DUST Search - Why does AV seem broken?

Michael P Jagger wrote:

Did some math.

A full Swarm Launcher skill set will cost you 9,728,000 SP
An Assault Suit with a Prototype SL fit (No accessories like side arm or grenades) will cost you 111,120 ISK
That fit, if all six missiles hit, will give you (Approximations because of variable acquisition time)

Alpha: 2,927.4 HP
First Clip: 11,709.6 HP and 918.4 DPS
Sustained: 574 DPS

I've been told by HAV drivers they can reliably fit 14K EHP using a shield tank.

So (if I got the numbers close to right) After spending almost 10M Skill Points on Swarm Launchers and putting upwards of 110,000 ISK into their drop suit two coordinated players could Alpha a single tank.

Weaponry15512,0003% to light weapon damage
Swarm Launcher Operation251,024,0005% to damage radius
Swarm Launcher Proficiency552,560,0003% to rate of fire
Light Weapon Reload251,024,0003% to reload time
Light Weapon Reload Pro552,560,0002% to reload time
Assault Drop Suit 4842,048,000Three High Slots

Adv Assault131,92031,920
Complex Light Damage Modifier310,36031,080
Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher148,12048,120

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Ruthra V25 Conspiratus Immortalis 40	Posted - 2012.08.26 22:25:00 - [31] - Quote AV should not be as simple as it was last build, AV is a task for a team So many cry about this and that, when most of you have not even hit anykind of endgame gear. Why not just fight, get your SP and move on. In time we will be able to pick a battle on a Gear lvl..as in all Proto battle..then when you have a level playing field you can get into any kind of balance. So just play for now and enjoy your time. hell laugh a little have some fun
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.08.26 22:52:00 - [32] - Quote Swarms target the icon of the vehicle/installation you are targeting. It's more manageable against vehicles but this sort of makes the swarms fly into the ground more often vs installations - even when firing from higher ground. Swarms should target the turret on installations.
Ekull Zekariah 117	Posted - 2012.08.27 11:01:00 - [33] - Quote Yeah I'm definitely discouraged by AV in this build. MANY a time I am seeing Drop Ships outrun Swarm missiles. That shouldn't happen. Even at Advanced or Proto level Swarms, they seem to be useless on most of the terrain in any map. I agree we aren't making BF4 here, but I don't think it would be the worst thing for the Swarm Launchers to take a leaf out of the Javelin's book. Forge gunners already have the Direct Fire Weapon. Swarms are lock and chase. They should fly straight up and aquire their target. Swarm users already deal with extremely long reloads, low ammo, and being left wide open to infantry. So their weapon should at least put the fear of God into a pilot or driver. Another leaf that CCp could take would be flares/anti-lock for vehicles. They should have a very long cool-down rate, but it would at least allow the driver/pilot to exit the area before a lock is re-aquired. I'm looking at both sides of the fence here. I don't think Swarms should be every shot landed, but I think they need to be given a leg up or I just can't justify using mine for much longer. And limiting the range of a Forge is just mean. If vehicles can fire from afar, so should Forge Guns.
Rupture Reaperson Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 37	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:01:00 - [34] - Quote 3 things Missiles going full ********, especially againt instalations. Also the lock on seems to work whenever it feels like. When a tank can outrun an assault suit, we have a problem. AV nades, a joke against tanks. /thread
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:12:00 - [35] - Quote What is happening is that DS are flying higher than the missiles can reach. Forge gun effective range seems ot be about 75 meters which isnt that far. needs to be me about 150 meters for skills to matter as well. AV nades working well now atm. AV skill points vs HAV skill favors the tank.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:19:00 - [36] - Quote A problem I've had with the swarm launcher is the missles not going in a straight line. More than once I've locked on to a target with nothing in between us and, for some reason, all the rockets jump off in an odd direction and hit a nearby hillside or building.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:22:00 - [37] - Quote What I love is how some of the missile will lock and some will dumbfire.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:51:00 - [38] - Quote STB-LURCHASAURUS EV wrote: the idea where swarms fly up and rain down like a javelin is unneeded. If your swarms are hitting obstacles on the way, you are doing it wrong or the driver is good. If you dont put points into AV, dont complain when you cant pop a tank. if you have specced av, your a lot more effective than you think and pack quite a punch. if after that you still cant pop a tank, your doing it wrong or the driver is good. there have a couple times where i have gotten careless and i ended up with 5-6 av grenades on my tank because of a functioning squad....cant do much about that.... Except that in this build the nerfed range of the forge gun asks that the AV guy be CLOSE to the HAV and in that situation I get picked off by folks that are shadowing your tank. Heres a better question: How many tanks have you lost to forge guns in this build??
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.08.27 12:57:00 - [39] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: What is happening is that DS are flying higher than the missiles can reach. Forge gun effective range seems ot be about 75 meters which isnt that far. needs to be me about 150 meters for skills to matter as well. AV nades working well now atm. AV skill points vs HAV skill favors the tank. Gee bet you will never guess what AV skilltree I am doing this build?? Did you say HAV antivehicle??? Yep!!! AV grenades USELESS versus HAV. Swarms USELESS versus HAV and DS. Forge guns USELESS versus HAVs and DS. So that leaves HAVs as the only viable AV option. And last build all I did was Forge gun SMG heavy to kill tanks. But in this build?? AV is useless!! Better skillup a HAV.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:04:00 - [40] - Quote Alshadow wrote: AV grenades are amazing tho, i love how they work now, and with how nano hive regenerate grenades now, i can stomp most vehicles if im in a safe spot and they arent moving, also i love how i can throw them on the ground like a AT mine........ ok ok... so i had and LAV by an objective and i saw an enemy goin to hack my LAV so i threw an AV grenade right at it, and as soon as it got hacked it blew up instantly killing him LAVs .......pffft! Those get killed by ANYTHING!!! Good luck on doing that versus a Sagaris or even a Gunnlogi.

Bones1182 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2012.08.27 13:33:00 - [41] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: What is happening is that DS are flying higher than the missiles can reach. Forge gun effective range seems ot be about 75 meters which isnt that far. needs to be me about 150 meters for skills to matter as well. AV nades working well now atm. AV skill points vs HAV skill favors the tank. The range on the forge was originally 1200m and I think it needs to go back there. Minimum it needs to be 300m since a tank can actually annihilate an entire squad at the range.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 905	Posted - 2012.08.27 14:49:00 - [42] - Quote For the forge I've now put over 1 million SP into heavy weapon sharp shooter and sharp shooter proficiency. I was taking a wait and see approach until I did this. The range nerf on the forge gun was way too much. One of the HAV's best defensive mechanisms was and is to leave an engagement, and with logi gunners repping the tank when it's out of LOS. With the range nerf, even with a forge AV team, once a HAV has taken heavy damage it can easily move out of the range of the forge gunners.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.27 15:04:00 - [43] - Quote Agreed Forge Gun Nerf was overdone.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2012.08.27 15:06:00 - [44] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Agreed Forge Gun Nerf was overdone.
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 393	Posted - 2012.08.27 15:12:00 - [45] - Quote what about vehicle mines. similar to that game that we shall not mention...
Michael P Jagger Algintal Core Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2012.08.27 15:15:00 - [46] - Quote For anyone interested I've worked out some numbers for swarm launchers here... Swarm Launcher Damage and Skill Points Needed. Comments appreciated.
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 393	Posted - 2012.08.27 15:23:00 - [47] - Quote Michael P Jagger wrote: Did some math. A full Swarm Launcher skill set will cost you 9,728,000 SP An Assault Suit with a Prototype SL fit (No accessories like side arm or grenades) will cost you 111,120 ISK That fit, if all six missiles hit, will give you (Approximations because of variable acquisition time) Alpha: 2,927.4 HP First Clip: 11,709.6 HP and 918.4 DPS Sustained: 574 DPS I've been told by HAV drivers they can reliably fit 14K EHP using a shield tank. So (if I got the numbers close to right) After spending almost 10M Skill Points on Swarm Launchers and putting upwards of 110,000 ISK into their drop suit two coordinated players could Alpha a single tank. Weaponry15512,0003% to light weapon damage Swarm Launcher Operation251,024,0005% to damage radius Swarm Launcher Proficiency552,560,0003% to rate of fire Light Weapon Reload251,024,0003% to reload time Light Weapon Reload Pro552,560,0002% to reload time Assault Drop Suit 4842,048,000Three High Slots Adv Assault131,92031,920 Complex Light Damage Modifier310,36031,080 Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher148,12048,120 Interesting
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.08.27 15:32:00 - [48] - Quote Swarms are broken vs LAV's. You can't outrun them so you are dead on open terrain. You can't juke them, I've had swarms fly PAST me and instantly hit the back of my LAV (as in I'm going one way in the LAV, at top speed, guy fires swarms as I drive past him, back down the way I came. Sometimes they will flip your LAV around so you face the way you came and kill all your momentum, leaving you wide open for more swarms. That isn't how physics work. This build is all about dropships that never land, and LAVs that need to stay off road. Wut.
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.08.27 15:34:00 - [49] - Quote nevermind..


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