DUST Search - How Boarding could Theoretically Work

pew pew youredead wrote:

the thing is, a capsuleer controls his ship through a neural interface. and there is no such weapon as neural interface jammers because if there would be the Empires (read non capsuleers) would have wiped out the capsuleers, because the capsuleers are on no-one's sides but their own and they'd rather get rid of them. and i don't think the eve community will allow that either. remember that there is a player elected council that is there to tell CCP "hey guys, that thing you did, not such a great idea, you need to reconsider" and CCP has done stuff the player base made them to undo because they weren't happy and subscriptions were dropped

http://mmodata.blogspot.be/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html

http://ardentdefense.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/eve-jita-mass-protest/

http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/24/ccp-offers-an-apologise-disgruntled-eve-online-players-lock-down-jita-surrounding-systems-very-crowded-too/

and as i said it, it's still a one way interaction, mercs boards your ship, mercs versu mercs fight ensues, mercs win and take your ship, where's is the ability for the eve player to get rid of them?

who talks about smart ideas in eve, if an fc orders you to shoot someone in your fleet, you do it man.

a guy told me he was ordered by his fc to drop a bomb on one of their own carriers to kill the enemy drones attacking it.
i have shot people in my fleet because the FC said so and i have no remorse doing it, specially when they screw up

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STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 06:35:00 - [31] - Quote Lukien Stark wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Lukien Stark wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Stations and Outposts would be a better option for space to space combat. That seems a bit like your personal opinion as to me fighting aboard a ship seems a bit more... enticing Which is also your personal opinion. I didn't say it was better or worst troll There is a difference between actual trolling and simply using the same rhetoric you used. Anyways, I'm not sure boarding will work with Dust. I'm not an EVE player but I'd assume that one simply can't fly around looking for people to attack. Boarding on Dusk would require looking for actually ships to board which may be more time-consuming than most would want. I didn't use a term of superiority or inferiority to describe my post And the prize aboard the ship could sometimes be worth the wait
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 06:58:00 - [32] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: They would be able to fight the ship that is trying to board them before the ship is close enough to launch board pods. If you can't stop the ship from damaging you enough to be boarded you'd be screwed anyways then what's the point of boarding the ship if it's damaged and about to die? besides fighting the boarding ship is still eve to eve only interaction only, it has to be two ways of interaction and think about this, i'm getting boarded, yup kk no problem, i didn't want that ship anyways ( self destruct engaged, 5 minutes remaining) and booooom all those expensive protosuits and weapons, gone, and not a single thing you can do to prevent it or "hey guys! i'm getting boarded, primary me NOW!" really i think you should reconsider this POS, POCOs and outpost boarding sound more feasible game mechanics wise
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 07:14:00 - [33] - Quote Janmers on the ship launching the pods to keep the ship from self destructing? Also primaring a harmless ship while being damaged by hostile ships is a smart idea
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.08.25 07:45:00 - [34] - Quote Glad this idea hasn't disapeared, I still really want this.
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 07:45:00 - [35] - Quote the thing is, a capsuleer controls his ship through a neural interface. and there is no such weapon as neural interface jammers because if there would be the Empires (read non capsuleers) would have wiped out the capsuleers, because the capsuleers are on no-one's sides but their own and they'd rather get rid of them. and i don't think the eve community will allow that either. remember that there is a player elected council that is there to tell CCP "hey guys, that thing you did, not such a great idea, you need to reconsider" and CCP has done stuff the player base made them to undo because they weren't happy and subscriptions were dropped http://mmodata.blogspot.be/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html http://ardentdefense.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/eve-jita-mass-protest/ http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/24/ccp-offers-an-apologise-disgruntled-eve-online-players-lock-down-jita-surrounding-systems-very-crowded-too/ and as i said it, it's still a one way interaction, mercs boards your ship, mercs versu mercs fight ensues, mercs win and take your ship, where's is the ability for the eve player to get rid of them? who talks about smart ideas in eve, if an fc orders you to shoot someone in your fleet, you do it man. a guy told me he was ordered by his fc to drop a bomb on one of their own carriers to kill the enemy drones attacking it. i have shot people in my fleet because the FC said so and i have no remorse doing it, specially when they screw up
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 07:48:00 - [36] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Glad this idea hasn't disapeared, I still really want this. i'm gonna have a word of two with Enkouyami about this
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 07:52:00 - [37] - Quote pew pew youredead wrote: the thing is, a capsuleer controls his ship through a neural interface. and there is no such weapon as neural interface jammers because if there would be the Empires (read non capsuleers) would have wiped out the capsuleers, because the capsuleers are on no-one's sides but their own and they'd rather get rid of them. and i don't think the eve community will allow that either. remember that there is a player elected council that is there to tell CCP "hey guys, that thing you did, not such a great idea, you need to reconsider" and CCP has done stuff the player base made them to undo because they weren't happy and subscriptions were dropped http://mmodata.blogspot.be/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html http://ardentdefense.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/eve-jita-mass-protest/ http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/24/ccp-offers-an-apologise-disgruntled-eve-online-players-lock-down-jita-surrounding-systems-very-crowded-too/ and as i said it, it's still a one way interaction, mercs boards your ship, mercs versu mercs fight ensues, mercs win and take your ship, where's is the ability for the eve player to get rid of them? who talks about smart ideas in eve, if an fc orders you to shoot someone in your fleet, you do it man. a guy told me he was ordered by his fc to drop a bomb on one of their own carriers to kill the enemy drones attacking it. i have shot people in my fleet because the FC said so and i have no remorse doing it, specially when they screw up The ability to rid mercs would be prior to being boarded as the pod launching will have to be at a crazy close range
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:20:00 - [38] - Quote it needs to be at the same time, not prior to boarding
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:22:00 - [39] - Quote pew pew youredead wrote: it needs to be at the same time, not prior to boarding But how would that work?
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.08.26 08:39:00 - [40] - Quote To give a reason for boarding, ship-boarding should be for capturing ships intact, since boarding just to destroy would be kind of pointless since other ships could do it faster than some mercs could. I really like the sabotage idea; messing with the insides of a powerful ship that would otherwise be unbeatable to give challengers an advantage. A special cloaking modules should be part of the boarding pod to prevent the ship from being destroyed. Special E-warfare module must be on the pod as well to disable the self-destruct option, and to prevent the ship from escaping. There must also be an NPC version of this mode so players in Highsec can experience ship environments in combat.

J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.08.26 12:13:00 - [41] - Quote In a combat situation EVE battles don't last long enough to make it feasible. You would be sitting in the game lobby still when the enemy ship died. Now heres the ONLY way I could see it happening. Your gate camping or something and find a lone ship. Throw up stasis webs and slow it down. Then, a frigate with specially equipped CRU modules are fired at the enem ship. The frigate is locked down and cannot do much else during this period. The CRUs can be targeted by the enemy ship and killed. If the CRUs latch on, they brcome spawn points with a set number of clones. From there on you have to fight to destroy or disable the capsuleers pod inside, all while enemy mercs contracted to fight you fight back. If you succeed, the enemy ships pod pilot dies, and the enemy ship is set to follow the frigate that launched the pods closely. The ship can also be ordered to dock in a station, warp to a certain point, give itself to another pilots control, etc. Not perfect but the best way to do it I can think of at the moment.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.08.26 19:24:00 - [42] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: In a combat situation EVE battles don't last long enough to make it feasible. You would be sitting in the game lobby still when the enemy ship died. Now heres the ONLY way I could see it happening. Your gate camping or something and find a lone ship. Throw up stasis webs and slow it down. Then, a frigate with specially equipped CRU modules are fired at the enem ship. The frigate is locked down and cannot do much else during this period. The CRUs can be targeted by the enemy ship and killed. If the CRUs latch on, they brcome spawn points with a set number of clones. From there on you have to fight to destroy or disable the capsuleers pod inside, all while enemy mercs contracted to fight you fight back. If you succeed, the enemy ships pod pilot dies, and the enemy ship is set to follow the frigate that launched the pods closely. The ship can also be ordered to dock in a station, warp to a certain point, give itself to another pilots control, etc. Not perfect but the best way to do it I can think of at the moment. If the goal is to loot a ship, or steal the ship itself, then it would be good incentive to refrain from just quickly destroying the ship. To keep others from destroying it, a module can be built into the boarding pods for cloaking the victim ship from others that would potentially destroy the ship while the battle goes on inside.
kalahari ilkeston Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2012.08.27 17:19:00 - [43] - Quote Jarre Jardox wrote: I can see so many things wrong with option 2. First is all the whining from a massive amount of eve players. Second is the massive amount of trolling tht smart eve players will do on dust mercs. Consider this ur war barge is flying around wen u encounter a nice shiny Titan so u start ur boarding deal and once u get ur pods in the Titan or u dock or whatever (basically past the point of no return) another 20 titans warp in lock down the Titan ur on and they all fire up their doomsdays on said Titan cus at this point theyd rather blow up their own Titan than have u steal it, then all ur millions of isk in clones are gone. so then change warbarge with titan why have one titan when you can have 2? and if you have 20 friends warp in with 20 titans??? well whats stopping you from attempting to board all 20 titans or have 20 friends warp in with 20 titans to board 20 titans so then youll have 40 titans, or sure you can blow each other up, destroy yourselves and all your 20 titans, im sure the 20 other titans will help
kalahari ilkeston Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2012.08.27 17:36:00 - [44] - Quote Lukien Stark wrote: Anyways, I'm not sure boarding will work with Dust. I'm not an EVE player but I'd assume that one simply can't fly around looking for people to attack. Boarding on Dusk would require looking for actually ships to board which may be more time-consuming than most would want. OK replace ship with planet, same thing, were not going to be waiting flying to a planet ready to go attack Since dust soldiers are clones with transferable consciousness, it can work like this 1. eve attacker piloting ship wants to take over another ship 2. check if any available dust players ready to go? 3. dock, shoot, board whatever 4. eve attacker leaves, eve defending ship is now infested with dust solider that didnt wait IRL to go on a boarding raid In reality 90% of dust players dont really care which ship they are boarding, just as long as they board any ship. As far as eve is concerned, dust soldiers would be just like another weapon As far as dust is concerned, just another ship, just another map to blow up bad guys... Will dust players care, hmm this ship looks like the last 20 ships we boarded... NO CCP could easily make maps with multiple solutions and program in simple "block these random hallways" to change to path to the objective and map the same maps totally different
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2012.08.30 06:29:00 - [45] - Quote Okay, here goes. 1. It would only work with certain types of ships. Some ships would be too small, some would be too large. Which facilitates the second point: 2. The ship needs to be outfitted with defensive CRU's. The more you have on your ship, the more respawns you get to fight with. 3. There need to be unusual rewards for fighting in a ship battle. This is due to the fact that ship battles are going to happen more suddenly and be much more fast-paced--hence, the window for joining them is very small, and you're going to need to have DUST players on the lookout for an opportunity to get into a ship battle, otherwise you won't get enough players to make it happen. (Imagine initiating a battle and you get two players in one team and no players in the other.) 4. Pilots have a self-destruct timer so they can go scorched earth if they don't think their mercs will win, however it must be on a timer so they can't just bail as soon as their merc count gets down to 1. These are some conditions that I think would have to be met in order for it to work. I don't think it will work, however. In battles things move too quickly, and if you're catching a lone pilot at a gate camp, why does that pilot want to fight back? Why not just self-destruct from the start, since you're going to lose your ship and get pod-killed either way (I mean, if my mercs win I'm still being webbed and surrounded by a gate camp)?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.30 06:55:00 - [46] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I vote for no on the second option for the sole reason that a ship can melt faster than you can throw a defense contract up and its economically cheaper to blow the damn thing up than to capture it. There could be jamming modules to keel the ship from self destructing on the war barge. Also what if the warbarge pilot could go into a "hunting mode" where mercs are on stand by until the war barge finds a target, weakens it, and launches the pod. And this is when we purposely board our own ships to prevent losing them. Congradualtiosn this is what we call 'aritificalating' or 'hand holding'
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.30 07:59:00 - [47] - Quote No to ship boarding combat. It doesn't scale right, there is no desire from the EVE community, and it doesn't fit with CCP's previously stated goals for integration of the two games into one universe. Not to mention it would be a coding nightmare that makes the development of the current EVE/DUST link look like child's play. I made some blather a while back about station/POS fights in a thread here.
Van Aewulf Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 95	Posted - 2012.08.30 13:19:00 - [48] - Quote TL;DR: Boarding is a double-edged sword. It's more trouble than it's worth, and Dusters have no idea what they're dealing with. I have to go with no for ship boarding. The idea is cool, but in practice it would be terrible. Sure, you could capture a nearly worthless frigate. 2 fights in Dust right now will net you the cost of a frigate. The only ship worth boarding and capturing really would be a Titan. Everything else is too cheap to sweat it, and yes a 20b isk supercarrier isn't worth the time it would take it capture and hold it. Furthermore, I don't believe the lore would match up. Say a capsuleer was boarded, and the Dust soldiers were duking it out for the ship. A) The neural mapping of the ship would allow for the capsuleer to singlehandedly control ALL on-board defense turrets. I mean, of course they would be installed if the threat of boarding existed. The capsuleer's brain would control all of these turrets effectively shooting at every mercenary on his lonesome. He wouldn't even need soldiers, just install enough on board turrets to blow anything to hell and back. How can he control so many turrets you say? The same way he controls a massive lumbering space ship performing orbital strikes and flying a spaceship across systems, aiming and firing 8 howitzers or blah blah blah. B) Ok, so the Dust soldiers are winning the fight not only against the on board defense forces but the defensive turrets too. Well, the capsuleer is in a pod and in no real danger. Why not just decompress and bust open the airlocks? Suddenly all your soldiers will need to be equipped with proper equipment to prevent loss of things like: oxygen, loss of heat to almost 0 kelvin in some circumstances, or radiation, or goes knows what else. C) This whole war barge idea is only effective in scenarios where gangs effectively tie down a single ship or a very small gang. Any reasonably sized party with any firepower would immediately primary a barge and kill any dust soldiers on board. A titan can be melted in 5 minutes or less, so I can't imagine your War Barge standing up to that kind of punishment. Suddenly you and all your mates are space dust. D) More on board turrets! Literally there are so many possibilities with this it's unreal because the capsuleer controls most of the ship with his brain. He's going to kill so many of your soldiers that you'll be crying to CCP to nerf capsuleers so it's a fair fight. Stay out of EVE ships, there are demons in those ships you don't want to wake up. If ships can be boarded, then I say any structures on a planet, including your corp HQ, should be targetable by orbital bombardment and blown to smithereens. AFK or hanging with your corp mates in your HQ? Suddenly out of nowhere a nuclear blast rains down from the heavens so intense the entire planet is permanently effected by the holocaust a capsuleer has brought upon your home. What are you gonna do about it? Send a boarding party? :D TL;DR: Boarding is a double-edged sword. It's more trouble than it's worth, and Dusters have no idea what they're dealing with.
Kincate Algintal Core Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2012.08.30 16:43:00 - [49] - Quote Nu11u5 wrote: I would rather see a system very similar to this, but used as one way to change control of stations in Eve nullsec space. +1 to this at least to start. One thing you have to consider about ships and stations though. They have crew. Crew that arent seen or acknowledged much but theyre there.


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