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STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.23 21:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since scouts get the highest shield regen, give heavies the highest armour regen and go down in a similar way shield regen goes down from scouts.
Any thoughts |
Sees-Too-Much
332
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Posted - 2012.08.23 21:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Scouts are lone wolves of sorts, so they need so be able to survive by themselves. Heavies are made to work in groups, and should have a logi to rep them.
That said, you could just fit an armor rep to your heavy suit. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.08.23 21:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Since scouts get the highest shield regen, give heavies the highest armour regen and go down in a similar way shield regen goes down from scouts.
Any thoughts
no
negates the purpose of the rep tool tbh
and would just make gunfights extremely long if ppl didnt need to fit the passive modules to regen armor and the passive ones are just fine
giving a heavy super armor rep will take away some of the teamwork needed to play a successful heavy
heavies and logis go hand in hand with built in armor reps he wont need a logi tbh |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.23 21:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:Scouts are lone wolves of sorts, so they need so be able to survive by themselves. Heavies are made to work in groups, and should have a logi to rep them.
That said, you could just fit an armor rep to your heavy suit.
No one is suppose to be a lone wolf in this game. I generally chose armour plates because i have a logi with me but it's amarr made for (insert amarr god name) sake, they should have it built in |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 22:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Heavies are pure and simple, Buffer Tanks. They have a shitload of raw HP but can't do much in terms of repairing their own armor. This along with the lack of gear slots is evidence that the heavy is meant to be a buffer with support from Logistics and unable to sustain itself for very long. This kind of mechanic is very common in EVE and I rather like how it translated to Dust in the form of the Heavy suit.
In comparison to Scout, they are a sort of Speed Tank + Passive Tank. They avoid damage by moving quickly, and rely on passive shield regen to keep their shields up. They're very different tanking styles, each with their own pros and cons, but I think it works well for what it is mean to be.
So, no, I think how the heavy self-repair works right now is good, and they should not get an increase to armor rep speed. If you're having issues, stick with someone who carries a repair gun (I actually run a Scout with a repair gun and run around quickly repairing heavies such as yourself, because I know they struggle to repair their own armor). |
ThreeXB
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
7
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
No
Scouts dont start off with 700 shield like heavies 700 armor |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Since scouts get the highest shield regen, give heavies the highest armour regen and go down in a similar way shield regen goes down from scouts.
Any thoughts no negates the purpose of the rep tool tbh and would just make gunfights extremely long if ppl didnt need to fit the passive modules to regen armor and the passive ones are just fine giving a heavy super armor rep will take away some of the teamwork needed to play a successful heavy heavies and logis go hand in hand with built in armor reps he wont need a logi tbh
Right now shield tankes get a built in advantage. It wouldn't have to be a super high regen. Maybe start at below the assault's shield regen? Give ways to improve the idea instead of complete bashing |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 22:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
ThreeXB wrote:No
Scouts dont start off with 700 shield like heavies 700 armor
That too. Scouts have the lowest EHP in the game, meaning to counteract that they need to be able to quickly repair that HP. Heavies have the most EHP in the game, so they are not meant to be able to repair it quickly. I will however suggest the Heavy Type-II to you, it has less armor but more shields, meaning you'll be able to rep your HP slightly faster because shields obviously recharge more quickly that armor. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
A scout is designed to be eyes ears and fangs away from the group. He is to help the main group by causing distractions mayhem and over stress hostile forces. He is also to report enemy movement, targets, weapon load outs, inbound threats well ahead before the main group meets up to them.
Killing things is just a bonus |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maybe a passive bonus, but I think they should still have to equip the module.
One thing I think heavies do need is a light weapon slot in place of their sidearm. That might improve their versatility, which I think is Doe's main issue. |
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A scout is designed to be eyes ears and fangs away from the group. He is to help the main group by causing distractions mayhem and over stress hostile forces. He is also to report enemy movement, targets, weapon load outs, inbound threats well ahead before the main group meets up to them.
Killing things is just a bonus
LOL not how it is currently in the beta with the hit detection
scouts are ur main offensive unit in the beta lol
@ OP once again NO
as someone said heavies are buffer tanks and scouts also dont start off with 700 shields
just put some passive modules on and get a logi to stick with u |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A scout is designed to be eyes ears and fangs away from the group. He is to help the main group by causing distractions mayhem and over stress hostile forces. He is also to report enemy movement, targets, weapon load outs, inbound threats well ahead before the main group meets up to them.
Killing things is just a bonus LOL not how it is currently in the beta with the hit detection scouts are ur main offensive unit in the beta lol @ OP once again NO as someone said heavies are buffer tanks and scouts also dont start off with 700 shields just put some passive modules on and get a logi to stick with u
A heavy with an armor regen would still be less than the scouts shield regen |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
What about a bonus that you get for using an armor rep while in a heavy |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shields regen automatically. Armour doesn't. This is the way it has been, an shall be in many science fiction games / stories. Shields don't seem to have resistances. A Proto heavy can take a railgun shot, and just suck it up.
Perhaps a special type of lvl3 heavy suit might be introduced with balanced ehp considering regen... Something with 4 low slots for mad regen. Or sprint speed. Or whatever. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
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Posted - 2012.08.23 22:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
In Eve, armor does not regenerate naturally as it is physical based. Shilds regenerate on their own because they are energy based. I do not anticipate Dust treating this differently.
Also, scouts are designed to be the forward point of the team, operating behind enemy lines (to drop uplinks or to scout). While they will communicate with the team, they are often alone for extended periods of time. This can be referred to as "lone wolf" in that they won't have anyone around in these situations. For example, scouts have low signature so that they can disappear on the minimap easier and not be detected. This is meant to make them more stealthy by design.
This does not mean that they can't be with the squad, as they lend themselves to "sneak attacks" since they won't show up on the map. |
Altman Stormsinger
Doomheim
16
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Posted - 2012.08.23 23:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
i don't think this is the buff the heavies need.
give me a heavy beam laser that's somewhat effective at range and i think that'll be fine. |
Nagisa Zero
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.08.24 00:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Armor needs armor reps to repair. Shields regenerate passively
More Armor increases mass and slows you down. Shields don't affect your speed.
Using Armor allows for more/any damage upgrades. Shields allow for speed enhancements
In EVE, CCP has always set up for armor to repair with either armor rep modules or remote repair. I think how its currently set is perfectly fine and balanced. |
Chao Wolf
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
209
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Posted - 2012.08.24 00:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
My 0.02 isk give heavies damage resistance. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.24 00:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Chao Wolf wrote:My 0.02 isk give heavies damage resistance.
This^^^ even as modules it would be great |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 05:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Chao Wolf wrote:My 0.02 isk give heavies damage resistance. This^^^ even as modules it would be great
Right, because the 2000 EHP buffer just isn't enough defenses. |
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.08.24 05:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Since scouts get the highest shield regen, give heavies the highest armour regen and go down in a similar way shield regen goes down from scouts.
Any thoughts
I think armor should stick to being module repping only. It makes sense to have a shield recharge, but armor should require a module. Also, scouts don't have as many shield hitpoints as assaults, so that recharge is their only defense. The bigger issue is the hitboxing on the darn things that makes them so hard to land shots on. With that rectified, you'll see a lot less scouts trying to go toe to toe with frontline combat suits.
However, I do think it'd be neat to give Heavies a bonus to modules like repairers and rechargers to suit their role. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2012.08.24 05:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sorry gotta join the rest bashing this idea, the raw EHP on a heavy suit already makes it damn hard to bring one down, in many cases when I fight one I have to skirmish him, if his armor regenerated as fast as my shields i'd never be able to bring him down.
You could always use the type II heavy suit, it loses a bit of armor to gain nice shields that you can enhance, giving you EHP that regens. |
Jean-Henri
30
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Posted - 2012.08.24 05:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
there is a heavy suit with 300 shields and 500 armor base.
try mucking around with it... but just remember, heavies play in armor, so any skills you level for that shield suit, will do about as much for your other suits as armor skills do for a scout.... |
Sven Lindblad
11
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Posted - 2012.08.24 05:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well the lightweight armor rep is hardly effective. My suggesion is that they make a CPU/PG innefective heavy one for the heavy suit as the small buggers rep doesn't seem to have heavys in mind. |
Sven Lindblad
11
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Posted - 2012.08.24 06:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
I do agree with bashing innate regen. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.08.24 06:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
In EvE armour reps and shield boosters don't work passivly, but an undersized one uses so small of cap(eve's power resource) it can be left on(perma run). This seems to be what the dropsuits get, vehicles only get the other type.
So It would be nice if added
large shield booster: works like vehicle one but for dropsuits, more usefull for type2 assualt and heavy since scout has fast regen
small shield booster: adds set shield hp/sec like dropsuit armour rep, for vehicle in hav and lav size and for dropsuits
large armour repairer: like vehicle repairer but for dropsuits
Armour and Shield resistance modules for dropsuits
a dropuit damage control module, in high slot like the vehicle one
Resitances are hidden right now, in EvE armour had higher resistance then shields |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.24 06:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:In EvE armour reps and shield boosters don't work passivly, but an undersized one uses so small of cap(eve's power resource) it can be left on(perma run). This seems to be what the dropsuits get, vehicles only get the other type.
So It would be nice if added
large shield booster: works like vehicle one but for dropsuits, more usefull for type2 assualt and heavy since scout has fast regen
small shield booster: adds set shield hp/sec like dropsuit armour rep, for vehicle in hav and lav size and for dropsuits
large armour repairer: like vehicle repairer but for dropsuits
Armour and Shield resistance modules for dropsuits
a dropuit damage control module, in high slot like the vehicle one
Resitances are hidden right now, in EvE armour had higher resistance then shields
I really like this post. The current repair takes way too long and i have cpu/pg to spare |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.08.24 09:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Shield automatically regens on its own. Armor does not. If you want armor repair, fit an armor repper or have your friendly local logistics person (like me) repair you.
Something else: in this build, they added a readout that shows your damage effectiveness against your target. So far it seems to be 100% all the time, but this may mean that they're adding resistances against different damage types like in EVE. If that's the case, then shield and armor have different natural damage resistances and different weapons have different damage types. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 10:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
*facepalm* you people really are not getting the point that heavies are not meant to be able to operate on their own. The passive armor reps for a heavy are meant for maintenance only to deal with small amounts of damage, they are not however meant to allow a sustainable defense for a Heavy...that's what Repair Tools and Armor Repping Nanohives are for. This is the role Heavies play, and it's not going to change. The Type-II suit allows for a slight variant to the heavy, making it easier to be self sustaining since more of its EHP is shields.
This is all you're going to get, armor is not going to be the same as shields, that's the point. Armor is a buffer, nothing more, where shields are a sustainable defense system. Armor is for taking massive damage at once due to higher damage resistances, shields are for low amounts of damage over time. The only reason there are passive armor reps are so that people are not completely dependent on Repair Tools, but they are not meant to be used as a replacement. If you're that upset about not having faster reps on your fatsuit, use a Type II or use a different class of suit altogether. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.08.25 11:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
No
If you want armor rep put on a repper |
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