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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
787
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Posted - 2012.09.04 08:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
So... I don't think it's a secret that I have been using tanks and dropships a lot this build. I've also spent a fair time running AV, so I was pondering ways to make both sides more fun.
Right now, your typical AV encounter when driving a HAV ends up one of a couple ways :
- Most commonly, a group of the enemy team will switch to using the totally harmless militia shock starter fit. When seen, the heavy is blapped by the HAV which merrily continues its bloody rampage
- You get a couple very loosely or uncoordinated people with non militia AV weapons peppering the HAV, forcing you to relocate and recover, no serious threat, probably killing a couple people while you flee.
- You come across a well coordinated group of prototype AV users. Your tank is probably going to die.
- The other team has a tank (Or more than one) This generally comes down to the AV units on both sides and how decent at aiming/driving each player in the HAV is. At least one of the tanks is going to die. Circumstances described generally dictate this.
Your typical AV encounter as a AV infantry when facing an HAV
- You've got nothing but the militia shock starter fit for AV (Maybe tweaked to add AV grenades). Very few people on your team helping you. You die a lot whenever the tank sees you.
- You've got decent AV fit but your team isn't supporting you. You can make the HAV flee by yourself, but without excellent positioning and/or the HAV driver derping... It's usually going to get away. But if it gets a clear shot at you, you're gonna die a lot.
- You're with a group of four friends in your squad, and you're all decked out for vehicle murderin'. You pepper the HAV nonstop and can likely kill it. Without using cover/hills to your advantage to avoid splash/direct damage you're probably going to take heavy losses in your squad while killing the tank still, but a flawless destruction without losing anyone in your squad is possible.
Now, this seems like this is how things should be. HAV's have an edge against infantry but are killable. The main problem is, that during game design CCP probably didn't account for the fact a lot of players would be well... stupid. On paper the current stuff all works fine. But in practice, you've got HAV's rolling around relatively unopposed for the main reason that most people simply do not know how to kill them and cannot work as a team to do so. So where does this leave us? If we buff AV weapons, a coordinated squad will just slaughter a HAV without it having a chance. If we nerf HAV's, it's mostly the same thing. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to change a thing and tanks would be far from 'immortal' as-is.
So, I have a slightly different solution. A massive bulk of my kills as an HAV driver is heavy suits. They are supposed to be able to stand toe to toe with enemy vehicles, but they're nothing more than fodder. I'm proposing a massive resistance buff to the heavy only against vehicle main and secondary turrets. This effectively increases their hitpoints against vehicles without making them impossible for infantry to counter. All the while, it reinforces the heavy suit's role as an anti-vehicle platform while still making them easily killed by infantry without teammates to support them.
I'm thinking the heavy should be able to survive at least one direct railgun blast. Splash damage from missiles and railguns should do practically nothing to a heavy, but enough to add up over prolonged engagements. This change alone would massively change the flow of a game, as a squad of heavies would be able to pretty effectively hold off or kill a HAV without those heavies being easily blapped. Without the tank having infantry support to handle the heavies, it would be at a disadvantage. More team play is good. Making the militia starter AV fit not harmless would also be good.
What do you guys think? |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
787
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 09:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
@ Laz Ulian Sol : You wouldn't really be forcing a heavy to be pure AV. They could easily rock a HMG or any other weapon and go for infantry. The entire point of what I'm saying is that heavies are walking bricks because they are built to take punishment but when it comes down to it... They're terrible at that. They are in a decent place against infantry right now, but their slow speed makes them nothing more than fodder for a decent HAV driver or dropship pilot. So, giving them back their bricklike qualities by making them more resilient against vehicles would just put them where it feels like they should be. Actually able to stand toe to toe with enemy vehicles like they are supposed to.
Edit: The deployable stuff isn't a bad idea, but this thought like I said above is more about placing the heavy suit back where it was designed to be. Definitely make a post for that though in the feedback/requests section :) |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
787
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 09:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
STB-LURCHASAURUS EV wrote:
i think splash resist mods would be an excellent way to go about this. if a heavy gets shot between the eyes with a railgun, he shouldnt be standing, but if its just splash, soak that up all day!
The problem is... they are too easy to hit directly with a railgun. Or missiles.Especially blasters. Without being more resilient to the main turret as well, there is no point in buffing the heavy's resistance. Modules are a great idea, but the heavy should get this bonus inherently as its base resists. Maybe modules can improve it further. I'd be okay with that.
I'm not saying they should be able to sit there and take multiple direct hits... But they should be able to survive one direct blast from a railgun and be put to low/medium armor. A second blast directly should kill him, but it should take a few more splashes to finish him off if he can dodge it or escape from direct LoS. (On that note, Type-II heavy should probably be negated from this base resist bonus as part of what it gives up to get the wicked shield tank and mobility)
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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
787
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 18:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just to clarify again for those who missed it in the OP.
This bonus would make a heavy able to withstand more punishment against vehicles because the vehicle weapons would do less damage than usual, but they would remain the same against infantry.
For those thinking they shouldn't be able to survive a railgun... If you use a railgun tank a lot, (I'm sure Noc, Bad Furry, or anyone else or drives a railgun tank can vouch for this) A heavy is ridiculously easy to snipe with a railgun. Seriously. They are fodder for such an accurate weapon. This is my reasoning for saying a heavy should be able to take at least one shot to the body. They're supposed to be built for it anyways, apparently. Not that I'm saying it wouldn't -hurt- the heavy, but he should be able to barely survive it.
The more important thing to consider though is what that survivability does. First, it creates a situation where if a tank driver is running around and sees two heavies on the road he doesn't immediately think 'Oooh. Easy kills!' This forces the tank driver to either avoid them or slow down/stop to kill them, rather than simply sniping them with one shot while driving without caring. What does making a tank stop do? Everything. Well coordinated players could lay some pretty awesome ambushes, and for those who aren't, a stationary tank gives you that much more time to attack it before it can flee. That time is precious for AV players. Further, more time that a heavy is alive means more shots put into the tank. More damage being done overall means the tank's day just got worse. Even if he kills the heavy, he's still taken more damage from one guy than he normally would, and that is less damage anyone else has to do to finish him off.
That said, even with the resistance bonus, a proto scout with a proto swarm launcher/pistol will still probably be the best AV suit. The higher mobility and the ability to escape/dictate range vs other infantry means they are still a massive threat to infantry and vehicles alike. The boost to heavy resistances would make a heavy more like a walking roadblock, but not a win button against vehicles. |
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