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Swarms are a little OP

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Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.08.24 01:51:00 - [1] - Quote I think the damage they do is fine, but currently they don't require much thought to use. Especially since they tend to turn on a dime now. I've seen them numerous times take a 90 degree turn. What they need to do is fly in the direction you launch them for a certain number of meters, and then head towards the target, allowing you to rain missiles from above down to a target. Missiles flying 5 feet off the ground for 100's of meters and making 90 degree turns looks dumb and is too easy to use.
Randrii Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 121	Posted - 2012.08.24 02:02:00 - [2] - Quote The thing is with Swarms is they go straight for their target. If you can get the Swarms close to the target, they will follow it untill they hit since they'll be riding on the target's ass. If you fire the Swarms from a distance though, they still go in a straight line even if there are obstacles in the way. When I fire, I wait untill the target drives into an open area with a clear path. Basically, if you hide behind cover while the swarms are at a distance you'll avoid them with ease, but if they get close you're pretty ******.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.08.24 02:04:00 - [3] - Quote I've had them come around obstacles to hit me. And I've had them go down to the ground and then follow the target when I fired them straight into the air. I preferred the swarms in the last build. :/
Stile451 Red Star. 76	Posted - 2012.08.24 02:41:00 - [4] - Quote The current swarms are good for dummy firing and use in enclosed spaces, last build it sucked for enclosed spaces. This build I've seen them do some crazy things like immediately take a 90 to the left and then another 90 to the right to hit something in front of me,
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.24 04:00:00 - [5] - Quote You can actually dodge them now... They can make some crazy turns but you can actually dodge them. That wasn't possible in the last build. I've even managed to do it in my tank. It's tricky but you can do it.
Jean-Henri 30	Posted - 2012.08.24 05:31:00 - [6] - Quote 90 degrees?...hehehehhehehe... I had a jeep charge me whilst i tried to get a lock on him, my scout suit jumped him easily, and i fired at that point.... Swarms took off about 20 metres then did a 180 degree flip to take him out..... I felt totally leet uber sauce
Etero Narciss Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 112	Posted - 2012.08.24 07:19:00 - [7] - Quote I once fired a volley that took a whole minute to kill the target, because apparently the guy wasn't stopping (and didn't notice the swarm, I guess). You can imagine my surprise when I got the kill feed.
Jack McReady 46	Posted - 2012.08.24 08:23:00 - [8] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: You can actually dodge them now... They can make some crazy turns but you can actually dodge them. That wasn't possible in the last build. I've even managed to do it in my tank. It's tricky but you can do it. not true, you could dodge swarms in the last build even in tanks. a sharp turn and the stupid swarm lock AI tried to turn too but in a strange pattern thus hit the ground instead.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.24 13:38:00 - [9] - Quote Swarms are definitely OP. If the Militia SL can kill a Gunnology single-handed, it is so far beyond OP it is fundamentally flawed. And yes, this is not mere speculation. I HAVE killed a Gunnology, with the heavy/SL starter fit.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.24 13:39:00 - [10] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: You can actually dodge them now... They can make some crazy turns but you can actually dodge them. That wasn't possible in the last build. I've even managed to do it in my tank. It's tricky but you can do it. In order to dodge, you need to know they are coming.

Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.24 13:44:00 - [11] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Swarms are definitely OP. If the Militia SL can kill a Gunnology single-handed, it is so far beyond OP it is fundamentally flawed. And yes, this is not mere speculation. I HAVE killed a Gunnology, with the heavy/SL starter fit. This is not really possible. I drive a gunloggi and I don't even move if a militia swarm is shooting me. I don't fear them at all. If a militia swarm is taking out a gunloggi, then the gunloggi was fit horribly and that is user error on the driver's part. A single militia swarm does about 400-500 damage after resistancse are applied. The damage is so small I can easily tell that it is a militia swarm and not standard. The two shot + reload makes them a complete joke. I can almost passively rep up that damage in an active tank while your swarms are reloading. You can take all of your shots at me before I even consider turning on my booster in a well fit/skilled gunloggi.
Django Reeve Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.08.24 15:16:00 - [12] - Quote Just found out Swarm launchers suck against tank :S Tanks shoot faster then you, and the slow speed of the swarms, makes the tank easily be able to just drive back or forth a second before they hit and they avoid it. O.o
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2012.08.24 15:20:00 - [13] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Swarms are definitely OP. If the Militia SL can kill a Gunnology single-handed, it is so far beyond OP it is fundamentally flawed. And yes, this is not mere speculation. I HAVE killed a Gunnology, with the heavy/SL starter fit. I would say the opposite. I've gotten off three full volleys (granted it was a militia launcher because I was dying so much, but still three volleys) at a tank and barely even dented its shields. If the swarm launcher isn't a useful anti-vehicle weapon, what is it exactly? Last night half my team went heavy to try to take out a tank and didn't even get its shields to half. The driver ended up with a score of 16/0. I don't think anyone was using AV grenades, which may have been a mistake, but what are AV weapons for anyway? As a single heavy with a solid swarm launcher or forge gun, I should be able to take out even the heaviest tanks if my team protects me and I can land at most three solid shots, but that's just not what's happening. People are dropping in with tanks and receiving complete immunity. I think the AV weapons need to change more than the tanks. Right now AV weapons, particularly the swarm launcher, are already pointless against infantry anyway, and tanks shouldn't be afraid of sniper rifles and HMGs.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.08.24 16:11:00 - [14] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Swarms are definitely OP. If the Militia SL can kill a Gunnology single-handed, it is so far beyond OP it is fundamentally flawed. And yes, this is not mere speculation. I HAVE killed a Gunnology, with the heavy/SL starter fit. This is not really possible. I drive a gunloggi and I don't even move if a militia swarm is shooting me. I don't fear them at all. If a militia swarm is taking out a gunloggi, then the gunloggi was fit horribly and that is user error on the driver's part. A single militia swarm does about 400-500 damage after resistancse are applied. The damage is so small I can easily tell that it is a militia swarm and not standard. The two shot + reload makes them a complete joke. I can almost passively rep up that damage in an active tank while your swarms are reloading. You can take all of your shots at me before I even consider turning on my booster in a well fit/skilled gunloggi. Actually that's all Swarm Launchers. There is no damage increase at all for higher tier versions. Just an extra missile for advanced and two for prototype. The militia version just needs to be reloaded after 2 salvos instead of 4. If you're shrugging off militia swarms, then you're going to shrug off all swarms. I might be able to give you pause with the Weaponry skill maxed out and a light damage mod, but swarms are generally underpowered verses decent tanks. What we need is an anti-lock on countermeasure for LAVs and dropships; something to give them more of a fighting chance without nerfing them vs. tanks. Forge gunners or the necessary teamwork to take out a good tank with swarms and AV 'nades are both pretty rare on the field still.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.24 16:13:00 - [15] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Swarms are definitely OP. If the Militia SL can kill a Gunnology single-handed, it is so far beyond OP it is fundamentally flawed. And yes, this is not mere speculation. I HAVE killed a Gunnology, with the heavy/SL starter fit. I hopped on top of a gungoli and spammed on top of it.
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2012.08.24 16:48:00 - [16] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: What we need is an anti-lock on countermeasure for LAVs and dropships; something to give them more of a fighting chance without nerfing them vs. tanks. Forge gunners or the necessary teamwork to take out a good tank with swarms and AV 'nades are both pretty rare on the field still. LAVs are already pretty hard to target with their ability to move through cover, and are mobile enough they can avoid swarm launchers if the drivers are smart. Otherwise I'd be all for it. If I'm wrong and smart drivers are still vulnerable to swarm launchers and I'm just terrible at operating them against LAVs, then I'm still all for it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.08.24 16:56:00 - [17] - Quote Swarm Launchers in the last build, if you figured out the basics, were REALLY easy to exploit. I could easily get them to pull MUCH tighter than 90-Ü turns, I could make them hit targets I'd only seen for a fraction of a second as they sped around a corner, I could make my shots look like they were coming from almost anywhere I wanted the enemy to be shooting in about a 100m radius around my position, meaning I could effectively be invisible and invulnerable to most tanks when I was performing well. Current build, the missiles DO have a short direct-flight time before following the lock, but it's not as long as it used to be, and you have a VERY tight window after looking away before you lose your lock, so you can't pull some of the crazier tricks I used to manage, and most of the things I used to do take more skill now (I can still do a lot with them though). EDIT: By the way, I soloed several Gunnlogis with Militia Swarms in the last build. I've only soloed one so far this build, and it was a LOT tougher than before.
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2012.08.24 17:12:00 - [18] - Quote Goric Rumis wrote: Knarf Black wrote: What we need is an anti-lock on countermeasure for LAVs and dropships; something to give them more of a fighting chance without nerfing them vs. tanks. Forge gunners or the necessary teamwork to take out a good tank with swarms and AV 'nades are both pretty rare on the field still. LAVs are already pretty hard to target with their ability to move through cover, and are mobile enough they can avoid swarm launchers if the drivers are smart. Otherwise I'd be all for it. If I'm wrong and smart drivers are still vulnerable to swarm launchers and I'm just terrible at operating them against LAVs, then I'm still all for it. They will only follow the lavs around stuff if the missles are very close to hitting them because they follow the most direct path to the object. If they are just a little bit further away, then they will hit the object, building, or whatever. However, they can be outran if there is a long enough stretch and the swarm users sharpshooting was low, or a dropship can become nearly invincible to them if they are always moving fast. Although if you want, LAV's can be beefed up fairly well and can take multiple hits from non militia swarms if you have the sp and isk to throw around. There was one from last build that I could unload all four of my advanced swarms into it and it would still be driving around.
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2012.08.24 17:52:00 - [19] - Quote SLs are only powerful against basic tanks (good) and dropships (bad), so I'd suggest that dropships get an automatic lock-on warning device with approximate directional information. That will strengthen the SL as an area-denial weapon and hurt dropship pilots who don't react quickly enough. I don't want dropships to be able to outmaneuver rockets. But I'd like them to be able to run away quickly enough to avoid taking more than 3 volleys. Afterwards the ground forces can clear the anti-air threat and the dropship can continue it's duty. I found I can't make a viper tank 3 militia volleys, so those would have to be extremely cautious still. Sounds fair to me.
Norbar Recturus Algintal Core Gallente Federation 119	Posted - 2012.08.24 18:28:00 - [20] - Quote Tanks do not like Forge Guns. Swarm Launchers are for targets that move fast. If anything, the launcher has been nerf'd from the previous version because the missiles have a more "dumb" AI that guides them. As an aside: If you're a Heavy Suit and you're using a Swarm Launcher then you're doingitwrong.jpg. Swarms are Light weapons and designed for use by Scout and Assault suits as a man-portable anti-air system. Heavies should stick to using guns that actually work with their suits like HMGs and Forges.

Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.24 22:36:00 - [21] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Swarms are definitely OP. If the Militia SL can kill a Gunnology single-handed, it is so far beyond OP it is fundamentally flawed. And yes, this is not mere speculation. I HAVE killed a Gunnology, with the heavy/SL starter fit. This is not really possible. I drive a gunloggi and I don't even move if a militia swarm is shooting me. ... Then someone threw something else at it, but I managed to land 5 rounds of swarms on the gunology as it drove up a road, and got the +100 and 3 +50's for my trouble.
Ashe Kelly Doomheim 9	Posted - 2012.08.24 23:33:00 - [22] - Quote Norbar Recturus wrote: Tanks do not like Forge Guns. Swarm Launchers are for targets that move fast. If anything, the launcher has been nerf'd from the previous version because the missiles have a more "dumb" AI that guides them. As an aside: If you're a Heavy Suit and you're using a Swarm Launcher then you're doingitwrong.jpg. Swarms are Light weapons and designed for use by Scout and Assault suits as a man-portable anti-air system. Heavies should stick to using guns that actually work with their suits like HMGs and Forges. I actually believe it is just the opposite. Forge guns are better for fast moving targets. Because LAVs and Dropships can outrun missiles.
Evane Sa'edi Celtic Anarchy 62	Posted - 2012.08.25 00:36:00 - [23] - Quote Best to hit lav's as they are dropped on the field. they are slow moving so can be locked before hitting ground & you can get the kill bonus as well because the driver may only just got into the Lav or close by for spash damage. best to hit hav's from cover, height and distance. fire off multi-locked flights of missiles and relocate to a new firing point before they fire back.
Jonquill Caronite Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.08.25 01:09:00 - [24] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Swarms are definitely OP. If the Militia SL can kill a Gunnology single-handed, it is so far beyond OP it is fundamentally flawed. And yes, this is not mere speculation. I HAVE killed a Gunnology, with the heavy/SL starter fit. REALLY badly fit gunloggi... All that needs to be said to that... Either that or Militia Swarm with the best damage mods, and a LOT of persistence and nano-hives with a crap pilot in an open battlefield...
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.25 13:28:00 - [25] - Quote Jonquill Caronite wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Swarms are definitely OP. If the Militia SL can kill a Gunnology single-handed, it is so far beyond OP it is fundamentally flawed. And yes, this is not mere speculation. I HAVE killed a Gunnology, with the heavy/SL starter fit. REALLY badly fit gunloggi... All that needs to be said to that... Either that or Militia Swarm with the best damage mods, and a LOT of persistence and nano-hives with a crap pilot in an open battlefield... Probably somewhere in between. I used the Starter fit, with the militia Damage mod. No hive.
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.08.25 14:07:00 - [26] - Quote There's nothing overpowered in Swarm launcher, it's an AV-weapon and it works well only against vehicles. Besides it takes up your light weapon slot and thus limiting you to use SMG that downright sucks against targets 20m> away from you (which is what..? 90% of the time?) Tanks and other vehicles are means to support the infantry, not to act as some sort of moving invulnerable fortress of death for the lone wolfs. It's a job for the ground infantry to support the tank by taking down any possible AV-infantry and support builds should keep the tank repaired. Tank can be valuable asset for an attack, but alone it's just another target for swarm / forge gun.


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