But that's got nothing to do with grouping, everyone is getting kicked out of matches and invalid fittings, trying to get more people into the same battle is bound to increase the chances of one of you getting one of the bugs. Grouping isn't broken it just causes more possibility of problems cos there's more people.
In my experience in groups I can continue playing when other members of the group have had invalid or been kicked, so it's not a grouping bug.
Edited : Anyway we're going off topic ... I still think the armor depletion is a means to split the armor and shield tank roles as I've described.
What?
And no fire kills armor, i want a torch then for my dropsuit so i can run around and set tanks no fire |
Pezz IsDank
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
171
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Posted - 2012.09.09 00:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Pezz IsDank wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Im ignoring the whole 'which is better in which situation' because it really doesnt matter Lol ok So what about the part of having a friend as your gunner who also has a repair tool in his fitting? So he can jump out and rep after a close call. That's a situation too though, so nvm... With grouping broke as it is i still roam solo and randoms are potaotes
I don't see how that's relevant to the balance between the two type of tanks. That's a problem on a different front, tactics that can be achieved through teamwork are still viable options because you can get into matches with friends and you can work together with them. Albeit it may be difficult, I usually run solo but I've grouped a couple of times with one other person and we had our troubles but we managed.
Lol at least in this game you can communicate with your team via mics. BF3 really dropped the ball on that one, I can't believe how long it took them to fix that. |
Needless Sacermendor
98
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Posted - 2012.09.09 00:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:But that's got nothing to do with grouping, everyone is getting kicked out of matches and invalid fittings, trying to get more people into the same battle is bound to increase the chances of one of you getting one of the bugs. Grouping isn't broken it just causes more possibility of problems cos there's more people.
In my experience in groups I can continue playing when other members of the group have had invalid or been kicked, so it's not a grouping bug.
Edited : Anyway we're going off topic ... I still think the armor depletion is a means to split the armor and shield tank roles as I've described. What? And no fire kills armor, i want a torch then for my dropsuit so i can run around and set tanks no fire
What ? What ? |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2012.09.09 00:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Well, it's about tradeoffs. That's why there are choices. You can't have everything. Armor tanks don't have the speed, flexibility, passive regen, or anti-infantry ability of shield tanks. Pure shield tanks don't have the ability to repair armor on their own and are susceptible to bleeding out.
Both armor and shield tanks can burn to death if they don't have a way to rep armor. This happens to armor tanks, too, if they used their rep in battle and escaped with low health. I've been in this situation frequently as a militia tank driver and have yet to lose a militia tank to burning out by doing some of the below...
So, if you find yourself frequently in deep armor you can:
1) Fit your dropsuit out with a repair tool. Drive to a relatively safe place, even for a few seconds, and rep up.
2) Group with someone with a repair tool. Drive to a relatively safe place, even for a few seconds, and rep up.
3) Forget about repair tools - give up a low slot and fit an amour rep. It's what armor tanks have to do without much more than a DCU to effectively fit in the high slots. This isn't ideal for a shield tank, but then as a shield tank you shouldn't really be rocking low armor anyway.
4) Forget about repping - just take less armor damage to begin with. Fit a DCU in your highs to give you more armor resistance or fit an armor resistance module in your low slots. Again, this isn't ideal for a shield tank, but then as a shield tank you shouldn't really be rocking low armor anyway.
5) Find an LAV buddy and use remote reps.
6) Get to a supply depot.
7) Take evasive action sooner. If the enemy is blowing through all your 'real' tank and putting you into deep armor, you are taking quite a risk as it is.
--
So there are seven very real, very possible options to save your tank.
Frustrated with grouping? Fine. Fit an infantry armour rep.
Don't have the skills? Skill up, or fit an actual armour rep.
Don't want to 'waste' the low slots? Go to a supply depot. (Even though 'waste' would hardly be the word since finding yourself in low armor is apparently a frequent concern...)
Can't ever seem to find a supply depot (there almost always seems to be one around...)? Maybe break the engagement a little sooner so you don't risk losing your tank to a fire you can't put out. A fire you made several negative decisions to be unable to put out. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 00:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tanks handle like **** and moving out of the way half the time just means smash your way through and hope for the best since turning and acceleration are on the same stick so you cause more damage to your tank trying to move
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Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2012.09.09 00:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Tanks handle like **** and moving out of the way half the time just means smash your way through and hope for the best since turning and acceleration are on the same stick so you cause more damage to your tank trying to move
Being unable to effectively navigate the battlefield in a tank.
I think I found the underlying problem here. |
Needless Sacermendor
98
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Posted - 2012.09.09 00:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Fact of the matter is this ...
The Sagaris dominated everything last build so it has been nerfed. Armor degradation by fire was a simple way to to disadvantage it.
There's nothing stopping you fitting a small LAV size armour rep to it, that won't cost you barely any resources and should be enough to rep you back out of fire damage.
Other than that all I can suggest ... if you don't like it, try training infantry instead. |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2012.09.09 00:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Fact of the matter is this ...
The Sagaris dominated everything last build so it has been nerfed. Armor degradation by fire was a simple way to to disadvantage it.
There's nothing stopping you fitting a small LAV size armour rep to it, that won't cost you barely any resources and should be enough to rep you back out of fire damage.
Other than that all I can suggest ... if you don't like it, try training infantry instead.
Agreed, though Surya's were serious issues last build.
Or...an armor tank... |
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