DUST Search - Tanks and infantry...

Bones McGavins wrote:

First off, im not saying dont show K/D. Im saying take that away as the focus, and focus on isk damaged versus isk lost. Instead of default listing players by kill, list them by isk damage. Add that ratio as a search on the leader boards and make it a focus. Keep other stats for players to see, but put an emphasis on what matters.

The point is to make new comers and typical FPS players relax on worrying about their k/d and make them feel useful even if they died 8 times to that tank. If they damaged it 40% when it got destroyed, they should get 40% of its value towards their isk damage score.

Secondly, worrying about losing a 300K proto suit to a single rail gun shot is valid. But it throws the same concerns. However, you have to remember, folks can res that 300K suit and bring that player back in the game. You cant do that with a tank.

Eventually, I assume the game will play with new players fighting new players in more typical FPS style quick matches. Spending money to win these battles wont make a ton of sense. But its possible. A focus on ISK as a driving stat of success/failure will help mitigate new players from being upset about a tank owning them. (not solve, but help mitigate).

While organized corporations will fight using the vast array of equipment that the game will have. You will have that 300K proto suit defended by some cheaper infantry, and some medics to keep it alive, supplied and resed. But in each scenario, players will want to be able to see how effective they are. And just because you lost 4 25K suits while fighting 1 200K tank doesnt mean you werent effective. The resulting stats should show that rather then show the guy who lost hsi 200K tank going 4-1 against the guy who lost 100K in suits.

If Im a coorp looking for new members I want to be able to see their stats and value their play. In most games k/d is a pretty good indicator. Here it simply isnt. An ISK ratio would be.


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Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.08.27 22:51:00 - [1] - Quote the concept is good in essense, mainly b/c in this game KDR means more then just KDR. You nee to add monetary value to its KDR, as if you are using non militia gear, aside from your say 10-3 for a game, need to count in costs. So lets say you are running a basic SL-av setup costing roughly say 25k or so . Your three deaths then warrant a 75k isk loss for the match. If you arent able to kill the tank you may break even, but barely On a differ note about blobbing together, weak to kill a strong. I find it works again infantry quite well, however tanks are a totally differ story. I am NOT a tanker so i dont know the current armor and shield amount people are currently getting, so please bare w/ me if the amounts are to high. Say you run into someone running a Sica (thats the armor one), with say 5k shields, and 5k armor ; along w/ lots of other goodies. If you have AV people dying before they are getting to the tank in their good gear and switch to militia (which in most cases you would). Assuming the person has leveled stats (mainly weaponry to lv5), a volley of militia SL will cause 1610 damage. In order to take out the shields ud need 3-4 people just for the shields. Now assume after the 1st volley hits from all 3 people, and the person loses their shields. Time to shield boost and run away. With current SL horrible flight path (as they should be taking the air route yet they do line of sight), moving behind cover is drastically easier then last build. So by the time they move from cover, and boost & rep the damage done is nullified. If the AV people try to pursue, most likely will be killed the the tank as they'd see them coming or call over mics for infantry to pick them off. Im simply saying, a ehh/moderate build tank ranging from say 300k-3mil can more easily deplete AV suits. Even if in militia now and dont really lose anything; later on if people spec into proto gear ; one shot from a railgun (direct or splash), but likey kill them. So that say 300k suit is down the drain. At that point do you take another out and risk it, or run to militia gear? I realize i may have been all over the place w/ the post; simply getting at; is that AV v Tank still might be an issue ; especially when people start getting their Surya's and Sagaris's
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.08.27 23:35:00 - [2] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: First off, im not saying dont show K/D. Im saying take that away as the focus, and focus on isk damaged versus isk lost. Instead of default listing players by kill, list them by isk damage. Add that ratio as a search on the leader boards and make it a focus. Keep other stats for players to see, but put an emphasis on what matters. The point is to make new comers and typical FPS players relax on worrying about their k/d and make them feel useful even if they died 8 times to that tank. If they damaged it 40% when it got destroyed, they should get 40% of its value towards their isk damage score. Secondly, worrying about losing a 300K proto suit to a single rail gun shot is valid. But it throws the same concerns. However, you have to remember, folks can res that 300K suit and bring that player back in the game. You cant do that with a tank. Eventually, I assume the game will play with new players fighting new players in more typical FPS style quick matches. Spending money to win these battles wont make a ton of sense. But its possible. A focus on ISK as a driving stat of success/failure will help mitigate new players from being upset about a tank owning them. (not solve, but help mitigate). While organized corporations will fight using the vast array of equipment that the game will have. You will have that 300K proto suit defended by some cheaper infantry, and some medics to keep it alive, supplied and resed. But in each scenario, players will want to be able to see how effective they are. And just because you lost 4 25K suits while fighting 1 200K tank doesnt mean you werent effective. The resulting stats should show that rather then show the guy who lost hsi 200K tank going 4-1 against the guy who lost 100K in suits. If Im a coorp looking for new members I want to be able to see their stats and value their play. In most games k/d is a pretty good indicator. Here it simply isnt. An ISK ratio would be. as is, i 100% they need to add more things to look at besides KDR, however KDR is more important in this game then another game, b/c each death 90% of the time matters (10% revived so ok). Im not sure about isk damage, but id like to see damage via WP done like in BF3. granted ud need to up kills to 100, and give assist points to the % of damage done. So for losing the 300k proto suit like i brought up; now im not even close to it, but it doesnt matter, as i think in playing the 8 days or so i have, i think ive been revived 2 times by a non squad/group member. So at this point im not banking to much on reviving; and you dont know if being killed via a tank missle/railgun will allow for a rez; as grenade deaths arent revive-able. True you cant revive a tank; but you CAN repair it; and i bet most good tankers who will group up w/ have designated repairer or be spider tanking. As the game is now though; if you do die 4x each in a 25k suit trying to take out a tank and it doesnt get destroyed, you WERE ineffective. Granted you may have stopped the destruction for a minute, but ultimately you werent effective unless that tank was destroyed (by you or by assist)
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.08.28 02:12:00 - [3] - Quote this kind of strayed from tanks v infantry, but not in a bad way really. For in game purposes, from what i gather you'd want the board to be setup by WP (war points .. ie, the points u get for kills, assists, hacks, etc) first, then KDR on to the right of that (like BF, shows points, then kdr)