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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.09.05 22:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
OG DonHel wrote:YGGDRASSIL MONDE wrote:I don't even drive a tank but your argument is flawed you paid multiple of one thing to get that much they pay 1 of one thing to get that much or however much tanks cost then they have to fit them with armor and weapons and modifiers and things so that's even more money also one is an infantry item the other is a tank.... What was the point of even making this thread? Clearly you do not comprehend well... a tank can run into a mass of people blasting and kill them and keep rolling, take my suit that is a few hundred k and try the same thing... it's not rolling out of the massive shitstorm of bullets. get it now? thats why I think that excuse is dumb as fk, you probably use it aswell so thats why you felt compelled to come in here with that reply.
OP needs to stop dying so much as infantry tbh |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
401
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Posted - 2012.09.05 22:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
OG DonHel wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:STB-LURCHASAURUS EV wrote:would you like me to tell you the cost of 20 tank turrets? lol As if you've lost 20 tanks LMFAO As if ANYONE has lost 20 tanks.... BS! I used to run AV then I decided to join the HAV club to expirience those "unkillable" tanks......bah,bah! and BAH!!! So far I think that I hav died in around 250 to 275 times in a Sica and around 65 times in a Gunnlogi. Here try this HAV since they are "OP".......mother kitten! you just killed my hav....again!!! Sooner or later I will get better at running tanks but its kind of a pain when instead of driving a tank and risking a lot of isk then I can just run a militia logi and get more kills and more sp. Sigh. I am just average at fps games and thats the problem. wtf, wow dude. thats like 70 mil+ of ****.. either your full of it or dammmm, I feel for ya... stay the fk out of tank, stay the fk out anything shooting actually lol.. logi definatly sounds better suited for you.. holy **** thats alot of tank loss 0.o
I ran full militia logi for a few rounds then buy a militia Sica then run a militia logi again.
Now I get 150k to 250k isk per round with a militia sica costing 130k and a gunnlogi hull 200k.
I lost one tank per battle or sometimes two but every round I make the isk to run one tank.
As soon as I get some tank skills then I will try using better tank mods but then the problem is folks skilling up better AV and its back to square one for me....sigh.
Still fun anyways.
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OG DonHel
65
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Posted - 2012.09.05 22:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:OG DonHel wrote:YGGDRASSIL MONDE wrote:I don't even drive a tank but your argument is flawed you paid multiple of one thing to get that much they pay 1 of one thing to get that much or however much tanks cost then they have to fit them with armor and weapons and modifiers and things so that's even more money also one is an infantry item the other is a tank.... What was the point of even making this thread? Clearly you do not comprehend well... a tank can run into a mass of people blasting and kill them and keep rolling, take my suit that is a few hundred k and try the same thing... it's not rolling out of the massive shitstorm of bullets. get it now? thats why I think that excuse is dumb as fk, you probably use it aswell so thats why you felt compelled to come in here with that reply. OP needs to stop dying so much as infantry tbh
where the hell do you come up with this statement? |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2012.09.05 23:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
There is a logical issue with the reasoning in this thread.
Rule I - Tanks must be difficult to kill.
The fact of the matter is that a tank - as a tank - must survive more relatively more damage than infantry and be significantly more difficult to kill.Otherwise, there is not point in having a tank in the first place. Just use infantry and this whole issue disappears.
Rule II - Tanks should not be impossible to kill.
Now, since we have now established that tanks should be tougher than infantry (Rule I), it makes sense for their weapons to exceed those of infantry in the event of a tank vs. tank encounter, lest tanks become essentially invincible. And it also makes sense for infantry to develop weapons that can kill tanks, lest tanks become essentially invincible.
Rule III - Tanks should be expensive, but not prohibitively so.
So now we have tanks that are tougher than infantry (Rule I) with weapons that are more powerful than infantry, and infantry weapons specialized to take out tanks (Rule II). The issue here becomes - how powerful do we make tank weapons, and how powerful do we make AV weapons? If AV weapons are so powerful that infantry can kill a tank as though it were an infantryman, we violate Rule I. And tank weapons must allow the tanks to defend themselves well against infantry as a general answer to Rule II. (An alternate idea would be to make tanks essentially useless against infantry, but also making them nearly invulnerable to the same. In other words, vehicles would only really damage vehicles and only be damaged by vehicles. This, however, goes against the common sense idea of a giant railgun blasting into an infantryman with the total effect of knocking the wind out of him.) The balance here is in cost - one should expect to lose a number of dropsuits per round and come out ahead in ISK. One should not be able to lose multiple tanks in a round and come out ahead. Indeed, if most players lose more than one tank per round, they are immediately heavily in the red.
Rule IV - Even weak tanks seem OP when there is no AV on the field.
This is simple math, and is very much the case. Every tank I have lost, I believe I lost to a clout of militia swarm launchers. Two people with decent AV fittings can easily solve the problem. Except very few people are playing specialized AV roles. Which means that otherwise balanced tanks seem OP when there isn't anyone doing effective damage. |
Blunt Smkr
Doomheim
62
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Posted - 2012.09.05 23:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
lol my best dropsuit setup cost me 96k rite now an i rarley die if i'm rockin that setup. so i actually feel bad for tanks that spend a mill+ on there setup cause i can do just as good as them if not better for 1/10th the price lol.
So even though i cant stand tanks i feel they got a good point bout them being tough to kill cause they cost alot. The only problem i have with tanks really is every time i'm finally bout to take one out they manage to speed off to a safe area. An ccp is going to fix that so i'm just sitting back laughin at tankers waiting for the ewar stuff |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1087
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Posted - 2012.09.06 00:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
@ Maximus Stryker
Your bang on da money 3x makes huge sense to me.
+ 1 for you and OP  |
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS
134
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Posted - 2012.09.06 00:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
The reason this game sux is because it's all about vehicles.
No other FPS has ever been like this, wonder why.
because this aint no FPS.
It's made by vehicle lovers for vehicle lovers.
Just get a vehicle accept it or get out. |
Gelan Corbaine
BetaMax.
103
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Posted - 2012.09.06 02:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
What I want to know is why my 1 gun cost as much as a bloody tank not including the suit and mods yet I'm barely compensated for blowing them up . Kill two gunnis in a match yet don't even get enough to cover the expenses of ONE effective suit . And I'm not even talking about a fully decked out proto one !
Never mind as an AV guy EVERYTHING is trying to kill you . Heck I think we even beat out logis on the priority meter .
AV guys cost of living is too high for what we do ! I demand a raise ! |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2012.09.06 02:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gelan Corbaine wrote:
What I want to know is why my 1 gun cost as much as a bloody tank not including the suit and mods yet I'm barely compensated for blowing them up . Kill two gunnis in a match yet don't even get enough to cover the expenses of ONE effective suit . And I'm not even talking about a fully decked out proto one !
Never mind as an AV guy EVERYTHING is trying to kill you . Heck I think we even beat out logis on the priority meter .
AV guys cost of living is too high for what we do ! I demand a raise !
This is also hugely true. Kitting out in AV is, at the moment, essentially begging for one guy with and AR to make a mess of you. TBF, it's less of an issue when not playing Ambush all the time. Then there can actually be squads to support you. |
Wadrok Ibarra
LONE STAR REPUBLIC
0
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Posted - 2012.09.06 03:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
I personally like the tank as is it should be op it's a freaking tank. Not an LAV I do hate geting killed by one but if there is so much commotion about it then maybe train for one. I personally never drive one and don't plan on driving one any time soon. Some thing that seemed to work great in the corp bat was our entire sq used AV grenades for those that had no av skills, well needless to say those advanced tanks got bolown up and guess what? They stoped spawning. Ofcorse it was a combination of grenades and swarms/ forge but that's what team work means find a team and I'm sure things will get better. Oh and don't use the milita heavy swarm that's not a good idea setup a milita assult with swarm for L and sub for S. |
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Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
393
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Posted - 2012.09.06 03:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sha Kharn Clone wrote:@ Maximus Stryker Your bang on da money 3x makes huge sense to me. + 1 for you and OP
Thank you |
Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2012.09.06 03:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
blh blah blah ... irrelevant!!!
if the tank can't die... it doesnt matter how much it cost!!
now as to the cost of the number of suits, weapons, modules and equips ill lose to said tank, multiplied by everyone else that is dying to said tank... those are some numbers worth mentioning.
Add in factor X of small ambush maps being gimped because you can't cross the road... even with an adult holding your hand...I'm sorry mummmy, the tank didnt care... now you're dead...*cries a little*
and you have as CCP have admitted (loosely quoted.. and badly at that) "tanks are damn brokended!"
now if you'll excuse me i have to make a militia fit because all my points in AV are apparently useless!..*wipes tear from eye...* |
OG DonHel
65
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Posted - 2012.09.06 16:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:blh blah blah ... irrelevant!!!
if the tank can't die... it doesnt matter how much it cost!!
now as to the cost of the number of suits, weapons, modules and equips ill lose to said tank, multiplied by everyone else that is dying to said tank... those are some numbers worth mentioning.
Add in factor X of small ambush maps being gimped because you can't cross the road... even with an adult holding your hand...I'm sorry mummmy, the tank didnt care... now you're dead...*cries a little*
and you have as CCP have admitted (loosely quoted.. and badly at that) "tanks are damn brokended!"
now if you'll excuse me i have to make a militia fit because all my points in AV are apparently useless!..*wipes tear from eye...*
hehe +1 |
Osiris Greywolf
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2012.09.06 16:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
TBF, I had no problem with tanks, until I went AV, and put six full Swarm launchers Into one...only to get it to half shields, add to that the amount of damage and havoc they cause. I know people say it's a tank, and is meant to be OP, and I agree, it the indestructible end which is the problem, and if your doing the it's a tank argument, how many tanks are purchasable for the use of one individual, in militias or in armies? I think that they should be corp assets only on release, that might balance the game more. |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2012.09.06 16:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
There are few things more satisfying than successfully trolling/bullying a tank with a fast long-range militia tank.
1200 damage per shot every few seconds or so from across the map is often more than enough to get their attention.
If the tank has already been weakened few shots might even be enough to help the av-infantry to finish the job.
Militia tank with rail-gun is only around 138k you could even add a rail-gun with more punch if you wish.
More the merrier so join the fun!
High tier tanks are for nubs. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.09.06 17:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
Are people really foolish enough to think the cost of the tank means it should be that hard to kill?
They really do not know what they are talking about... |
Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
206
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Posted - 2012.09.06 18:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
well, i've tried to stay away from this topic as both sides are at a stand still, however after a good talk/discussion w/ corp mates the other day waiting for a match, ill bring in what we thought of for tanks-av
1). Of course, unnerf AV weapons (damage, distance, targeting), and possibly even buff them . Reason for this, as essentially running AV limits you more so then any other specialization does.
-The reason for this is your primary weapon slot (either SL or FG). Now a FG is still an effective AI (anti-infantry) weapon, where SL are 100% useless against an infantry, so your sidearm is 100% needed in fire fight; thus upgrading your sidearm is also needed thus more SP required . This also then takes away from your ability to upgrade your core dropsuit skills, whereas a tanker can more easily focus on that; as simply militia weaponry for a tank can kill even a decked out infantry w/ ease.
2). Make Vehicles skills more costly. Yes tankers will rage at this, BUT getting a HAV would take you, whatm one day to get? Whereas you can get proto AV weapons in a day, but you CANNOT use them that day. Most people (average gamer per esay) would need, what, about a week to get into a advanced suit the the least ? All that time the tanks can level up their turrets, shields, etc, making them even harder to kill (yes, tanks should be, but this is just a SP comparison at moment).
-What we thought of was making vehiclescommand something like a 3-5x skill multiplier so it takes time, and thusly if someone wants to spec into it, they need to actually fear having to try and be an infantry player to get SP, or be stuck using militia tanks for a bit and actually fear basic AV setups. Now im not a tanker, so your opinions here would be good (honest ones); DO YOU GUYS FEAR MILITIA/BASIC AV gear in your "real" HAV's (Gung's, Suryas, Sag's), even if there are 1-3 shooting at you and u have gunners in your tank ?
- Along with that, just since you now would have an advanced/proto av weapon & suit ; you also need a sidearm upgraded most likely, as if you run into someone running even a basic AR, but has weaponary, he can "easily" kill you before he enters your effective range of an smg (especially if using a SL.
There might of been something else but cant put my finger on it at the moment. |
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